No 2015

[JustPassinThru_imp]

I would point out that many of the CB1100's competitors (retro-ish standards) are doing well in the market, and that the segment the CB sits in is a strong one. Bonnie still sells well, Ducati Scrambler, BMW R-9T both over performed sales estimates. Even Guzzi keeps rolling out new iterations of the V7. The CB's modest US market success, or lack thereof, IMHO, can be attributed to two things. 1) The CB didn't quite meet the expectations of the intended market, and 2) Honda didn't do jack squat to market it properly.

It's a great bike that we all love. But I went into the new Honda dealer that opened adjacent to the Triumph shop here in NJ, and there wasn't a single bit of evidence that the CB ever existed. Next door, a full set of Bonnies merchandise, posters, and people straddling the bikes on the showroom floor.

While I think the lack of marketing is the biggest factor, I would also add another element: the CB11 was at a little higher price point than most of its competitors which certainly played a role. History has proven that people en mass are willing to compromise quality for a cheap price (VHS vs Betamax, MS DOS vs. Apple OS, etc.)

You know...that depends.

You mention VHS versus Betamax. BOTH were new entries into a new market; and BOTH had superior quality to television or home 8mm movies. The VHS was cheaper, so since people didn't know whether quality would be worth it...they bought.

But compare that to autos or motorcycles. The VW Beetle, for much of its 28-year run, was more expensive than bigger Detroit compacts. But it sold; and with minimal advertising. People knew cars and people knew what a low-quality car was. The Falcons and Novas and Ramblers of the era were low-quality cars (and the Valiant was tarred with that brush, although it was of a higher caliber). So, people paid more for quality.

When the Yugo hit this country, people assumed a European import would be a high-quality car. And, lower price!...sold like crazy its first half-year; but word got out fast. Even though it was just a little more than half the price of a Japanese import, they couldn't give them away.

Same with cycles today. Chinese clone touring scooters have been around for eight years. Remember the VOG? A Burgman 400 clone, with a Yamaha 250 cloned engine. EXACT same styling as the Suzuki. Better economy. Except...the thing was garbage, and not just in assembly. Inferior casting and metallurgy caused castastrophic failures.

The VOG, made by Xingyue, is gone now...some importers still have warehouses full; but mostly they've moved on. But Xingyue never sold it under its own name. Even so...now that the Chinese are getting more serious, they cannot make headway. Their legend precedes them.

So...quality CAN matter when people PERCEIVE it matters. I don't think price-point alone can account for the poor selling of the CB. I suspect it's more that it's just us grey-heads who remember the big UJMs; the new riders all remember the Ninjas.

I like this statement for several reasons. My son has ridden my CB 1100 (in fact part of the way home the day I picked it up) and says it's a wonderful motorcycle, but if he were shopping for a new bike right now he would probably end up with an FJ-09 Yamaha. The CB just doesn't have the right look, horsepower or weight for him. (pretty sure he wouldn't mind me leaving it to him in the will though)

Conversely if my father were still alive and shopping for a new bike right now, I'm pretty sure I would find him at the Indian dealer sitting on a new Scout making vroom vroom noises. His first bike was an Indian Scout and I'm pretty sure on that appeal alone, he would be a buyer.

3 generations with 3 ideas of what a motorcycle should look like, how they should sound and how they should perform.

Wonder what kind of motorcycles grandsons Riley (2) and Tanner (4 months) will be into. probably make fun of their dads "retro" FJ-09 lol

Oh, wow. This nails it.

Now I've been down on H-D motocycles; and I've caught the flack for it. One poster here even, very gentlemanly, offered to meet up with me and let me ride his (while he evaluated my vibration problem on the CB).

I don't think I'm out of line with my opinions, or I wouldn't hold them. But the bottom line, for me, is that I have no history with H-D or cruiser cycles. My old man didn't ride. None of his friends did. Non of MY friends' fathers did. There were no Harley-Davidsons, or ANY motorcycles, in my neighborhood or my childhood.

