Harley-Davidson closing Kansas plant

[Houtman_imp]

Wow. It's hard to imagine HD making the long term transition from their current old school V-Twin vibe of today to the electric bikes of the future with anywhere near the amount of marketing-driven success that they've enjoyed so far. It seems really weird to even think about to be honest.

+ 1

PB
HD would never have a spot in my garage...if given for free, I would immediately trade it in for Honda or something else...
....prehistoric design, noisemakers...

pb

+ 1

PB
HD would never have a spot in my garage...if given for free, I would immediately trade it in for Honda or something else...
....prehistoric design, noisemakers...

pb +2

[Acrobat_imp]

I'm really impressed from what I read here about dealerships at the places you live, considering the population of these places . Here in a small island of about 55000 people( 25000 in the city + villages), 30 years ago EVERY brand had its exclusive official dealer. Now one big shop for bmw, honda, triumph, Harley, suzuki, ktm-husqvarna, mv-agusta, ducati, aprilia. Another for Yamaha, piaggio. Small ones Kawasaki, sym, kymco, benelli, brixton, and some Chinese brands. And numerous small round the corner doing all shops. We have a reputation here as bikers. You can literally see any bike you can imagine here. By the way my big shop friend is about to stop being official bmw dealer due to unreasonable demands of mother bmw..This is pure decadence to me like as in most other aspects of our lives. I think moto-auto brands (like governments?) start forgetting the Alfa and Omega of their business: the customer. Can we do anything? We are tied up...

[Guth_imp]

Wow. It's hard to imagine HD making the long term transition from their current old school V-Twin vibe of today to the electric bikes of the future with anywhere near the amount of marketing-driven success that they've enjoyed so far. It seems really weird to even think about to be honest.

+ 1

PB
HD would never have a spot in my garage...if given for free, I would immediately trade it in for Honda or something else...
....prehistoric design, noisemakers...

pb

The point I was trying to make is that HD has done very well selling old-school bikes. One of the reasons for this is because they are able to market their strong tradition in the marketplace. They have a very strong, very long lineage to play off of. Those rumbling v-twins (whether sporting loud pipes or not) is the one of the single biggest components of the HD brand.

I don't have anything against Harley Davidson as a company. I like the fact that some companies still want to manufacture products here in the States. I think about stuff like this because lineage is a big deal to me personally. That's why I'm proud to say that the CB1100 is built in Japan. Even if the bike were of the same quality, if it was built in Thailand for example it simply wouldn't hold quite as much appeal for me. Especially given the specific type of bike it is — a tribute to Honda's heritage.

Even if HD were to build the best electric motorcycles in the world, there is still going to be a large part of their customer base that won't want to have anything to do with such machines. It would simply represent too large of a break from the image that they've worked so hard to cultivate. It will be very interesting to see how they handle such a move.

[Banned_imp]

Wow. It's hard to imagine HD making the long term transition from their current old school V-Twin vibe of today to the electric bikes of the future with anywhere near the amount of marketing-driven success that they've enjoyed so far. It seems really weird to even think about to be honest.

+ 1

PB
HD would never have a spot in my garage...if given for free, I would immediately trade it in for Honda or something else...
....prehistoric design, noisemakers...

pb

+ 1

PB
HD would never have a spot in my garage...if given for free, I would immediately trade it in for Honda or something else...
....prehistoric design, noisemakers...

pb
My "prehistoric noisemakers" has carried my wife and I for 112,000km completely trouble free.

Over the Rocky Mtns, across the Mojave Desert in the middle of July at 100mph all day long, Blue Ridge Parkway, Mt Washington, you get the picture.

Now it has a sidecar that carries my special needs daughter. That's a lot of extra weight and it never misses a beat.

I thought we were above this kind of slagging on this forum.

Perhaps I'm in the wrong place.

[Ulvetanna_imp]

Wow. It's hard to imagine HD making the long term transition from their current old school V-Twin vibe of today to the electric bikes of the future with anywhere near the amount of marketing-driven success that they've enjoyed so far. It seems really weird to even think about to be honest.

+ 1

PB
HD would never have a spot in my garage...if given for free, I would immediately trade it in for Honda or something else...
....prehistoric design, noisemakers...

pb

+ 1

PB
HD would never have a spot in my garage...if given for free, I would immediately trade it in for Honda or something else...
....prehistoric design, noisemakers...

pb
My "prehistoric noisemakers" has carried my wife and I for 112,000km completely trouble free.

Over the Rocky Mtns, across the Mojave Desert in the middle of July at 100mph all day long, Blue Ridge Parkway, Mt Washington, you get the picture.

