Cylinder Plating?

[dave]

23 years ago I asked the BMW factory tech what wears out on my K75RT. He said the rider wears out! 24 years latter he was correct! The bike still has lots of life, more than I have.


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BMW is not motorraadfabriek it once was. I wouldn't trade your K75 for three of the new F800STs.

There's a guy over on the Nighthawk site with over 250K miles on his CB750. The engine has never been apart.

And Honda is not the quality-control powerhouse that it once was either. I predict that CB750 will outlast more than a few CB1100s.

I have seen plenty of Honda car engines apart with well over 150k miles on them and you can still see honing marks in the good old fashion iron sleeves they use in there cars.

The people and processes that produced Honda automobiles in the 1970's are not necessarily the same people & processes that are currently producing Honda motorcycles.

Judging from past Honda inline 4 air cooled motors, Im guessing 100,000 miles or more.

If I had a nickel for every misguided squid who said that about his crotch-rocket disposabike with electroplated cylinders bored into the top half of his crankcase...

BMW is not motorraadfabriek it once was. I wouldn't trade your K75 for three of the new F800STs.

There's a guy over on the Nighthawk site with over 250K miles on his CB750. The engine has never been apart.

And Honda is not the quality-control powerhouse that it once was either. I predict that CB750 will outlast more than a few CB1100s.

I have seen plenty of Honda car engines apart with well over 150k miles on them and you can still see honing marks in the good old fashion iron sleeves they use in there cars.

The people and processes that produced Honda automobiles in the 1970's are not necessarily the same people & processes that are currently producing Honda motorcycles.

Judging from past Honda inline 4 air cooled motors, Im guessing 100,000 miles or more.

If I had a nickel for every misguided squid who said that about his crotch-rocket disposabike with electroplated cylinders bored into the top half of his crankcase...
I don't really understand what you are trying to say here... "electroplated cylinders bored into the top half of his crankcase" As opposed to the bottom half of the crankcase? "Bored" cylinders as opposed to broached? Do you understand what is required for long life piston/ cylinder life?

Hi Dakota.
Electroplated cylinders bored into the top half of the crankcase, as opposed to a distinct cylinder block, which is then bolted to the top half of the crankcase. Honda was the first of the Big-4 who started doing this, and they touted "lighter weight", "reduced gasket interfaces", "17% stiffer", etc.
Honda now does this to nearly all of their sportbike lineup, but it's not a good idea IMO, and here's why: when you wear out a cylinder block, you can replace it--just bolt a new one on, replace the piston rings and a few other parts. But when you wear out the cylinders bored into the top half of a crankcase, you must replace that entire crankcase, the crankbearings, and many other non-transferrable parts--essentially the entire engine.
Crankcases are drilled and finished as sets, so you cannot simply replace the top half.

I found myself in this unfortunate situation with a '98 Honda Superhawk after only 50,000 miles, the cylinders had worn egg-shaped. I always used Honda synthetic oil, was meticulous in maintenance, and rode it conservatively.



Fortunately the CB11 appears to have a distinct cylinder block, but I'd like to know if those cylinders are electroplated, sintered, sleeved...? Honda has every incentive to go the cheap route (electroplating), like they did with my Superhawk: what's the point of building an engine that will last 100,000 miles if no one is riding them that much? It therefore makes more sense to reduce production costs, let the marketing guys accentuate the positive aspects of the new cost-saving (to them) features, and a few years from now, when a small minority of your customers have worn out their cost-saving design, they can be easily dismissed as anecdotal/abberations, because that was years ago and people are easily distracted by shiny magazine pictures of the next big thing.
Everyone assumes that our bikes will go 100,000+ miles, but how many of us every actually own and ride a bike that long?
If none of us are riding them that much or long, what's the point building them to last?

Hi Dakota.
Electroplated cylinders bored into the top half of the crankcase, as opposed to a distinct cylinder block, which is then bolted to the top half of the crankcase. Honda was the first of the Big-4 who started doing this, and they touted "lighter weight", "reduced gasket interfaces", "17% stiffer", etc.
Honda now does this to nearly all of their sportbike lineup, but it's not a good idea IMO, and here's why: when you wear out a cylinder block, you can replace it--just bolt a new one on, replace the piston rings and a few other parts. But when you wear out the cylinders bored into the top half of a crankcase, you must replace that entire crankcase, the crankbearings, and many other non-transferrable parts--essentially the entire engine.
Crankcases are drilled and finished as sets, so you cannot simply replace the top half.

I found myself in this unfortunate situation with a '98 Honda Superhawk after only 50,000 miles, the cylinders had worn egg-shaped. I always used Honda synthetic oil, was meticulous in maintenance, and rode it conservatively.



Fortunately the CB11 appears to have a distinct cylinder block, but I'd like to know if those cylinders are electroplated, sintered, sleeved...? Honda has every incentive to go the cheap route (electroplating), like they did with my Superhawk: what's the point of building an engine that will last 100,000 miles if no one is riding them that much? It therefore makes more sense to reduce production costs, let the marketing guys accentuate the positive aspects of the new cost-saving (to them) features, and a few years from now, when a small minority of your customers have worn out their cost-saving design, they can be easily dismissed as anecdotal/abberations, because that was years ago and people are easily distracted by shiny magazine pictures of the next big thing.
Everyone assumes that our bikes will go 100,000+ miles, but how many of us every actually own and ride a bike that long?
If none of us are riding them that much or long, what's the point building them to last? My 1998 VFR800 has 92,000 miles on it and it runs great. I check the valves at regular intervals and they have only needed adjustment three times so far. The engine still seems tight, and doesn't burn a drop of oil. Now if I could only say the same thing about the charging system (replaced regulator/rectifier 3X, alternator 1X) and the electronic speedometer sending unit (replaced 4X).