I came to it in my twenties. A long story; but it involved a small town on Lake Erie; a wonderful summer, and a Yamaha R5C for sale for $200.

And I was hooked. The UJM was THE way to go.

Had it been different; had I been brought in with the H-D crowd

(which would have been hard; H-D guys were hiding, with their shameful secret love for what was then, early 1980s, a reeling company with an obsolete product which was likely to fail)

...had I started there, I doubtless would have entirely different tastes. I'd maybe see a CB; test-ride it...think, NICE...and go back on my Electra-Glide, to wherever Harley riders go.

It's impossible to separate tastes and early experiences and potty-training days and all that...

[Ghis_imp]

I would point out that many of the CB1100's competitors (retro-ish standards) are doing well in the market, and that the segment the CB sits in is a strong one. Bonnie still sells well, Ducati Scrambler, BMW R-9T both over performed sales estimates. Even Guzzi keeps rolling out new iterations of the V7. The CB's modest US market success, or lack thereof, IMHO, can be attributed to two things. 1) The CB didn't quite meet the expectations of the intended market, and 2) Honda didn't do jack squat to market it properly.

It's a great bike that we all love. But I went into the new Honda dealer that opened adjacent to the Triumph shop here in NJ, and there wasn't a single bit of evidence that the CB ever existed. Next door, a full set of Bonnies merchandise, posters, and people straddling the bikes on the showroom floor.

While I think the lack of marketing is the biggest factor, I would also add another element: the CB11 was at a little higher price point than most of its competitors which certainly played a role. History has proven that people en mass are willing to compromise quality for a cheap price (VHS vs Betamax, MS DOS vs. Apple OS, etc.)

You know...that depends.

You mention VHS versus Betamax. BOTH were new entries into a new market; and BOTH had superior quality to television or home 8mm movies. The VHS was cheaper, so since people didn't know whether quality would be worth it...they bought.

But compare that to autos or motorcycles. The VW Beetle, for much of its 28-year run, was more expensive than bigger Detroit compacts. But it sold; and with minimal advertising. People knew cars and people knew what a low-quality car was. The Falcons and Novas and Ramblers of the era were low-quality cars (and the Valiant was tarred with that brush, although it was of a higher caliber). So, people paid more for quality.

When the Yugo hit this country, people assumed a European import would be a high-quality car. And, lower price!...sold like crazy its first half-year; but word got out fast. Even though it was just a little more than half the price of a Japanese import, they couldn't give them away.

Same with cycles today. Chinese clone touring scooters have been around for eight years. Remember the VOG? A Burgman 400 clone, with a Yamaha 250 cloned engine. EXACT same styling as the Suzuki. Better economy. Except...the thing was garbage, and not just in assembly. Inferior casting and metallurgy caused castastrophic failures.

The VOG, made by Xingyue, is gone now...some importers still have warehouses full; but mostly they've moved on. But Xingyue never sold it under its own name. Even so...now that the Chinese are getting more serious, they cannot make headway. Their legend precedes them.

So...quality CAN matter when people PERCEIVE it matters. I don't think price-point alone can account for the poor selling of the CB. I suspect it's more that it's just us grey-heads who remember the big UJMs; the new riders all remember the Ninjas.

I like this statement for several reasons. My son has ridden my CB 1100 (in fact part of the way home the day I picked it up) and says it's a wonderful motorcycle, but if he were shopping for a new bike right now he would probably end up with an FJ-09 Yamaha. The CB just doesn't have the right look, horsepower or weight for him. (pretty sure he wouldn't mind me leaving it to him in the will though)

Conversely if my father were still alive and shopping for a new bike right now, I'm pretty sure I would find him at the Indian dealer sitting on a new Scout making vroom vroom noises. His first bike was an Indian Scout and I'm pretty sure on that appeal alone, he would be a buyer.

3 generations with 3 ideas of what a motorcycle should look like, how they should sound and how they should perform.

