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Good 6-point socket and breaker bar, and apply force in small impacts instead of slowly ramping up: This makes metal creep more unlikely, so you won't round-off the nut.
A good ring spanner would be my 2nd choice. And an open end spanner my 3rd. I'd never use an adjustable for this.
If you need to hold the bolt while undoing the nut, I'd use a ring spanner on the bolt, and socket+breaker bar on the nut.
Never buy cheap tools, and -when possible- work on the nut and not the bolt.
Also, for assembly:
If you use a torque-wrench to tighten up, remember that torque is specified for clean and dry threads. If you have used WD40 or other lubricants, low friction can make you overtighten the bolt with the spec torque.
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(10-01-2018, 12:15 AM)Houtman_imp Wrote: Always buy high quality tools , I have a German socket set : Kampmann , bought 55 years ago and still perfect , also like the Gedore wrenches. Low quality tools will give busted knuckles , rounded nuts and bolts and LOTS of frustration. Buy tools ONCE !
i tend to agree with Houtman on this. What few tools I do have were pretty cheap, because i bought them for another random purpose, and i just snapped two wrenches trying to turn a bolt. what does that tell you? i'm not an especially strong guy. if i can snap a metal wrench, it wasn't a very good metal. I'd rather wait a really long time and buy one tool I can afford that will be with me forever than keep re-buying a bunch of cheap stuff. That said what i can "afford" is extremely limited, so I tend to do without tools entirely. There's no helping it.
(10-01-2018, 12:22 AM)SportsterDoc_imp Wrote: Crescent (or any other brand adjustable end wrench) have their use, such as plumbing, for which I own a 10" and 12". They would be better never (rarely?) used on motorcycle or automotive applications.
Use a box wrench or socket, whenever possible. Use an open wrench when not possible. A 6 point socket is much preferred to prevent rounding of the hex nut or bolt head.
Not having the correct tool can be costly.
When you do have a socket and breaker bar, keep CCW tension on the bar, as it will
a. reduce the chances of the socket slipping off the nut and
b. minimize the chances of the bar bouncing back at you
In the mid-ninties, my #2 son-in-law used my garage in Flagstaff to work on his VW hippy van.
He asked for help removing the axle nuts. The correct size 6 point socket, 3/4 drive breaker bar, with along pipe extension did NOTHING. He then borrowed a short (very short) brass wrench, designed for impact and smacked it with a 2# hand sledge and the nut broke loose the first try.
Excluding saws, a couple larger wrenches and hammers/mallets, all my tools fit in 4 drawers of a relatively small roll-away...not an extensive collection. When I closed Cycle Tuning Unlimited in the mid eighties, I gave away all my specialty tools.
The point is that a collection of proper tools does not need to be extensive.
Screwdrivers, good quality. Torx drivers, nut drivers, Metric hex drivers all optional. Caliper, feeler gauges, spark plug gauges, accumulate as needed.
Pliers, including long nose, diagonal cutters, wire strippers, Visegrips, and for electricians, Channellock arc joint pliers.
Sockets, hex bits (Metric & SAE), Torx bits, ratchets, extensions, breaker bars. Sockets: Start with 3/8 drive (8mm to 19mm) and add as needed.
Wrenches and L wrenches, Metric and SAE
These are what I consider very basic tools, which I keep in my truck (for insurance purposes, I keep an inventory):
Channellocks, 420
Diagonal cutters, Channellock 338
Vise Grips, Irwin 4LN 4” long nose
Screwdriver, Klein 603-4 #2 Phillips
Screwdriver, Klein 602-4DD 1/4" keystone demolition grade
3/8” extension, 10” Craftsman 44262
3/8” extension, 6” Craftsman 44261
3/8” extension, 3” Craftsman 44264
3/8” extension, 1” Craftsman 43537
3/8” sockets, SK 7mm to 19mm
3/8” Torx bits, Stanley T10-T50
3/8” Metric bits, Husky 4, 5, 6, 8, 10 mm, #2,#3 Phillips
3/8” plug socket, Husky 5/8"
3/8” ratchet, Stanley 7-85-715
10 mm ratcheting wrench, Kobalt 338397
These fit in two Klein pouches, tucked away under back seat with tow strap, jumper cables, tie downs, fastener assortment, foot pump, 8mm-19mm combo wrenches, spare fuses, multimeter, OBD2 tester.
