Design Disadvantages of the CB1100

[redbirds_imp]

Honda surprised everyone when they revealed their V4 this year. The excepted theory, seeing the woes that Ducati had with a V4, was that the new 1000 was an I4. Honda found a way to make the V4 not just work, but dominate the competition.

http://world.honda.com/V4-story/07/

[calamarichris_imp]

Strange that Honda has been dominating Motogp with a V4 to everyone's surprise.

Actually, I think the current Honda MotoGP engine is a V5.

The Interceptor came out in '83 just after the Magna was introduced in '82. I drooled over both but was a college kid with just enough cash for tuition and an occasional pitcher of beer. (Okay, maybe more than occasional.) I made due with borrowing my buddies GS750e and my future brother-in-law's '82 750SC Nighthawk. I still have a soft spot for that GS - tight and nimble and could rev to the moon - the Nighthawk felt a little heavy and rubbery by comparison.

Anyway, Honda was reportedly surprised by the market response to both those early V4 production bikes. They were trying to homologate the engine and bike for racing purposes and only wanted to to sell enough to get that done. The Interceptor went on to win Superbike for three or four years, I think, in the eighties. And they had to juice the production numbers of the street bikes to meet demand.

And they made it like that to take advantage of some GP rules loophole.
Is Rossi still racing? Really made my day when he dethroned Biaggi. Of course Biaggi and everyone said it was because he was riding the superior Honda. So Rossi made my day again when he jumped ship, went to Yamaha, Biaggi went to Honda, and Rossi still beat him like a rented mule.

If Rossi is the one doing the dominating on that Honda, it's through no bike advantage IMO.

Honda surprised everyone when they revealed their V4 this year. The excepted theory, seeing the woes that Ducati had with a V4, was that the new 1000 was an I4. Honda found a way to make the V4 not just work, but dominate the competition.

http://world.honda.com/V4-story/07/

Erm... the header in that Honda ad says, "The V4 Engine Story – 35 Years of Technological Evolution and Challenge”
And the only time the word domination appears in that ad is when Rossi was riding the V5. But when Rossi went to Yamaha, he dominated on that. And not only that, when Biaggi went from Yamaha to Honda, he kept losing to Rossi.

[redbirds_imp]

Yes, the Doctor is still in there after a disastrous couple of seasons with Ducati. Rossi had won the championship his initial year after switching to Yamaha and dominated his former team for the next few seasons. He left Ducati and signed back on with Yamaha last season but seemed to still be recovering from the Ducati blues. First Motogp test for this coming season was just completed in Malaysia and Rossi looked very fast, having recorded the second fastest times, being bested only by rookie sensation Marc Marquez who seems to be teaching all the old pros how to ride all over again. If you have not followed Motogp in a while, Marquez has caused quite a stir, winning the championship his first year at age 20, and displaying a style of dragging the knee and the elbow at the same time. Watching him do what seems impossible is a treat.

Honda surprised everyone when they revealed their V4 this year. The excepted theory, seeing the woes that Ducati had with a V4, was that the new 1000 was an I4. Honda found a way to make the V4 not just work, but dominate the competition.

http://world.honda.com/V4-story/07/

Erm... the header in that Honda ad says, "The V4 Engine Story – 35 Years of Technological Evolution and Challenge”
And the only time the word domination appears in that ad is when Rossi was riding the V5. But when Rossi went to Yamaha, he dominated on that. And not only that, when Biaggi went from Yamaha to Honda, he kept losing to Rossi.
[/quote]

Honda has won championships without Rossi the last few seasons. His dominance ended when Jorge Lorenzo, Dani Pedrosa and Casey Stoner came on the scene. These three along with Rossi were referred to as "The Aliens" because of their total dominance over the rest of the field. All but Pedrosa have won the Championship and have done so on three different brands which includes Stoner's championship on board the Ducati that no one else, including Rossi, could ever ride. Stoner switched to Honda and won the championship on it as well. Honda has been using a V4 since the demise of the 800cc class 2 years ago. Now a new Alien is on a Honda and he is a sensation. Rossi has not won a championship since leaving Yamaha but he is looking fast again and I always pull for the "old guy".

