misterprofessionality, I think that in the case of the CB1100 the lure for most people certainly isn't that it provides the most engine for the dollar, even if you're talking about a heavily discounted 2014 Standard model. Honestly, 550 lbs divided by 85 low-revving ponies is not that difficult to beat, even at the Honda's deeply discounted price. The new Z900 or FZ-09, for example, can be purchased for the same price as a discounted CB1100, and they won't be four model years old, and their engines will annihilate the CB's big mill. Factor in the CB's 25% higher curb weight, and the motor/performance disparity grows that much larger.
Plain and simple, people buy the CB because they think it looks really cool. From there, further justifications such as comfort, Honda build quality, a relaxing ride, etc., are added, but the alpha and omega of any CB1100 purchase is the buyer's fondness for the Honda's timeless, classy style.
(10-03-2018, 01:38 PM)VLJ_imp Wrote: [ -> ]misterprofessionality, I think that in the case of the CB1100 the lure for most people certainly isn't that it provides the most engine for the dollar, even if you're talking about a heavily discounted 2014 Standard model. Honestly, 550 lbs divided by 85 low-revving ponies is not that difficult to beat, even at the Honda's deeply discounted price. The new Z900 or FZ-09, for example, can be purchased for the same price as a discounted CB1100, and they won't be four model years old, and their engines will annihilate the CB's big mill. Factor in the CB's 25% higher curb weight, and the motor/performance disparity grows that much larger.
Plain and simple, people buy the CB because they think it looks really cool. From there, further justifications such as comfort, Honda build quality, a relaxing ride, etc., are added, but the alpha and omega of any CB1100 purchase is the buyer's fondness for the Honda's timeless, classy style.
...and low RPM grunt.
The output power of my 417 # V7II was only 48 HP @ 6500 RPM, but the torque from that 744cc push rod twin was 44 ft.lbs @ only 2750 RPM...more appealing to me than a 14,000 RPM motor. It would not do much over 100, but reasonably quick off the line.
.
"I want the motorcycle that is under my control not a tech loaded supersonic jet with gizmos...and CB truly is what I want it to be"
Exactly. I bought my new leftover 2014 standard for half price of the original msrp. I am now digging all the advantages of owning a Honda with a full 5 year unlimited mileage warranty for 160.00 a month. My bike handles like a dream bone stock. A few minor adjustments to the controls, to find total bliss. Could not be happier.
When I bought the CB I had no idea of how 90 HP would feel like riding such a motorbike, because I never owned one with so much power. Power was not a criteria for me to buy it. I bought it the way it is, liked to find out and didn't get disappointed.
If a motorbike would have a gadget that indicates the HP being used during rides, many riders would be surprised of how less they actually use during normal daily rides, this could make them sad or bring them into a mood to risk more than it is healthy...Even on less powerful bikes than the CB.
If the CB would have some more power right from start like 110 or 120PS, I would nevertheless most likely not ride any different from the way I always do. Smooth, low to medium reving, gliding. So its power isn't of any major interest to me. I enjoy the engine the way it is. And so probably will most of other CB owners do, not missing something.
And the rest of ambitious motorbike riders may miss something, if they would have bought a CB, which they don't....
Wisedrum
(10-03-2018, 10:15 AM)peterbaron_imp Wrote: [ -> ] (10-02-2018, 11:07 PM)The ferret_imp Wrote: [ -> ]Im not sure where I stand. I do believe people should be able to modify their personal bikes however they wish. Im not sure how far I want Honda to modify our bike however.
ABS ok I get that, even have it on my DLX ( have yet to need it, but may someday). It also has digital gear indicator, and a trip computer both of which I like, but neither of which was the cause for me buying the bike. My 13 CB 1100 had neither., and it was a perfectly fine bike.