Wonder what kind of motorcycles grandsons Riley (2) and Tanner (4 months) will be into. probably make fun of their dads "retro" FJ-09 lol

Oh, wow. This nails it.

Now I've been down on H-D motocycles; and I've caught the flack for it. One poster here even, very gentlemanly, offered to meet up with me and let me ride his (while he evaluated my vibration problem on the CB).

I don't think I'm out of line with my opinions, or I wouldn't hold them. But the bottom line, for me, is that I have no history with H-D or cruiser cycles. My old man didn't ride. None of his friends did. Non of MY friends' fathers did. There were no Harley-Davidsons, or ANY motorcycles, in my neighborhood or my childhood.

I came to it in my twenties. A long story; but it involved a small town on Lake Erie; a wonderful summer, and a Yamaha R5C for sale for $200.

And I was hooked. The UJM was THE way to go.

Had it been different; had I been brought in with the H-D crowd

(which would have been hard; H-D guys were hiding, with their shameful secret love for what was then, early 1980s, a reeling company with an obsolete product which was likely to fail)

...had I started there, I doubtless would have entirely different tastes. I'd maybe see a CB; test-ride it...think, NICE...and go back on my Electra-Glide, to wherever Harley riders go.

It's impossible to separate tastes and early experiences and potty-training days and all that...

Oh, wow. This nails it.

Now I've been down on H-D motocycles; and I've caught the flack for it. One poster here even, very gentlemanly, offered to meet up with me and let me ride his (while he evaluated my vibration problem on the CB).

I don't think I'm out of line with my opinions, or I wouldn't hold them. But the bottom line, for me, is that I have no history with H-D or cruiser cycles. My old man didn't ride. None of his friends did. Non of MY friends' fathers did. There were no Harley-Davidsons, or ANY motorcycles, in my neighborhood or my childhood.

I came to it in my twenties. A long story; but it involved a small town on Lake Erie; a wonderful summer, and a Yamaha R5C for sale for $200.

And I was hooked. The UJM was THE way to go.

Had it been different; had I been brought in with the H-D crowd

(which would have been hard; H-D guys were hiding, with their shameful secret love for what was then, early 1980s, a reeling company with an obsolete product which was likely to fail)

...had I started there, I doubtless would have entirely different tastes. I'd maybe see a CB; test-ride it...think, NICE...and go back on my Electra-Glide, to wherever Harley riders go.

It's impossible to separate tastes and early experiences and potty-training days and all that...
Wow. Well said, and spot on!

[DJS_imp]

I would point out that many of the CB1100's competitors (retro-ish standards) are doing well in the market, and that the segment the CB sits in is a strong one. Bonnie still sells well, Ducati Scrambler, BMW R-9T both over performed sales estimates. Even Guzzi keeps rolling out new iterations of the V7. The CB's modest US market success, or lack thereof, IMHO, can be attributed to two things. 1) The CB didn't quite meet the expectations of the intended market, and 2) Honda didn't do jack squat to market it properly.

It's a great bike that we all love. But I went into the new Honda dealer that opened adjacent to the Triumph shop here in NJ, and there wasn't a single bit of evidence that the CB ever existed. Next door, a full set of Bonnies merchandise, posters, and people straddling the bikes on the showroom floor.

While I think the lack of marketing is the biggest factor, I would also add another element: the CB11 was at a little higher price point than most of its competitors which certainly played a role. History has proven that people en mass are willing to compromise quality for a cheap price (VHS vs Betamax, MS DOS vs. Apple OS, etc.)

You know...that depends.

You mention VHS versus Betamax. BOTH were new entries into a new market; and BOTH had superior quality to television or home 8mm movies. The VHS was cheaper, so since people didn't know whether quality would be worth it...they bought.

But compare that to autos or motorcycles. The VW Beetle, for much of its 28-year run, was more expensive than bigger Detroit compacts. But it sold; and with minimal advertising. People knew cars and people knew what a low-quality car was. The Falcons and Novas and Ramblers of the era were low-quality cars (and the Valiant was tarred with that brush, although it was of a higher caliber). So, people paid more for quality.