Now it has a sidecar that carries my special needs daughter. That's a lot of extra weight and it never misses a beat.

I thought we were above this kind of slagging on this forum.

Perhaps I'm in the wrong place.

This post deserves a reply.

I never met a motorcycle I didn't like.

I"ve had three Harleys, enjoyed every mile.

There was thread about Cycle World going quarterly, Sport Rider failing, and so on.

H-D sees the future and is going to be way ahead of the game, because Millennials do not know, nor do they care, about things such as changing oil, adjusting valves, and all that. They just want to have fun.

It IS about LIFESTYLE now. H-D gets it.

When they get this electric thing rolling, they'll be selling the most classic American bikes on the planet along with the most advanced bikes on the planet.

That's just good business sense.

To W/R:

[SportsterDoc]

1. Build quality of Triumphs assembled in Thailand would be difficult to differentiate from build quality in Japan.

2. For those who dismiss H-D, have you ridden a stage one 2002 or 2003 Sportster 1200 Sport, with fully adjustable front and rear suspension, dual front discs, dual plug heads and ~80 foot pounds of torque?

https://www.totalmotorcycle.com/photos/2...r1200Sport

Back to the CB1100: Had a good 358 mile run today to Death Valley via Pahrump, Shoshone, Badwater, Furnace Creek, Stovepipe Wells, Beatty and back.

4011 mikes on the odometer. Changed the oil from GN4 to HP4S.

[Guth_imp]

I understand that the build quality of the Thailand Triumphs is top notch. But again, if I'm being totally honest I'd find the bikes more appealing if they were still built in England. If I was shopping for a Harley Davidson, I'd prefer that it be built in the USA. I'm glad that the CB1100 is built in Japan. That's not meant as a knock on bikes built in other countries. But if for me, that direct lineage to a company's manufacturing heritage is important, especially when it comes to bikes like Bonnevilles, CB1100s and most HD's where the company is banking on their heritage as part of the the appeal of these bikes. I understand that some people don't care about this sort of thing and that's okay. Everyone else is free to spend their money as they wish, that's as it should be of course. But when it's my money that I'm spending, I tend to pay attention that kind of thing.

As far as Harley Davidsons go, the only time I personally have found myself really tempted by one is when they released the XR1200R. I really like the concept of that bike, a visual tribute to the XR750. Had that bike featured at least 18" wheels front and back to give it a bit more of flat-track vibe I would have found much harder to resist. When Triumph slapped 17" wheels on the front of the Bonnevilles a few years back I was similarly disappointed. For that matter I feel the same way about the CB1100 RS. Not that it's a bad looking bike, it simply doesn't look retro enough for me. If I were to give up the 18" hoops I'd probably opt for the CB1000R (provided I could find a low enough seat for it that is, lol). That bike is probably as close as Honda is going to come to another Hawk GT.

Basically, if I'm going to spend my money on a motorcycle, it's definitely going to have to appeal to my visual tastes. I tend to be that way with all my vehicles. But when I finally do find what i like, I also tend to stick with my cars, trucks and motorcycles for a fairly long time (well over a decade on average). I realize that I tend to be an exception with regards to a lot of this stuff, but hey it works for me.

[peterbaron]

Wow. It's hard to imagine HD making the long term transition from their current old school V-Twin vibe of today to the electric bikes of the future with anywhere near the amount of marketing-driven success that they've enjoyed so far. It seems really weird to even think about to be honest.

+ 1

PB
HD would never have a spot in my garage...if given for free, I would immediately trade it in for Honda or something else...
....prehistoric design, noisemakers...

pb

+ 1

PB
HD would never have a spot in my garage...if given for free, I would immediately trade it in for Honda or something else...
....prehistoric design, noisemakers...

pb
My "prehistoric noisemakers" has carried my wife and I for 112,000km completely trouble free.

Over the Rocky Mtns, across the Mojave Desert in the middle of July at 100mph all day long, Blue Ridge Parkway, Mt Washington, you get the picture.

Now it has a sidecar that carries my special needs daughter. That's a lot of extra weight and it never misses a beat.

I thought we were above this kind of slagging on this forum.

Perhaps I'm in the wrong place.

+ 1

PB
HD would never have a spot in my garage...if given for free, I would immediately trade it in for Honda or something else...
....prehistoric design, noisemakers...

pb
My "prehistoric noisemakers" has carried my wife and I for 112,000km completely trouble free.