Slipper clutch? Ok, makes pulling the clutch lever easier, engagement feels the same. ( have it on my FJR). Downshifting multiple times at high speed I don't understand, because I have never ridden like that, there for in that respect it has no benefit for me personally
Quick shifter.. Another electronic aid I don't understand.I just dont personally understand the need to shift without using the clutch. Maybe on the racetrack, but not on the street.
Ride modes, traction control, cruise control, have those on the FJR as well. So far the only thing that has been of any benefit to me has been the cruise control. But then again it is a sport tourer designed for long distance interstate travel, and a cruise control comes in handy then. I brought it home from the dealer in Tour mode, and I have never even tried it in sport mode. I'm happy with Tour mode. I imagine the TC could come in handy some day. We shall see. Then again it is a 675 pound 145 hp beast, unlike the mild mannered CB.
hill assist, fob starting, multi axis smu, all available on some modern bikes but just unnecessary things to go wrong eventually imo. On a recent tour with my doctor on a BMW RT both his hill assist and the fob thingy caused issues. I prefer the key.
Liquid cooling... Surely a benefit for engine longevity and power, but interestingly I think for many that would be the line in the sand. " Yea give me all the technology available, but absolutely NO water cooling"
Modify them too much and you've gone beyond the intended mission I think, but all this is just personal opinion.
I also don't understand fender eliminators and loud exhaust.. Or riding helmetless and in shorts and flip flops...but like I said I do believe everyone should be able to do what they want with their bikes... And bodies.
You read my mind.
I want the motorcycle that is under my control not a tech loaded supersonic jet with gizmos...and CB truly is what I want it to be 
So, hypothetically, of course, what happens if the next bike that comes along that really presses all your buttons is "... a tech loaded supersonic jet with gizmos"? Would you not buy it? Or would you think it OK to buy it and modify it by removing some of the gizmos?
(10-03-2018, 09:43 AM)Bheezy27403_imp Wrote: [ -> ]"just buy a different bike" is a common phrase here, and the TRat forum too for that matter. I believe MisterP has a good point of view about the costs being a factor. But, at it's core, I believe most of people who spew the phrase are just completely enamored by the bike and see it through rose (Honda Red?) colored glasses. It's perfect for them so any change is some sort of an abomination. Which, of course, is fine if they feel that way but I don't believe it needs to be said ad nauseum.
Fact is it's a great bike stock but it also is a great platform for different visions.
There's two good points right there, Bheezy.
I used to be a bit of a if-you-want-to-change-so-much-about-it-why-don't-you-get-a-different-bike kinda guy, but I've changed my mind. It seems to me people buy bikes for a whole range of reasons. I bought the CB1100 because it pressed lots of buttons and I don't have a great need to change it. It's fine for me pretty much just the way it is. I just want to ride it and it's pretty good for that. I know it may be sacrilege to say this, but I'd probably still have bought it had it been water cooled.
For others, though—VLJ perhaps—the bike is a beautiful thing and lovely to ride, but it would be way better with more ponies. I don't know whether he's of a disposition to tinker; if not, I guess he'll live with it. For others, the bike is a work of art to be guarded, kept dry, polished detailed and rolled out for occasional show. For others—Aussieflyer, PowerDubs, Chris Kent, Café Project may be examples—the bike represents a starting point for some creative expression. They do that, because they have an idea and they can bring it to fruition and they enjoy the whole process of fiddling and wrenching and tweaking and trying stuff out.
I've come to realise that any of those approaches, as well as any other you can think of is just fine. Isn't it?
You paid for the bike, you get to do whatever you want with it. No judgment here.
As for me, I modified the first two bikes I owned and learned how quickly doing so can turn into a money pit situation. Lots of cash spent trying to ‘re-engineer’ perfectly sound machines with less than stellar results.
From that point on I have spent $0.00 on bike mods.
IMO, a modern bike is a very well tuned and integrated system. If I could wave a magic wand and get 25% more power out of the motor (but still had to pay to bring the suspension, brakes and frame up to snuff), I wouldn’t do it. This is only partially due to the cost. I’d be more concerned as to how many further mods, tweaks and trials it would take to get the bike, overall, to feel,ride and handle as brilliantly as the stock machine. All the while obsessing over some minor (but expensive) detail that’ll just make it great!