[davidsargee_imp]

I never get a tinking sound when I shut it off. If that's a design objective, their engineering fell short.

It's there, you have to wait for it, but it is there. You do have to get her warmed up though.

[calamarichris_imp]

Most of that cooling ticking noise comes from the expansion and contraction of the conjoined sheet metal within the exhaust system, especially within the mufflers.
Unless Honda has found some revolutionary method of conjoining sheet metal, I'm guessing that after a few hundred expansion/contraction cycles, the ticking should flesh out a little.

[davidsargee_imp]

All I can say is this bike seems like it was personally designed for me. It has more power than a sane person needs, and it can do, or be adapted to do, just about any type of street/road riding one might want.

As for advantages/disadvantages, I am an older, working class stiff, I do not have enough bank account for multiple motorcycles, (God bless you if you do, but I don't). I wanted a bike that not only looks and runs good, but is versatile enough to go for short rides, or to throw a couple of bags on and ride to the Grand Canyon, (plan to do that this spring, 2300 miles round trip). The CB1100 is by far the most suitable bike for my needs. I am going to ride it for years, take a few trips, etc. Once it is paid off, I might cafe it , then buy another bike for trips, maybe, or maybe not.

Disadvantages, I can't really think of any that matter. That's the point, just ride it, and see where you are when you stop.

This bike is what the gentleman from Australia, (among others), stated in an earlier post, it is a Gentlemans bike. Best UJM on the market, for sure.

Cheers

[calamarichris_imp]

Chris, How did you find out about Sintered Cylinder sleeves on the CB1100? The only other person that mentioned sintered sleeves on the CB is the late Kevin Ash. The combustion chamber design on the cb1100 is a pentroof design which is a step forward. Also, the casting on the outside cylinder head has passage ways to make sure all cylinders are cooled down.

I always thought if the engine is aircooled the block would be a closed deck design but the CB1100 is an open deck, there must be a reason behind this.

I really like the simplicity of this aircooled engine. I just installed Samco Hoses on my street triple R with 50K miles and it was a cuss to get to most of the hoses....

I bought the bike because it spoke to me and I didnt even bother to go into detail on how this bike was made... Just total attraction.

The only down side to me personally is the speed govern.

Speed govern...? But what if you need to flee a ticket?

I have no firm idea about the CB's cylinder block. Sleeves? Electroplated? Sintered? That's why I'm here asking questions.



I've seen a few olde-tyme motorbikes that had open-deck heads like this. It appears to offer some cooling advantages, but by the time we started figuring out aerodynamics, liquid cooled engines were becoming en vogue.

After the Superhawk, I'll never fall for another bike based on looks alone. I thought about buying a Guzzi years ago, but then I subscribed to a Guzzi forum. Those are some crazy-passionate people, those Guzzisti. It takes MONTHS to get parts from Guzzi (even in the Information Age), and some of them live in Minnesota where their riding season consists of about 2.5 months.

[AzBob_imp]

All I can say is this bike seems like it was personally designed for me. It has more power than a sane person needs, and it can do, or be adapted to do, just about any type of street/road riding one might want.

As for advantages/disadvantages, I am an older, working class stiff, I do not have enough bank account for multiple motorcycles, (God bless you if you do, but I don't). I wanted a bike that not only looks and runs good, but is versatile enough to go for short rides, or to throw a couple of bags on and ride to the Grand Canyon, (plan to do that this spring, 2300 miles round trip). The CB1100 is by far the most suitable bike for my needs. I am going to ride it for years, take a few trips, etc. Once it is paid off, I might cafe it , then buy another bike for trips, maybe, or maybe not.