(10-01-2018, 12:15 AM)Houtman_imp Wrote: Always buy high quality tools , I have a German socket set : Kampmann , bought 55 years ago and still perfect , also like the Gedore wrenches. Low quality tools will give busted knuckles , rounded nuts and bolts and LOTS of frustration. Buy tools ONCE !
Good point! Definitely do NOT buy cheap tools. Decent ones will pay for themselves.
If the roll-away in my garage is stolen or I need more tools than tucked away in my truck, my backup/spare tool bag has these (still limited to 19 mm):
Channellock 909 crimpers (USA)
Channellock 3017 long nose (USA)
Channellock 338 diagonal cutters (USA)
Channellock 908 multi wire stripper/crimpers (USA)
Crescent 10” adjustable end wrench (USA)
Channellock 357 end nippers (USA)
Channellock 369 linesman pliers (USA)
Channellock 430 arc groove pliers (USA)
Irwin 7R Visegrips (USA), Irwin 4LN Visegrips (USA)
Klein 604-3, #0 x 3” Phillips screwdriver (USA)
Klein 608-3, 1/8 x 3” screwdriver (USA)
Bondhus T9-T40 Torx L wrench set (USA)
Bondhus 1.5-10 mm metric L wrench set (USA)
Bondhus 0.050-3/8” fractional L wrench set (USA)
3/8 drive 1”, 3” 6” extensions, Craftsman 43537, 44264, 44261 (USA)
3/8 drive Craftsman 44373 #4 Phillips bit
Husky awl 693-239 (USA)
Klein 601-4, 3/16 x 4” screwdriver (USA)
Klein 600-4, ¼ x 4” screwdriver (USA)
Klein 603-4, #2 Phillips x 4” screwdriver (USA)
Klein 603-3, #1 Phillips x 3” screwdriver (USA)
Stanley 7-85-715 3/8 drive ratchet
Stanley 8-19 mm Metric combination wrench set/roll bag
SK Wayne 7-19 mm 3/8 drive socket set/metal tray (USA)
Stanley 16 oz ball peen hammer
Klein 603-6, #3 Phillips x 6’ screwdriver (USA)
Klein 600-6, 5/16 x 6” screwdriver (USA)
Klein 600-8, 3/8 x 8” screwdriver (USA)
For working on the CB, missing would be the larger wrenches and 1/2" drive sockets, but otherwise could do most of the work on it and then some.
I didn't really set out to use a crescent wrench for this purpose, it was just the only thing I had that was 14mm once the ratchet imploded. worked better than my fingers :-p.
Thanks for the rundown on useful tools. the problem with that list of course is that i won't be consulting it for possible a few years, because that's how long it's going to take me to be able to set aside money prioritized for that many tools. maybe in 4-5 years when i buy a second bike meant for wrenching.
(10-01-2018, 01:01 AM)jtopiso_imp Wrote: Good 6-point socket and breaker bar, and apply force in small impacts instead of slowly ramping up: This makes metal creep more unlikely, so you won't round-off the nut.
A good ring spanner would be my 2nd choice. And an open end spanner my 3rd. I'd never use an adjustable for this.
If you need to hold the bolt while undoing the nut, I'd use a ring spanner on the bolt, and socket+breaker bar on the nut.
Never buy cheap tools, and -when possible- work on the nut and not the bolt.
Also, for assembly:
If you use a torque-wrench to tighten up, remember that torque is specified for clean and dry threads. If you have used WD40 or other lubricants, low friction can make you overtighten the bolt with the spec torque.
I agree, but it's the one and only wrench left in my posession at this point. believe me I didn't set out to take an adjustable wrench to this.
otherwise, all good points echoed by the others here.