Over the Rocky Mtns, across the Mojave Desert in the middle of July at 100mph all day long, Blue Ridge Parkway, Mt Washington, you get the picture.

Now it has a sidecar that carries my special needs daughter. That's a lot of extra weight and it never misses a beat.

I thought we were above this kind of slagging on this forum.

Perhaps I'm in the wrong place.
I am glad that you like your Harley... be proud of it.....and keep it your way
Was not meant to hurt HD owners feelings...
Even if any kind of thing had multi problems per day, it becomes NO issue if someone just loves it...
Keep trouble free

pb

[infinite_ideation_imp]

Wow. It's hard to imagine HD making the long term transition from their current old school V-Twin vibe of today to the electric bikes of the future with anywhere near the amount of marketing-driven success that they've enjoyed so far. It seems really weird to even think about to be honest.

+ 1

PB
HD would never have a spot in my garage...if given for free, I would immediately trade it in for Honda or something else...
....prehistoric design, noisemakers...

pb

+ 1

PB
HD would never have a spot in my garage...if given for free, I would immediately trade it in for Honda or something else...
....prehistoric design, noisemakers...

pb
My "prehistoric noisemakers" has carried my wife and I for 112,000km completely trouble free.

Over the Rocky Mtns, across the Mojave Desert in the middle of July at 100mph all day long, Blue Ridge Parkway, Mt Washington, you get the picture.

Now it has a sidecar that carries my special needs daughter. That's a lot of extra weight and it never misses a beat.

I thought we were above this kind of slagging on this forum.

Perhaps I'm in the wrong place.

This post deserves a reply.

I never met a motorcycle I didn't like.

I"ve had three Harleys, enjoyed every mile.

There was thread about Cycle World going quarterly, Sport Rider failing, and so on.

H-D sees the future and is going to be way ahead of the game, because Millennials do not know, nor do they care, about things such as changing oil, adjusting valves, and all that. They just want to have fun.

It IS about LIFESTYLE now. H-D gets it.

When they get this electric thing rolling, they'll be selling the most classic American bikes on the planet along with the most advanced bikes on the planet.

That's just good business sense.

To W/R:

This post deserves a reply.

I never met a motorcycle I didn't like.

I"ve had three Harleys, enjoyed every mile.

There was thread about Cycle World going quarterly, Sport Rider failing, and so on.

H-D sees the future and is going to be way ahead of the game, because Millennials do not know, nor do they care, about things such as changing oil, adjusting valves, and all that. They just want to have fun.

It IS about LIFESTYLE now. H-D gets it.

When they get this electric thing rolling, they'll be selling the most classic American bikes on the planet along with the most advanced bikes on the planet.

That's just good business sense.

To W/R:
Personally I disagree that Harley gets it. I'm not attacking the people who ride their products, however I as a "millennial" don't mind the raw work characteristic that older people clamor about. Just about every conversation about young riders seems to stem from the notion that young riders only want fun and instant gratification, yet seem to forget that they were very much like that in their youth and it's a phase of life. However I'm not going to debate that, though back to Harley. Their marketing is very sub-par, and personifies a lifestyle characteristic of men attracting women with a cool factor. That's an image that I as well as many others felt should have died decades ago and it plays into a very negative connotation and stereotype against their brand that leads most people to believe all Harley riders are "that guy". Furthermore the brand is overpriced for their marketing demographic. You can't expect to target "millennials" with unrealistic expectations about their product AND make them unattainable at the same time. The icing on the cake is that a) the bikes are like boats, a hole you throw money into. They cost a lot to maintain and suffer lower production quality than competitors that are cheaper. b) the aesthetic of the brand appeals primarily to older riders - not a bad thing but plays back into the marketing. You can't expect to deliver a message to a group of potential buyers and not have a product thats both affordable and appealing.

Harley is investing a lot into the electric bike, but it's (imo) too late. Other brands have been doing it better and longer, and once the tech is mature others will follow suit. Harley's product will be expensive, Kawasaki/Honda/Yamaha, etc. will produce a subjectively better alternative and produce it cheaper. I personally don't want HD as a brand to die, but their marketing, style, price, quality and arrogance need to change before I'd ever consider their products. If you even compare HD to Indian, Indian is outperforming HD and offers fun retro bikes with better lineups and build quality. There's a lot that needs to improve, and this era for HD is most likely the make it or break it moment for them.

[Houtman_imp]

I personally like the looks of the Indians a lot more than the Harleys.
Also I am not a fan of the image most (not all) Harley riders project.
"loud pipes safes lives" but where is your protective gear to protect yourself ?