I’m not an engineer, I don’t think I’m an engineer and I don’t want to be one. I just want to ride.
I’ve owned some of the top sport bikes ever offered. I knew what the CB was before I bought it and right out of the box it performed as expected. Five seasons in, un-modded. I’m happy with it.
(10-03-2018, 05:46 PM)Cormanus_imp Wrote: [ -> ] (10-03-2018, 10:15 AM)peterbaron_imp Wrote: [ -> ] (10-02-2018, 11:07 PM)The ferret_imp Wrote: [ -> ]Im not sure where I stand. I do believe people should be able to modify their personal bikes however they wish. Im not sure how far I want Honda to modify our bike however.
ABS ok I get that, even have it on my DLX ( have yet to need it, but may someday). It also has digital gear indicator, and a trip computer both of which I like, but neither of which was the cause for me buying the bike. My 13 CB 1100 had neither., and it was a perfectly fine bike.
Slipper clutch? Ok, makes pulling the clutch lever easier, engagement feels the same. ( have it on my FJR). Downshifting multiple times at high speed I don't understand, because I have never ridden like that, there for in that respect it has no benefit for me personally
Quick shifter.. Another electronic aid I don't understand.I just dont personally understand the need to shift without using the clutch. Maybe on the racetrack, but not on the street.
Ride modes, traction control, cruise control, have those on the FJR as well. So far the only thing that has been of any benefit to me has been the cruise control. But then again it is a sport tourer designed for long distance interstate travel, and a cruise control comes in handy then. I brought it home from the dealer in Tour mode, and I have never even tried it in sport mode. I'm happy with Tour mode. I imagine the TC could come in handy some day. We shall see. Then again it is a 675 pound 145 hp beast, unlike the mild mannered CB.
hill assist, fob starting, multi axis smu, all available on some modern bikes but just unnecessary things to go wrong eventually imo. On a recent tour with my doctor on a BMW RT both his hill assist and the fob thingy caused issues. I prefer the key.
Liquid cooling... Surely a benefit for engine longevity and power, but interestingly I think for many that would be the line in the sand. " Yea give me all the technology available, but absolutely NO water cooling"
Modify them too much and you've gone beyond the intended mission I think, but all this is just personal opinion.
I also don't understand fender eliminators and loud exhaust.. Or riding helmetless and in shorts and flip flops...but like I said I do believe everyone should be able to do what they want with their bikes... And bodies.
You read my mind.
I want the motorcycle that is under my control not a tech loaded supersonic jet with gizmos...and CB truly is what I want it to be
So, hypothetically, of course, what happens if the next bike that comes along that really presses all your buttons is "... a tech loaded supersonic jet with gizmos"? Would you not buy it? Or would you think it OK to buy it and modify it by removing some of the gizmos?
(10-03-2018, 09:43 AM)Bheezy27403_imp Wrote: [ -> ]"just buy a different bike" is a common phrase here, and the TRat forum too for that matter. I believe MisterP has a good point of view about the costs being a factor. But, at it's core, I believe most of people who spew the phrase are just completely enamored by the bike and see it through rose (Honda Red?) colored glasses. It's perfect for them so any change is some sort of an abomination. Which, of course, is fine if they feel that way but I don't believe it needs to be said ad nauseum.
Fact is it's a great bike stock but it also is a great platform for different visions.
There's two good points right there, Bheezy.
I used to be a bit of a if-you-want-to-change-so-much-about-it-why-don't-you-get-a-different-bike kinda guy, but I've changed my mind. It seems to me people buy bikes for a whole range of reasons. I bought the CB1100 because it pressed lots of buttons and I don't have a great need to change it. It's fine for me pretty much just the way it is. I just want to ride it and it's pretty good for that. I know it may be sacrilege to say this, but I'd probably still have bought it had it been water cooled.