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(10-01-2018, 12:15 AM)Houtman_imp Wrote: Always buy high quality tools , I have a German socket set : Kampmann , bought 55 years ago and still perfect , also like the Gedore wrenches. Low quality tools will give busted knuckles , rounded nuts and bolts and LOTS of frustration. Buy tools ONCE !
I agree with some exceptions. I'm only going to use a torque wrench once or twice a year. For that I'm not going to spend a fortune.
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My thought is that Honda assembled these bolts using loc-tite. This essentially "glues" the bolt threads to the nut. When trying to remove nuts that are loc-tite installed, I generally use a socket and breaker bar (as mentioned above) with a backup wrench on the bolt. I put the breaker bar on the nut and apply light tension with my left hand, hold backup with my right hand, then with my 3rd hand strike the breaker bar sharply with a 3 lb sledge.
The sudden impact force will do a better job breaking the grip of the loc-tite than any steady tension. Don't just grab the wrench and pull as hard as you can. That way lies madness (and twisted off bolt heads).
On other applications, I've found that using an acetylene torch to heat the bolt cherry red will burn off the loc-tite and allow easy bolt removal. Depending on the location, however, this is not an ideal solution. Plan on replacing the bolts if doing this step.
Penetrating oil helps with rusty hardware, not sure it does anything at all with loc-tite.
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I use a “pursuader” it’s 2 feet of 2” galvanized pipe.
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(10-01-2018, 02:52 AM)dwcurton_imp Wrote: My thought is that Honda assembled these bolts using loc-tite. This essentially "glues" the bolt threads to the nut. When trying to remove nuts that are loc-tite installed, I generally use a socket and breaker bar (as mentioned above) with a backup wrench on the bolt. I put the breaker bar on the nut and apply light tension with my left hand, hold backup with my right hand, then with my 3rd hand strike the breaker bar sharply with a 3 lb sledge.
The sudden impact force will do a better job breaking the grip of the loc-tite than any steady tension. Don't just grab the wrench and pull as hard as you can. That way lies madness (and twisted off bolt heads).
On other applications, I've found that using an acetylene torch to heat the bolt cherry red will burn off the loc-tite and allow easy bolt removal. Depending on the location, however, this is not an ideal solution. Plan on replacing the bolts if doing this step.
Penetrating oil helps with rusty hardware, not sure it does anything at all with loc-tite. I removed the engine mount bolts on my 2013, then again on my 2017. Neither time did I see any evidence that Honda used Loc-Tite on them. They're just torqued down a lot. Good penetrating oil (like PB Blaster) will help free up tight bolts, whether they are rusted or not. I would certainly not dissuade the OP from trying it.
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(10-01-2018, 02:07 AM)misterprofessionality_imp Wrote: (10-01-2018, 12:15 AM)Houtman_imp Wrote: Always buy high quality tools , I have a German socket set : Kampmann , bought 55 years ago and still perfect , also like the Gedore wrenches. Low quality tools will give busted knuckles , rounded nuts and bolts and LOTS of frustration. Buy tools ONCE !
i tend to agree with Houtman on this. What few tools I do have were pretty cheap, because i bought them for another random purpose, and i just snapped two wrenches trying to turn a bolt. what does that tell you? i'm not an especially strong guy. if i can snap a metal wrench, it wasn't a very good metal. I'd rather wait a really long time and buy one tool I can afford that will be with me forever than keep re-buying a bunch of cheap stuff. That said what i can "afford" is extremely limited, so I tend to do without tools entirely. There's no helping it.
(10-01-2018, 12:22 AM)SportsterDoc_imp Wrote: Crescent (or any other brand adjustable end wrench) have their use, such as plumbing, for which I own a 10" and 12". They would be better never (rarely?) used on motorcycle or automotive applications.
Use a box wrench or socket, whenever possible. Use an open wrench when not possible. A 6 point socket is much preferred to prevent rounding of the hex nut or bolt head.
Not having the correct tool can be costly.