When the Yugo hit this country, people assumed a European import would be a high-quality car. And, lower price!...sold like crazy its first half-year; but word got out fast. Even though it was just a little more than half the price of a Japanese import, they couldn't give them away.

Same with cycles today. Chinese clone touring scooters have been around for eight years. Remember the VOG? A Burgman 400 clone, with a Yamaha 250 cloned engine. EXACT same styling as the Suzuki. Better economy. Except...the thing was garbage, and not just in assembly. Inferior casting and metallurgy caused castastrophic failures.

The VOG, made by Xingyue, is gone now...some importers still have warehouses full; but mostly they've moved on. But Xingyue never sold it under its own name. Even so...now that the Chinese are getting more serious, they cannot make headway. Their legend precedes them.

So...quality CAN matter when people PERCEIVE it matters. I don't think price-point alone can account for the poor selling of the CB. I suspect it's more that it's just us grey-heads who remember the big UJMs; the new riders all remember the Ninjas.

I like this statement for several reasons. My son has ridden my CB 1100 (in fact part of the way home the day I picked it up) and says it's a wonderful motorcycle, but if he were shopping for a new bike right now he would probably end up with an FJ-09 Yamaha. The CB just doesn't have the right look, horsepower or weight for him. (pretty sure he wouldn't mind me leaving it to him in the will though)

Conversely if my father were still alive and shopping for a new bike right now, I'm pretty sure I would find him at the Indian dealer sitting on a new Scout making vroom vroom noises. His first bike was an Indian Scout and I'm pretty sure on that appeal alone, he would be a buyer.

3 generations with 3 ideas of what a motorcycle should look like, how they should sound and how they should perform.

Wonder what kind of motorcycles grandsons Riley (2) and Tanner (4 months) will be into. probably make fun of their dads "retro" FJ-09 lol

Oh, wow. This nails it.

Now I've been down on H-D motocycles; and I've caught the flack for it. One poster here even, very gentlemanly, offered to meet up with me and let me ride his (while he evaluated my vibration problem on the CB).

I don't think I'm out of line with my opinions, or I wouldn't hold them. But the bottom line, for me, is that I have no history with H-D or cruiser cycles. My old man didn't ride. None of his friends did. Non of MY friends' fathers did. There were no Harley-Davidsons, or ANY motorcycles, in my neighborhood or my childhood.

I came to it in my twenties. A long story; but it involved a small town on Lake Erie; a wonderful summer, and a Yamaha R5C for sale for $200.

And I was hooked. The UJM was THE way to go.

Had it been different; had I been brought in with the H-D crowd

(which would have been hard; H-D guys were hiding, with their shameful secret love for what was then, early 1980s, a reeling company with an obsolete product which was likely to fail)

...had I started there, I doubtless would have entirely different tastes. I'd maybe see a CB; test-ride it...think, NICE...and go back on my Electra-Glide, to wherever Harley riders go.

It's impossible to separate tastes and early experiences and potty-training days and all that...

both my dad and uncle rode back in the day.
[url=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/djs_151/media/um/dad%20mc_zpsq2mnioxj.jpg.html]
above is my dad (left) back in college.

[url=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/djs_151/media/um/mc1.jpg.html]
and this is my uncle.

a very close friend of the family was big into riding and harley.
he sold biker t-shirts and buckles a long time ago and more recently manufactured and sold leather jackets and other motorcycle stuff. (my dad ran the store and i worked there in college)

those 3 were my influences. harley was a big one.
had shirts and patches and lots of harley posters on my walls.

started riding after i got married.
i ride a sportster because its a sportster . not because its a harley.
i will most likely never own another harley.
i always liked the UJM look and that is what i wanted to ride, but there was never anything new that grabbed me until the cb1100 came around.
before that there wasn't even many options besides used other than triumphs and the 2000-1 kawasaki w650.

[veech_imp]

Awesome pics.