Cylinder Plating?

[the Ferret]

Everyone assumes that our bikes will go 100,000+ miles, but how many of us every actually own and ride a bike that long?
If none of us are riding them that much or long, what's the point building them to last?

Chris I can tell you over on the ST 1300 forum they give out a 100,000 mile award for putting that mileage on a single bike. There have been a lot of them handed out. There are also riders who have gone 200,00 and 300,000.

I imagine it's much the same over on the GL forums.

There is a girl called FZ-1girl who has put 200,000 + miles on her 2001 Yamaha FZ-1 with only normal maintenance

http://fz1grl.net/2012/02/200000-mile-fz1/

True most of us never rack up this kind of mileage on a motorcycle because truthfully we don't keep the same bike and ride it long enough. I have a saying " most motorcycles aren't worn out, they're neglected to death"

[rboe]

Honda has made some "blunders" with oiling with its' engines over the years. The original V4's, V45 and V65 needed extra external oil lines to keep the cams happy. You guys may know of more examples. So I would not discount that they make design errors from time to time and simply cheapen the product.

[the Ferret]

Honda has made some "blunders" with oiling with its' engines over the years. The original V4's, V45 and V65 needed extra external oil lines to keep the cams happy. You guys may know of more examples. So I would not discount that they make design errors from time to time and simply cheapen the product.

All the examples you are citing though are 30 years old V4s.

BTW Here's my 85 V 65 Sabre

[url=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/theferret111/media/Honda_Sabre-1.jpg.html]


Honda tested the sohc motors and the gold wing motors for hundreds of thousands of miles with no problems I am aware of. One story related by a couple journalists stated they test rode prototype 750s from some part of California to another (hundreds of miles) under the express conditions that they were not allowed to drop them below redline. Then both bikes were torn down and were perfect inside.

[rboe]

I got out of biking in '84, got back into it about five years ago.......there are some gaps in the knowledge pool.

I was hoping you all could add to the data set and not point out that I was dredging up the long lost past.

That V65 was a beast!
This may explain a bit why I bought the CB1100.

[the Ferret]

Yes it was.. Too tall and heavy for me. I have dropped 3 bikes in my life. All 3 times my wife was on the back. One was the V65. I tried making too tight of a turn running too slow in a parking lot and over we went. No damage other than to my pride. My wife stepped off as I had taught her to do. The guy I sold the V65 to was thrilled and couldn't believe it had 30,000 miles on it. He rode away a happy man.

Honda did have some cam bearing issues with their 350/360 twins that was alleviated by extra oil lines, but I'm not sure if it was an oiling issue or a cheap bearing issue. it wouldn't show up for years and thousands of miles, but eventually did present itself if you put enough miles on one.

[Red Mist_imp]

I got out of biking in '84, got back into it about five years ago.......there are some gaps in the knowledge pool.

I was hoping you all could add to the data set and not point out that I was dredging up the long lost past.

That V65 was a beast!
This may explain a bit why I bought the CB1100.

So you of course remember the Freddie Spencer commercial...
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGfJ9IqXcoE&list=PLCC6D22094506EDB6&index=5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGfJ9IqXc...B6&index=5

[the Ferret]

Hijack! Hate to but this vid is so cool

My favorite Freddie Spencer vid

[url=http://youtube.com/watch?v=OAMm0GMghN8&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DOAMm0GMghN8]http://youtube.com/watch?v=OAMm0GMghN8&d...AMm0GMghN8

[calamarichris_imp]

No sighs, dude. In all likelihood, the CB11 is built to last. And I'm not asserting that it isn't, just that Honda is no longer the paragon of longevity that it once was IMO.
It may simply be a matter of Honda very correctly reading the market: scant few sport bikes will ever see more than 50,000 miles, so it's foolish to build them to last to 100K. And there's every likelihood that they are only doing that with their sportbikes, and not with the retro/cruisers like the CB.

I guess we'll find out at some point. And I might have learned more by then.

And that is why we embark on life. And on motorcycling.
As disgusted as I am by Honda's VTR1000F Superhawk, it will always hold a special place in my heart. I learned more from that POS than I've learned from any other motorcycle. Even my first bike, a little Harley 883 Sportster, (which went 20,000 miles farther than my first Honda without wearing out.)
(Though I learned even more from my college girlfriend Janet, seen here aboard that 1940's-era-Soviet-tractor-technology bike

Honda has made some "blunders" with oiling with its' engines over the years. The original V4's, V45 and V65 needed extra external oil lines to keep the cams happy. You guys may know of more examples. So I would not discount that they make design errors from time to time and simply cheapen the product.