When you do have a socket and breaker bar, keep CCW tension on the bar, as it will
a. reduce the chances of the socket slipping off the nut and
b. minimize the chances of the bar bouncing back at you
In the mid-ninties, my #2 son-in-law used my garage in Flagstaff to work on his VW hippy van.
He asked for help removing the axle nuts. The correct size 6 point socket, 3/4 drive breaker bar, with along pipe extension did NOTHING. He then borrowed a short (very short) brass wrench, designed for impact and smacked it with a 2# hand sledge and the nut broke loose the first try.
Excluding saws, a couple larger wrenches and hammers/mallets, all my tools fit in 4 drawers of a relatively small roll-away...not an extensive collection. When I closed Cycle Tuning Unlimited in the mid eighties, I gave away all my specialty tools.
The point is that a collection of proper tools does not need to be extensive.
Screwdrivers, good quality. Torx drivers, nut drivers, Metric hex drivers all optional. Caliper, feeler gauges, spark plug gauges, accumulate as needed.
Pliers, including long nose, diagonal cutters, wire strippers, Visegrips, and for electricians, Channellock arc joint pliers.
Sockets, hex bits (Metric & SAE), Torx bits, ratchets, extensions, breaker bars. Sockets: Start with 3/8 drive (8mm to 19mm) and add as needed.
Wrenches and L wrenches, Metric and SAE
These are what I consider very basic tools, which I keep in my truck (for insurance purposes, I keep an inventory):
Channellocks, 420
Diagonal cutters, Channellock 338
Vise Grips, Irwin 4LN 4” long nose
Screwdriver, Klein 603-4 #2 Phillips
Screwdriver, Klein 602-4DD 1/4" keystone demolition grade
3/8” extension, 10” Craftsman 44262
3/8” extension, 6” Craftsman 44261
3/8” extension, 3” Craftsman 44264
3/8” extension, 1” Craftsman 43537
3/8” sockets, SK 7mm to 19mm
3/8” Torx bits, Stanley T10-T50
3/8” Metric bits, Husky 4, 5, 6, 8, 10 mm, #2,#3 Phillips
3/8” plug socket, Husky 5/8"
3/8” ratchet, Stanley 7-85-715
10 mm ratcheting wrench, Kobalt 338397
These fit in two Klein pouches, tucked away under back seat with tow strap, jumper cables, tie downs, fastener assortment, foot pump, 8mm-19mm combo wrenches, spare fuses, multimeter, OBD2 tester.
(10-01-2018, 12:15 AM)Houtman_imp Wrote: Always buy high quality tools , I have a German socket set : Kampmann , bought 55 years ago and still perfect , also like the Gedore wrenches. Low quality tools will give busted knuckles , rounded nuts and bolts and LOTS of frustration. Buy tools ONCE !
Good point! Definitely do NOT buy cheap tools. Decent ones will pay for themselves.
If the roll-away in my garage is stolen or I need more tools than tucked away in my truck, my backup/spare tool bag has these (still limited to 19 mm):
Channellock 909 crimpers (USA)
Channellock 3017 long nose (USA)
Channellock 338 diagonal cutters (USA)
Channellock 908 multi wire stripper/crimpers (USA)
Crescent 10” adjustable end wrench (USA)
Channellock 357 end nippers (USA)
Channellock 369 linesman pliers (USA)
Channellock 430 arc groove pliers (USA)
Irwin 7R Visegrips (USA), Irwin 4LN Visegrips (USA)
Klein 604-3, #0 x 3” Phillips screwdriver (USA)
Klein 608-3, 1/8 x 3” screwdriver (USA)
Bondhus T9-T40 Torx L wrench set (USA)
Bondhus 1.5-10 mm metric L wrench set (USA)
Bondhus 0.050-3/8” fractional L wrench set (USA)
3/8 drive 1”, 3” 6” extensions, Craftsman 43537, 44264, 44261 (USA)
3/8 drive Craftsman 44373 #4 Phillips bit
Husky awl 693-239 (USA)
Klein 601-4, 3/16 x 4” screwdriver (USA)
Klein 600-4, ¼ x 4” screwdriver (USA)
Klein 603-4, #2 Phillips x 4” screwdriver (USA)
Klein 603-3, #1 Phillips x 3” screwdriver (USA)
Stanley 7-85-715 3/8 drive ratchet
Stanley 8-19 mm Metric combination wrench set/roll bag
SK Wayne 7-19 mm 3/8 drive socket set/metal tray (USA)
Stanley 16 oz ball peen hammer
Klein 603-6, #3 Phillips x 6’ screwdriver (USA)
Klein 600-6, 5/16 x 6” screwdriver (USA)
Klein 600-8, 3/8 x 8” screwdriver (USA)
For working on the CB, missing would be the larger wrenches and 1/2" drive sockets, but otherwise could do most of the work on it and then some.
