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(12-01-2018, 06:07 AM)GoldOxide_imp Wrote: (12-01-2018, 04:40 AM)Nightengale_imp Wrote: Harley's are a dime a dozen here, tons and tons of them for sale. But not particularly cheap or in my mind, "good deals" to be had. No, I don't want one. Just wonder why there are so MANY on the market. The CB1100 however, is a seriously underappreciated machine. Unlike the other air-cooled motors, this modernized bike is a real gem with great engineering and attention to detail. But it doesn't have the appeal of other designs, which is all in the eye of the beholder.
My '14 Standard has depreciated since I traded for it, but not in my eyes. I could care less about having the latest road machine when this one does it all and has a cool nostalgic factor too that will never go away. Recently installed SW-Motech pannier racks and picked up a set of Mosko Moto Backcountry panniers and duffel. Should be good to go. And I've got a Garmin 595LM enroute to me which I'm looking forward to. These add-ons will make the bike a great tourer for paved surfaces. It gets appreciative looks and comments from people wherever it's parked.
I think motorcyclist are fickle, but just like car owners, it's beholden to what you "think" is right for you. They all work, but if they don't have the whiz-bang newfangle doodad that turns your crank a bit faster, then it's not deemed as desirable or valuable. The cool thing about the CB1100 is they did almost everything right on the bike (hydraulic valves would've been nice). You can dress it up, deck it out, increase HP, make is sound cool for not much money, but it doesn't "need" anything either.
I've toyed several times with getting something else, but seriously, I go take another ride or just another look at the CB1100 in the garage and think, "I'd be nuts to sell this" because it pushes all the right buttons (for me). I've done a few other mods not mentioned and it's seriously "just right" now. The only thing I wish for now is the ice to disappear so I can go riding again.
HD not cheap? How much cheaper can you get than a dime a dozen? 
HD not cheap? How much cheaper can you get than a dime a dozen?
My prediction is HD will file for bankruptcy (for the second time) in the next 3-5 years. They only survived last time because the government bailed them out by putting a $1,000 tariff on all Japanese imports over 750 cc. in the mid 80's. The hard core "buy American Harley bikers" are dying off and the new generation of riders has no desire for them. Now that they are moving production to Asia, even the "buy American" them is gone. I was at a motorcycle auction a couple months ago and was a low mileage V-rod for for $3,500.
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Asian production is for the local asian market; no need to panic yet on that particular "buy American" theme. However; their foreign parts content has been very high for years.
HD is also taking the future a lot more seriously than back in the early 80's as they explore smaller bikes and the electric market. Way too early to stick a fork in them. It certainly won't be easy for them though and the problems they face are bigger than what they can probably survive in the long run - at least as a gas engine powered toy manufacturer.
It won't directly affect those of us here; but it was pointed out to me this summer that the date 2100, a common line in the sand date for long term predictions on climate change (and the latest dire predictions have moved that date up); for the first time there are people alive today that will be around in 2100. Not us, but our grandchildren. It will be a very different world. Happy Monday!
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HD definitely has the marketing might to reinvent themselves. It may be more about the will of should they? An analogy is McDonald's Big Mac and Quarter Pounder & Cheese. These are McD's classics, and many of us still clamour for them. But the later generations may not, and McD has attractive modern offerings. If HD ever did a modern day Honda, "You meet the nicest people on a Honda" type of marketing gig, but maybe uber cool, or something "Apple intelligent", or whatever similar ... they could really carve out a new market share.
Japan did it to the world (especially in the U.S.) with the likes of the CB160 during the 60's. The Chinese could very well do it to everyone with some "qool electric thang" that hasn't been thought up yet and command unexpected market share. HD with its ultra high quality standard could offer a very sexy "Apple-like" offering that sets the bar high.
Can HD handle both the cool and geek product images? If they could, they may be unstoppable.
If this were to ever happen, how might the likes of Honda respond? (no need to respond to question)
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Just an FYI.
A 2014 described as excellent with 18k miles just showed up on Craigslist for $4000.
https://palmsprings.craigslist.org/mcy/d...29936.html
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( ... in $Canadian that would be a no-brainer opportunity. )
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(12-03-2018, 02:00 PM)GoldOxide_imp Wrote: HD definitely has the marketing might to reinvent themselves. It may be more about the will of should they? An analogy is McDonald's Big Mac and Quarter Pounder & Cheese. These are McD's classics, and many of us still clamour for them. But the later generations may not, and McD has attractive modern offerings. If HD ever did a modern day Honda, "You meet the nicest people on a Honda" type of marketing gig, but maybe uber cool, or something "Apple intelligent", or whatever similar ... they could really carve out a new market share.
Japan did it to the world (especially in the U.S.) with the likes of the CB160 during the 60's. The Chinese could very well do it to everyone with some "qool electric thang" that hasn't been thought up yet and command unexpected market share. HD with its ultra high quality standard could offer a very sexy "Apple-like" offering that sets the bar high.
Can HD handle both the cool and geek product images? If they could, they may be unstoppable.
If this were to ever happen, how might the likes of Honda respond? (no need to respond to question)
I'm going to get a lot of hate for this, but I just don't think the key for HD is in marketing a product based on "quality" when the motorcycle market on the whole does not really view them as a quality product. they're trounced in terms of reliability by the reputation of almost every available japanese manufacturer. BMW still manages to plug right along and sell a lot of machines without having a reliability to match japanese products, and they also sell at a price point that is comparable to HD products, so the bigger question to ask is why do they get sales where HD fails? I think the answer is that HD must do one of two things: beat japanese prices in North America (never going to happen) or build bikes that are so new and advanced that they make the latest BMW look like a radio flyer wagon. They need new engines, new form factors, new frames, new tech in all aspects in order to compete. couple that with a marketing campaign that goes like "The Original Innovators" and you could see a revival of American motorcycles.
From what i can see they're really trying to get that done over the next couple of years. we'll see. they're going to have to keep the price in line with comparable Euro models in order to keep it from flopping, though.
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You are not getting hate from me as I think that you are right on most of your points. I would never buy a HD but I very much hope that they stay in business as they also are very important to the after market suppliers ; just think of oil , tires etc.
Hopefully they are right on with the electric bikes they hope to bring out.
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I respectfully disagree with misterprofessionality on several points, but that's okay. I think HD absolutely markets its products on quality (whether the buying public has the same perception is a different argument) and I've seen no evidence which indicates they're any less reliable than a similar-sized Japanese bike or BMW. I'm unlikely to ever become a HD owner -- it's not my lifestyle -- but I don't disparage their products.
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I think of a couple old quotes:
" Harley doesn't sell motorcycles; they sell life styles"
"If Harley made an airplane would you let your family fly in it?"
And I think today, Harley makes more money on apparel than on bikes.
Another big problem they have is Indian. Indian is making some really nice bikes with modern technology and they are marketing the Sh&% out of them.
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(12-04-2018, 08:39 AM)superjim_imp Wrote: I think of a couple old quotes:
" Harley doesn't sell motorcycles; they sell life styles"
"If Harley made an airplane would you let your family fly in it?"
And I think today, Harley makes more money on apparel than on bikes.
Another big problem they have is Indian. Indian is making some really nice bikes with modern technology and they are marketing the Sh&% out of them.
My answer: NO ....ing way, I would
Sorry, but this is the best answer to this perfect question! 
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