All the examples you are citing though are 30 years old V4s.

BTW Here's my 85 V 65 Sabre

[url=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/theferret111/media/Honda_Sabre-1.jpg.html]


Honda tested the sohc motors and the gold wing motors for hundreds of thousands of miles with no problems I am aware of. One story related by a couple journalists stated they test rode prototype 750s from some part of California to another (hundreds of miles) under the express conditions that they were not allowed to drop them below redline. Then both bikes were torn down and were perfect inside.

All the examples you are citing though are 30 years old V4s.

BTW Here's my 85 V 65 Sabre

[url=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/theferret111/media/Honda_Sabre-1.jpg.html]
Honda tested the sohc motors and the gold wing motors for hundreds of thousands of miles with no problems I am aware of. One story related by a couple journalists stated they test rode prototype 750s from some part of California to another (hundreds of miles) under the express conditions that they were not allowed to drop them below redline. Then both bikes were torn down and were perfect inside.
Fascinating. Any links or text?
It's not just Honda resorting to such cheap marketing chicanery, it all of the manufacturers. About the same time they were learning how to make a motor last forever, they were also learning that it was foolish to do so; that marketing (and unsubstantiated anecdotal myth) was more important than engineering.
All of us Japbike consumers (and approximately all of the Harley riders) expect our motors to last "at least 100K", but none of us ride 'em that much. Why would any company squander the money & effort on the designs & materials when it's never asked to go that kind of distance? Sounds like a quick way to go broke.

[the Ferret]

The following is from Motorcyclist magazine, some of us got to hear
Bob tell this story in person at the AMA's Vintage Motorcycle Days in
2009:

In 1967, Bob Hansen was American Honda's national service manager. He
recalls the first time he heard about the CB750 while on a trip to the
home office in Japan to discuss products for the American market.

The CB750, which was just chosen as “The Motorcycle of the Century” by
Motorcyclist Magazine, was known around Honda as “Project 300”. Hansen
was taking a tour of the research and development department where he
was going to meet Soichiro Honda for lunch.

There was one section of the facility that was closed off to his
group. When Hansen inquired about the forbidden area, the guide told
him, “I can’t take you over there. We’re testing a new engine for a
big motorcycle.”

Hansen was intrigued. He guessed that Honda was adapting the 598 cc
twin-cylinder engine from the N600 automobile for use in a motorcycle.
That made sense since it was then the largest engine Honda built.

While seated to the right of Mr. Honda at lunch, Honda leaned over and
said, “Mr. Hansen, we are hard at work on a new motorcycle, a big
motorcycle, the King of Motorcycles.”

Hansen said, “Great—I just hope it’s not a twin!”

This went through the translator, then Mr. Honda looked worried. ‘Why
would you say that?’

Hansen explained that twins were seen as outdated and even the Triumph
was currently working on a triple. Hansen recommended a four-cylinder.

“We have experience racing four-cylinders,” Mr. Honda said.

Hansen replied, “Exactly.”

Hanging on Hansen's wall today is a framed letter from Honda. It
reads: Because it was your idea to Mr. Honda to build the four
cylinder CB750, we are sending you the very first pictures of the
production version.

In the fall of 1968, three CB750s were sent to the Nevada desert for
testing along with a van full of tools and Japanese engineers. Hansen
hand-picked two of his staff, Bob Jameson and Bob Young, to
participate in the testing.

The team ran from Boulder city to Searchlight 50 miles each way for
nearly 5000 miles in 5 days. Their only directive was to never leave
the red zone on the tach. They tried to see what would break first on
the new motorcycles.

Nothing broke.

Jameson was blown away. “It was a total breakthrough in motorcycling.
At that time I’d ridden just about everything. These first CB750s were
like going straight from the Stone Age into the Computer Age. And they
were so fast!”

Bob died in his sleep last night. He was 93.
Sorry took me a while to find it online. Read the original article on it years ago. ...and it appears it was in Nevada and not California.

the Honda S600 sports car btw was chain driven, not sure about the N600 would have to do some research.

[rboe]

Many Goldwing riders take their Wings to over 100,000 miles and I've used to see SOME 750's with very high miles; only one above 100,000. While I agree that most riders trade off or crash their bikes before 100,000 there are enough guys doing it (right now I'm more familiar with Guzzi riders taking their machines into stupid high mileage numbers) that I tend to think they are built to put the miles on. Mistakes can be made, but it appears to me the intention is to build a high quality machine that can go the distance.