Disadvantages, I can't really think of any that matter. That's the point, just ride it, and see where you are when you stop.

This bike is what the gentleman from Australia, (among others), stated in an earlier post, it is a Gentlemans bike. Best UJM on the market, for sure.

Cheers

That's not true and I really wish people would stop saying it. Whatever your reason for thinking so doesn't mean it has more power than anyone would ever need. I like my bike, but I definitely wish it had another 20-30hp for getting into the HOV lane without worrying if you're going to get crammed in the butt. On my CBR, that's not any kind of a problem, that thing's a missile. And I don't ride fast, not by any stretch of the imagination. I regularly get 50+mpg on the CB (and 40+ on the CBR). It's just those small occasions when I would really like the confidence of accelerating like I'm entering low-Earth orbit so I know I won't get rear-ended.

Otherwise, the bike is nearly perfect. Except for the hand grips. They suck a special kind of suck.

[calamarichris_imp]

All I can say is this bike seems like it was personally designed for me. It has more power than a sane person needs, and it can do, or be adapted to do, just about any type of street/road riding one might want.

As for advantages/disadvantages, I am an older, working class stiff, I do not have enough bank account for multiple motorcycles, (God bless you if you do, but I don't). I wanted a bike that not only looks and runs good, but is versatile enough to go for short rides, or to throw a couple of bags on and ride to the Grand Canyon, (plan to do that this spring, 2300 miles round trip). The CB1100 is by far the most suitable bike for my needs. I am going to ride it for years, take a few trips, etc. Once it is paid off, I might cafe it , then buy another bike for trips, maybe, or maybe not.

Disadvantages, I can't really think of any that matter. That's the point, just ride it, and see where you are when you stop.

This bike is what the gentleman from Australia, (among others), stated in an earlier post, it is a Gentlemans bike. Best UJM on the market, for sure.

Cheers

That's not true and I really wish people would stop saying it. Whatever your reason for thinking so doesn't mean it has more power than anyone would ever need. I like my bike, but I definitely wish it had another 20-30hp for getting into the HOV lane without worrying if you're going to get crammed in the butt. On my CBR, that's not any kind of a problem, that thing's a missile. And I don't ride fast, not by any stretch of the imagination. I regularly get 50+mpg on the CB (and 40+ on the CBR). It's just those small occasions when I would really like the confidence of accelerating like I'm entering low-Earth orbit so I know I won't get rear-ended.

Otherwise, the bike is nearly perfect. Except for the hand grips. They suck a special kind of suck.

In his defense, "enough power" is as subjective as "advantages" and "disadvantages." I used to think my little Harley Sportster had "enough power" before my first ride on a Japbike.
True story: I used to crush a lot of the bigger FXR Harleys in Pueblo, Colorado off the line with my little 883 Sporty. They had straight pipes, aftermarket carbs, had milled their intake ports so that they'd flow faster...
I later learned that this port smoothing and polishing was actually reducing their efficiency and slowing their bikes down. Turbulence is good for intake tracts, because it aids in the atomization of the gasoline droplets. Some of them accused me of running a sleeper (boring my little 883 up to 1200 and leaving the 883 emblem on the tank), but it turns out Mr. Harley and Mr. Davidson knew a little more about making a bike fast than they did, because my bike was stone-stock--even had the California smog equipment on the intake.
I later learned that Mr. Honda and Mr. Kawasaki know even more about it.

[Dakota_imp]

I thought that this would be an interesting thread titled "design..." yet there is not one bit of discussion on the actual bike engineering design. Three pages of nothing but meandering anecdotal blah blah blah.

The thread title probably could have been better. Why don't you start a discussion on what you want to discuss?

The thread title probably could have been better. Why don't you start a discussion on what you want to discuss?
I guess that I have a different interpretation of design "advantages" and "disadvantages". Nearly all of what has been presented is personal preference. I would love an engineering analysis of the design. However, this is probably not the correct forum.