For others, though—VLJ perhaps—the bike is a beautiful thing and lovely to ride, but it would be way better with more ponies. I don't know whether he's of a disposition to tinker; if not, I guess he'll live with it. For others, the bike is a work of art to be guarded, kept dry, polished detailed and rolled out for occasional show. For others—Aussieflyer, PowerDubs, Chris Kent, Café Project may be examples—the bike represents a starting point for some creative expression. They do that, because they have an idea and they can bring it to fruition and they enjoy the whole process of fiddling and wrenching and tweaking and trying stuff out.
I've come to realise that any of those approaches, as well as any other you can think of is just fine. Isn't it?
So, hypothetically, of course, what happens if the next bike that comes along that really presses all your buttons is "... a tech loaded supersonic jet with gizmos"? Would you not buy it? Or would you think it OK to buy it and modify it by removing some of the gizmos?
I like simplicity, I am over 60 and am not crazy for the look of new/modern bikes...and this is one of the reasons, I did not have bike for 30 yrs.
It is very unlikely that I would buy: the next bike that comes along that really presses all your buttons is "... a tech loaded supersonic jet with gizmos"? Would you really buy it??? Or would you think it OK to buy it and modify it by removing some of the gizmos? ...The bottom line is NO... and would not buy and then modify by dismantling gizmos = makes no sense at all.
I also understand that manufactures are not seriously considering old motorcyclists, purly for lower demand/financial reasons.
If the look of any motorcycle catches my eye, I will have a closer look at it, analyze it and make my final decision. Would say, the 2014 CB1100 is the last motorcycle in my life
???....unless the CB1300 shows up in Canada, then would have to think twice before buying it due to my age.
Cheers to all,
+1 peterbaron!
When I was looking at bikes to re-enter motorcycling, I was only looking at 20- 30 year old models ranging from inexpensive fixer uppers to moderately priced running machines.
Then the retro machines caught my attention and I ended up with the CB.
Ben
Cormanus Wrote:I used to be a bit of a if-you-want-to-change-so-much-about-it-why-don't-you-get-a-different-bike kinda guy, but I've changed my mind. It seems to me people buy bikes for a whole range of reasons. I bought the CB1100 because it pressed lots of buttons and I don't have a great need to change it. It's fine for me pretty much just the way it is. I just want to ride it and it's pretty good for that. I know it may be sacrilege to say this, but I'd probably still have bought it had it been water cooled.
For others, though—VLJ perhaps—the bike is a beautiful thing and lovely to ride, but it would be way better with more ponies. I don't know whether he's of a disposition to tinker; if not, I guess he'll live with it.
Truth be told, yep, I too probably would have bought it if it had been liquid-cooled, everything else being equal....with one caveat. In exchange for giving up that air-cooled authenticity, a liquid-cooled CB1100 would have needed to boast more power.
Otherwise, yes, you described my feelings to a tee. I view my CB1100 as a beautiful thing and lovely to ride (perfect description, btw), but I would enjoy her even more if she at least offered the old air-cooled Bandit 1200's torque, and twenty-five more rwhp. Around town and on country roads, she's already perfect. Ideal. Couldn't be happier. Out on the highway, however, especially up in the mountains, riding at elevation, I want that missing extra grunt.
Still, I will not tinker with her. With the wobbly taillight issue now fully sorted, I'm not going to touch another thing on this bike. The power deficit certainly isn't ruining the ride for me. In fact, it really only enters my consciousness when I'm riding at elevation, or when I've just hopped off of the Yamaha. On the flipside, every time I hop onto the big CB after riding the Yamaha I'm immediately happier to be on the Honda. It's just the overall refinement. The squeaky brakes notwithstanding, everything else on the Honda is so smooth, polished, user-friendly and, well, just plain enjoyable, it's like dipping into a warm, welcoming bath..."Aaaaaahhhhhhh, it's good to be home."