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(09-07-2014, 01:32 PM)Pterodactyl_imp Wrote: (09-07-2014, 01:02 PM)Randy B_imp Wrote: (09-07-2014, 12:06 PM)Pterodactyl_imp Wrote: (09-07-2014, 11:25 AM)Lord Popgun_imp Wrote: The service manager rode mine and locked it up right in the parking lot. Skidded the tire and all. Said it was good and he was done. Said Honda doesn't pay him to look for problems. That was not real world braking.
I went straight to the part counter, bought some brake fluid and went home and bled out a bunch of air (does air come in bunches?). Just being able to lock up the brake doesn't mean its right, or good.
Maybe, but do you want any more brake than what is required to lock the wheel? If so, what are you going to do with it?  . You are right though, a parking lot test is near to useless. The energy (kinetic) required to be dissipated in a stop is calculated as:
E = 1/2mv²
The mass of the bike is constant. Let's say the bike weighs in at 100kgs, then at 10mph the energy to be dissipated is 5000 units. At 60mph the kinetic energy of the bike is not six times as much, that is 35000units. It is, in fact, 180,000 units. The energy is best dissipated by friction produced by a rolling tyre, not a skidding one. Hence ABS.
If you practice an emergency stop on the CB, does the bike feel as though it lacks stopping power? In my opinion, and that of many professional test riders who are a damn sight more informed than me, the brakes are rated as very good. The bike is meant to be stopped by a well balanced (if interested read my post above) combination of front and rear brake force. The CB has that.
Cheers.
Maybe, but do you want any more brake than what is required to lock the wheel?
No, but having a consistant brake because it was bled properly it at the top of my list.
Maybe, but do you want any more brake than what is required to lock the wheel?
No, but having a consistant brake because it was bled properly it at the top of my list.
That's true Randy. However I get the feeling that if a bike has stopped well for a couple of thousand miles and then, after a rear brake only "test", due to brake hypochondria or whatever, the owner thinks the rear brake is not "effective", then it's probably the brain that needs bleeding, not the brake system.
Air does not suddenly "appear" in a well designed brake system. And I would suggest that includes the CB. I don't see a class action against Honda for delivering brakes complete with air being successful. Brakes may require bleeding after a pad change, but not if you're careful. Brakes will require bleeding after, or as part of, fluid change or component change. If a brake system has trapped air the brake performance will certainly be consistent. Consistently bloody terrible!
Cheers
By the way, I'm often wrong.
Yea, wow, not sure how to respond to that one. Good thing it's my bike and my problem. I'll deal with it. Thanks for the input.
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Pterodactyl,
I understand all that, its just that the rear brake on my bike, and a few others, did not do much of anything in normal braking. Ferret described his test and mine experiance was the same. Pretty much push all you want and nothing much happens. The front brake is awesome.
Yes it locked up when the service manager tromped on it.
After I bled it last year, it is much much better, but not the greatest thing on Earth! But it is OK for me now. I didn't rebleed it yesterday as I didn't want to put in year old fluid, but I'm going to bleed it again just to see if I got all the air. Have to buy some more fluid first.
My biggest complaint was that the dealer, and Honda of America did not seem very concerned with brake complaints.
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(09-07-2014, 09:15 PM)Lord Popgun_imp Wrote: Pterodactyl,
I understand all that, its just that the rear brake on my bike, and a few others, did not do much of anything in normal braking. Ferret described his test and mine experiance was the same. Pretty much push all you want and nothing much happens. The front brake is awesome.
Yes it locked up when the service manager tromped on it.
After I bled it last year, it is much much better, but not the greatest thing on Earth! But it is OK for me now. I didn't rebleed it yesterday as I didn't want to put in year old fluid, but I'm going to bleed it again just to see if I got all the air. Have to buy some more fluid first.
My biggest complaint was that the dealer, and Honda of America did not seem very concerned with brake complaints.
Mate, believe me, that's understood too. If you don't have confidence in the bike, and particularly the brakes, you have to do something about it, otherwise bad snap judgements may be made while you are in an awkward position. Like entering a corner, or an emergency stop situation, or just plain judging buffering requirements. If the brakes, after bleeding, don't continue to be effective you need to take action. A good shop should be able to put an after market set of good stoppers on. Expensive, but a good option to consider. I don't think you will get any joy from the dealer, or Honda.
Cheers
Also, if the brakes require constant bleeding, something's wrong. Don't forget to adjust the pedal after bleeding. By the way, during the last bleed did you see any air go into the bottle, and how much?
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Your not going to get the same power out of your rear brake with ABS or linked as you would with non-abs. Its the function of the system. Its designed to work together. I lock up my rear (nonabs)with just a small amount of pressure to the point i have to be careful slowing down on any curve to a stop sign, my rear is that affective.
However, i know what you are feeling, my XX Blackbird with linked brakes is the same way. I can stand up on the seat and kill the rear and it feels like a poorly adjusted E brake in a car. Nothing wrong with the system just the design. I still works well just different.
If you had air in the system you would surely know right away when you hit the brakes. You could change the lines, pads etc. but i don't think that's going to give you that planted brake that you get from non-abs.
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Pterodactyl, CIP,
My bike is non-abs.
New from the factory, there was a lot of air in it. I don't know how to describe a lot of air, but a lot. One member here took his in and the mechanic found a lot of air and drained and refilled/bled the entire rear brake. I just bled mine until I saw no more air. Since the brakes come serviced from the factory, thoses of us with air had it from the factory. How or why I do not know.
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(09-07-2014, 11:09 PM)Lord Popgun_imp Wrote: Pterodactyl, CIP,
My bike is non-abs.
New from the factory, there was a lot of air in it. I don't know how to describe a lot of air, but a lot. One member here took his in and the mechanic found a lot of air and drained and refilled/bled the entire rear brake. I just bled mine until I saw no more air. Since the brakes come serviced from the factory, thoses of us with air had it from the factory. How or why I do not know.
Well if it needs bleeding again sounds like something's wrong. As far as I know none of the '10/'11 models on the road in OZ have had brake problems, on delivery or after. Maybe you, and the rest of the guys you mention, should take this further. Brake systems arriving with air included is serious stuff. Could be a dealer prep problem. Might kill someone. Let us know if you proceed.
Cheers
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(09-07-2014, 11:09 PM)Lord Popgun_imp Wrote: Pterodactyl, CIP,
My bike is non-abs.
New from the factory, there was a lot of air in it. I don't know how to describe a lot of air, but a lot. One member here took his in and the mechanic found a lot of air and drained and refilled/bled the entire rear brake. I just bled mine until I saw no more air. Since the brakes come serviced from the factory, thoses of us with air had it from the factory. How or why I do not know. Pop, if you have no-abs there is no reason for a soft brake, it should lock up very easily. Me reference was for the ABS guys.
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all lock up massages here are about the brakes
but for the first time ever i managed to lock up due to improper gearing...
for some dumb reason I went from 2nd to 1st at high rpm's 
Honestly, I was at a roundabound and was tailgaiting a Q5 driver that popped in front of me, thats why the tailgaiting.
He decided to slow down, to pi** me off I guess, and it worked, because I wanted to make a lot of noise when accelerating away, but instead of upshifting, I downshifted.. 
I heard my tire squealing and luckily had the reflex to pull the clutch...
But I bet a did make a scary impression towards the Audi driver.
Technically, can one destroy or damage the engine or trans from such a lock up? :/
High reving engine, but wheels don't turn (although briefly) doesn't sound like a healthy combination..
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