2019 Indian FTR 1200 Announced

[redbirds_imp]

Looks like a winner if this configuration is held to.

http://www.motorcycle.com/features/india...-2019.html

[Guth_imp]

Oh man, this thing could prove to be pretty awesome. Nothing like striking while the iron is hot for Indian. I really look forward to seeing how the actual production bike turns out.

[misterprofessionality]

Been following the development of this bike for a long while now (over a year) because I'm desperate to see a genuine American Bike that's not a cruiser make a huge splash, and this is the best chance I've seen. The only problem I can see with it is that it has a strong potential (like a lot of American bikes) to be painfully overpriced, and thus not really competitive.

[VLJ_imp]

If Indian doesn't screw this up, this bike will be a huge point of embarrassment to H-D. How horrible will this be, for upstart Indian to build the very bike about which Americans have clamored for years for H-D to build.

[Frulk_imp]

We could talk for hours about what Harley should, or shouldn't be doing in the current motorcycle market place. When Harley rolled out the XR1200 back in 08 it was for the European riders. Once it was brought stateside the following year the Kool-Aide drinking faithful didn't ask for it, didn't want it, and henceforth did not embrace it. Japanese brand riders weren't remotely interested (too heavy said they, too underpowered said they). Too little of this and too little of that. Not sure what Americans are clamoring for Harley to build this bike but Harley riders (in any semblance of appreciable numbers) are NOT among them. I base this on a number of observations. In the 3 years and change that the XR was for sale in the USA (including the XR-X with the upgraded suspension) approximately 10,000 units were sold. That's from a company that at one time was selling in excess of 300,000 bike a YEAR.

Harley could drop an XR version of that Scout into the showroom tomorrow, meaning 475 pounds WET with 100-125+ horsepower and it wouldn't move in the numbers required to make it profitable. Again, current Harley riders aren't looking for a sport bike and the rift between Japanese brand owners and Harleys brand image is too wide for many (not all) to make the jump, not to mention that performance would still be lagging behind the cutting edge Asian bikes.

I'm in our local Harley dealer fairly routinely (I have an XR1200, daughter has an Iron 883 and her boyfriend has a 1200 Sportster and couple of friends I hang with also ride Harleys among the brands they own). We're kind of an oddity in the dealership. We ride the MoCo's products but wear armored jackets and helmets and don't have the traditional pirate outfits. On the infrequent occasion that I engage one of the unwashed masses the discussion NEVER comes around wishing that Harley reintroduce an XR that's 75 to 100 pounds lighter and has 125HP minimum at the rear wheel. In my opinion the closest thing to a sports bike Harley currently has on the showroom floor is the Roadster. A bike that appears to not be selling well (not because of it's numerous shortcomings) but because there just isn't any interest or demand in a sporting platform among the faithful. I've seen the same Roadster sitting on the floor for several months now.

Harley really dropped the ball (again, just my opinion here) with Eric Beull. Were I in charge at the corporate level of the MoCo I would have handled that relationship much differently. Again, something we could discuss for hours.


ALL of the aforementioned comments aside...I'm keeping an eye on this Scout development. My interest is piqued.

BTW: I love my overweight, underpowered XR

[VLJ_imp]

Frulk, the XR1200 was far too heavy, slow, and antiquated to be the performance-oriented standard people were asking for, which is why it died on the sales floor. This new Indian has a chance to be a success, but only if it delivers on the promises made by the Indian flat-trackers and Pikes Peak bikes.

[Frulk_imp]

I agree with your basic assessment of the XR's shortcomings. However, many times, what's on paper doesn't fully explain the whole. Slow relative to what? We have THAT discussion periodically around here about the CB's numbers. Look up how many cars run 0-60 mph in the low to mid 3 second range. Both the CB and XR will put many 6 digit $$$ performance automobiles to shame. If somebodies real world riding style requires more performance then that on a daily basis they need to get back to a couple of classes on motorcycle safety and consider increasing their health care coverage to a premium plan. My point was that there is little or no demand from 'Harley riders' currently for a bike like this Indian. So, that leaves the question on who else would buy it. If I Was a betting man I'd say there will be more Japanese brand riders moving across brands to Indian than from Harleys. Why? There isn't the long standing animosity between Indian and those brands as there is with Harley. In no small measure the Harley lifestyle image factor also plays into this. As shown the bike will be mostly limited to duties as an around town bar hopper or playing a little on gravel roads on the outskirts of town. I've always been an Indian fan from a distance. Both the old and new. I'll go look at it. What would really get me interested is an ADV version of that model.

[misterprofessionality]

I, too, think the XR was cool. I mean, the CB is essentially overweight and underpowered for a retro standard liter bike too, but we still all love it. That's because we're honda types. we're honda's target market, whether we'd admit it out loud or not. The XR was an *Attempt* at building what they need to build, but it was a half-measure at best. the thing is, that it's not the harley faithful that are shouting for a Harley performance standard like the FTR1200. it's EVERYBODY ELSE. The harley faithful are all either dying off or only buying used bikes. Harley needs to make this bike to try and pull marketshare away from the japanese-oriented riders. To do that, they need

A) more power

B) less weight

C) reliability comparable to japanese brands

and D) a better price point than all the imported products.

Even if they could manage to hit 3/4 of these, with emphasis on C and D, they could finally start to pull marketshare off of their competition. Once again, it's not at all about doing anything the Harley Faithful are asking for. it's about taking a complete departure from what your core market is asking for and selling something that somebody else might be interested in.

Their biggest obstacle lies in willingness to take a risk, and willingness to find ways to cut costs, regardless of how it affects their image with the old guard.

also: you don't see Honda refusing to build anything that doesn't have in inline 4 in it. they don't have to use a V-twin in every durn bike. just saying.

last thing: i'd reccomend taking this imaginary FTR1200-like bike and actually selling it in third party dealerships. this is KEY.

[Roper_imp]

Indian (Polaris) know they have to attract a new generation of riders. Younger riders don't want a Harley. Too...well...old man. And the ADV bikes are heading that direction. Polaris astutely canned Victory and is doing things right with Indian, this time. Flat trackers, Scramblers, and retro bikes are where the money will come from. Like them or not, they're going to save motorcycling from dying with the hogs.

[Frulk_imp]

Roper may be on to something here. In my small social circle (like the CB and XR I was never really popular) the following bikes have been purchased recently.

....One retired friend traded in a BMWGS800 ADV bike on a new Triumph Bobber in the last 3 weeks. 2 months prior to that he purchased a new Triumph Scrambler outright. He also has a Road King and XR in his garage.

… A mutual friend of ours just purchased a Ducati Desert Sled Scrambler to go with a BMW1200GS and a Triumph Bonneville that are both a few years old.

All three bikes came from the same mega import dealer in Salt Lake City.