We Test Ride The Scout

[the Ferret]

Its stamped into their engine covers..Indian 1901

I guess now that Norton is again shipping Nortons they can claim they are older than Harley as well since Norton made their first motorcycle in 1902.

Since Royal Enfield also started producing motorcycles in 1901 I guess that bumps Harley back to 4 th.

Now if someone would just produce another bike under the name Daimler-Maybach the THEY could lay claim to being the oldest motorcycle company

Or Hildebrand and wolfmueller ( worlds first production motorcycle)

Or Roper if you consider a steam powered 2 wheeler a motorcycle

[ClassicVW_imp]

I don't see a problem with the "1901" badge on the Indians, to me, they're trying to profit off the history, but they also are making some very nice machines that are true to the company's history while imagining what would have been anyway had the company continued seamlessly.

After all, Harley Davidson can claim continuous manufacturing history, but I wouldn't brag about those AMF years. They shouldn't even count!

[the Ferret]

'ClassicVW'

I don't see a problem with the "1901" badge on the Indians," they're trying to profit off the history,"

I get that and were I them, I would probably as well. It's disingenuous though if not decietful.

but they also are making some very nice machines that are true to the company's history

Visually anyway

while imagining what would have been anyway had the company continued on seamlessly

And never changed their styling

After all, Harley Davidson can claim continuous manufacturing history, but I wouldn't brag about those AMF years. They shouldn't even count!
[/quote]

At least with Harley, same tooling, same employees, same engineers..just different management.... And this is very important from a historical perspective...There has not been a year since 1903 when a customer could not walk in and buy a brand new current year motorcycle that had Harley Davidson on the fuel tank.

I understand my position isn't the " popular" position today, but I don't care about that, I'm not looking at it as a consumer, I am looking at it like a historian, someone who truly is interested and cares about the history and lineage of motorcycling.

These new Indians are no less or no more Indians than the S&S motored Indians Rboe railed about (or the several other attempts for that matter). All were made by people with a vision to resurrect the brand, using styling clues from the brand, with an intent to update, if you will, to what might have been had Indian stayed in business from 1953 to present, and licensed under the Indian brand name. Polaris has just done the best job of it so far. (probably the last and finally permanent attempt I am guessing). The trouble with imagining where Indian would have went with their design is, we have no way of knowing if HAD the original company stayed in business, in 2013 would their engineers still be drawing full valanced fenders and fringe, or would they have made something more along the lines of a Goldwing? Or a Motus ( that would be my vision for Indian). Would they have continued down the same exact path the Motor Company has, or would they have gone another direction altogether? Would they have stuck with cruisers, or changed with the times to something more standard, or sport touring, or touring, or sport bike? We just don't know. At one time it was thought Honda would produce nothing but 50cc step thrus and small displacement bikes. Honda shocked the world with it's 305cc twin with overhead cams. Maybe in 1968 when Indian saw the 750/4 their management and engineers would have said " we need something like that" to stay current. Can you say with any certainty that wouldn't have happened. If so, I think you might be short sighted. Indian once made inline 4 cyl motorcycles.

It doesn't take much knowledge of history to know that Triumph, BSA, Norton, all crumbled under the technology being produced in Japan. Harley Davidson came within a whisker of folding tent as well. If Indian would have been in business, would they have just sat back and succumbed? Or would they have competed with Japan? Was there enough cruiser business in 1970 to save two companies or would one of them be forced to change and adapt?

Of course it's all conjecture, but if Indian had stayed in business, I think we'd be offered something beside Harley or pre 53 Indian clones. Who knows maybe Polaris Indian will go another direction one of these days and offer up something besides a feet forward V twin. Something sporty. It would be nice to see Indian on the side of something modern. It would be a real shame to take Polaris's money and engineering might and waste it on designs that are stuck in the 1950s.

Can you tell I love discussing motorcycle and their history? Lol geez how do I get sucked into these discussions? I blame it on the German this time.

[rboe]

With a wee bit of luck we may find out. Polaris may find that the market is open to an Indian that does not look like an Indian but that was the Indian we all remember from our childhood (the motor is a side valve like the old ones; so this is a wee bit deeper than some cosmetic sheet metal styling queues). I really hope they bring out an inline four, longitudinally, to really break from the V-twin mentality.

If they do that that will give them some room to explore some things a bit outside the current Indian style.

Which makes me wonder if Victory is a bit of a dead end for them.

For me, having the same factory, people, jigs etc. is not all that important. It's the product. Todays bikes, at best, have a passing resemblance to bikes of old (in many cases, two wheels and a seat are all they have in common). But now we can say we have three major US brands making bikes again. Not niche machines, but major players (four if you count the Spyder but it has three wheels and I'm a wee bit biased against it).

I think that is darn cool and it's about time. Just need some diversity in the motor department. (and I happen to like V twins. but the sun does not rise and set on them).

[nhawk7504_imp]

I think companies are like cells in the body which are replaced every seven years. Is Honda Honda without Mister Honda? I have wondered this as well. The Indian Scout I test rode was very Indian Scout of old. Frame. Fenders. Bars. Seat. Just with a motor that is more modern for this Era. Part of the problem with Harley is that they are so Davidson if you ask me. Where the heck is the sport in the Sportster? POS frame and suspension. I lift a Harley of the side stand and it's like lifting a car. The Indians come right up. The Indian Chief motor looks old and yet it's new. Really nice machine. And they are selling well. Is Harley really Harley with the stockholders getting their face into it? Nah. Tons of overseas parts. Factories in other states. Meh. For the same money as getting your wife or GF on a Sportster you can get her a Scout instead. My test ride was awesome. I just happen to like the CB11 because I like inlines and it fits me better. "Heyaaa hiyaaa hiyaa hoaahah ...hiyah heyaa ahhh." Indian. Cool.