I didn't really set out to use a crescent wrench for this purpose, it was just the only thing I had that was 14mm once the ratchet imploded. worked better than my fingers :-p.
Thanks for the rundown on useful tools. the problem with that list of course is that i won't be consulting it for possible a few years, because that's how long it's going to take me to be able to set aside money prioritized for that many tools. maybe in 4-5 years when i buy a second bike meant for wrenching.
(10-01-2018, 01:01 AM)jtopiso_imp Wrote: Good 6-point socket and breaker bar, and apply force in small impacts instead of slowly ramping up: This makes metal creep more unlikely, so you won't round-off the nut.
A good ring spanner would be my 2nd choice. And an open end spanner my 3rd. I'd never use an adjustable for this.
If you need to hold the bolt while undoing the nut, I'd use a ring spanner on the bolt, and socket+breaker bar on the nut.
Never buy cheap tools, and -when possible- work on the nut and not the bolt.
Also, for assembly:
If you use a torque-wrench to tighten up, remember that torque is specified for clean and dry threads. If you have used WD40 or other lubricants, low friction can make you overtighten the bolt with the spec torque.
I agree, but it's the one and only wrench left in my posession at this point. believe me I didn't set out to take an adjustable wrench to this.
otherwise, all good points echoed by the others here.
What is your budget?
What do you already have?
I have never broken a wrench, but have cracked a couple sockets, using standard sockets on a pneumatic impact wrench...or a very long cheater bar.
Some nuts/bolt heads may not be accessible without sockets/spanners, but considering the $, I would first focus on a decent socket set.
When using a cheater bar or mallet, a breaker bar is more durable than a ratchet.
My sockets are Craftsman (older USA), SK Wayne (quality, probably close to Houtman's), Kobalt (Lowes) and Husky (Home Depot) before the made in China years.
Since Stanley purchased Craftsman, once they are again made in the USA, I would use them or Kobalt or Husky, as they are lifetime warranty.
What brand 14 mm wrench did you break?
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If you want to ride to Charlotte you can borrow any tools you need for this job including the torque wrench. Also, most auto parts store will let you borrow pretty much any tool. If you wanna get it done go borrow the tools from an oreilys or advanced.
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a lucky break!! One of the installers that works for my company had a powerful impact drill. he dropped by my place after work, i gave him a socket and he went ham on the bolts. they came right off, no problem then. i assembled the sliders and he even tightened them back up for me.
Thanks to riggies for the offer to use tools, but i have a policy about touching things i'm not qualified to touch and can't afford to replace.
One thing i'm wondering, now that the bolts are off, is that the original bolts have a strange crusty white residue all around them. I have no idea what it is, but it seems like a thorough coating. is this something i'm supposed to have applied to the new bolts?
for a quick reply to Sportsterdoc, my existing tools consist of some random sockets and now only one small ratchet, a few random crescent wrenches, and various other doodads i've had to buy, like an oil filter wrench, ect. all of the sockets and metal wrenches are some off-label walmart brand. they're garbage, but they're what I was willing to spend at the time ( i didn't buy them for working on motorcycles).
oh, and i forgot to mention, though it's not related too much to this post, i also have a trusty dremel, soldering iron, and i just picked up a little propane torch for an unrelated aluminum project.
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