known bugs ?

[The Gecko_imp]

So happy with my EX (the riding as much as working on it) that I do consider buying another CB1100, ideally the cheapest I can lay my hands on. This would most likely be a high mileage model from 2013 or 2014. But since I have seen quite a few problem reports - problems the later EX does not have, a little caution seems appropriate.

I am thinking of those ECU problems, high idle, etc. But the truth is I do know to little about it. Do these problems affect all early CB1100, or only a small number ? Are there other problems a buyer should be wary of ? Are there known cures ? is it just a matter of throwing money at the problem ? I am not talking about anything easily visible in a pre-buy, like chrome, or header pipes. Rather any serious problems known and harder to fix.

If this subject has been discussed in an older (and hard to find) thread, could you please point me in the right direction ?

This might also be interesting for other buyers who know about our forum, but have not yet bought their CB.

[the Ferret]

The idle issue affected very few units. Finding good tires in our sizes maybe. Some rust on various parts, particularly under fenders and triple tree clamps. Off the top of my head I cant think of any other issues of major concern. The bikes have been pretty bullet proof.

[The Gecko_imp]

Thanks a lot Ferret, is the idle issue immediately apparent when checking out the bike ? or does it show itself only under conditions hard to reproduce ?

[GoldOxide_imp]

Over five years on a 2014 CB1100 and no issues as put by the Forum. I did not think less of the CB1100.

I did have a couple of high idle situations, however, I excuse them as riding the bike in -20 to -25C air ambient temperatures. As soon as the air-cooled lump got closer to operating temperature (in about 5 to 10 minutes), the idle fell within normal range. This is similar behaviour with older bikes where the choke has to be left on longer until the engine reached operating temperature.

[Nachodaddy]

Thanks a lot Ferret, is the idle issue immediately apparent when checking out the bike ? or does it show itself only under conditions hard to reproduce ?

I bought my 2013 in September, 2020 with 4525 miles on it, from a private party. It was in beautiful condition and ran perfectly. It had not had any modifications to the engine, like ECU flashing or performance chips or a Power Commander. Within less than 100 miles, the idle problem started. At first, after riding a few miles, when I stopped at a stop sign or traffic signal, it would idle down to 500rpm and, when I twisted the throttle to go, it would die. It would continue to do this until I revved it up and slipped the clutch to get some speed up. It stopped me in the middle of the intersection a couple of times, which is no fun in Phoenix traffic. Drivers here are not forgiving. I don't have exact dates, but before long, the high idle problem started. I would start normally, drive off, but at the first stop, the idle would go to 2000rpm. After the high idle started, the low-idle never returned. From then on, the bike would only idle at 2000rpm. The one exception is that I could dis-connect the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) and it would run fine and idle at 1100rpm, but would not rev higher than 5000rpm.
I read everything I could find on the Forum about the problem, a lot of it I did not understand. One person claimed to have solved his problem by changing the sparkplug wires and coils. I have a spare set I bought used on EBAY if you want to send me $90 for them. Didn't work. Most others agreed that the Intake Control Valve was at fault. Bought one and had it installed. Didn't work.
To make a very long story shorter, Power Dubs recommended changing out the Electronic Control Unit (ECU). By then I was tired of throwing money at it and didn't want to spend over $700 only to find out it wouldn't work, so I waited. Then a member in South Korea described the same problem and said his Honda mechanic put in a new ECU and the problem went away. So, I decided to try it. I ordered a new replacement from Partzilla for $478, which was over $500 with tax, etc., and installed it myself. The bike runs fine since then. I believe that was in about last September.
The link for the part I bought and installed is:
https://www.partzilla.com/product/honda/38770-MGC-A24
A temporary fix that I found useful was to disconnect the battery leads and connect them together for 15 minutes. Make sure they do not touch the battery terminals during this time. I don't know why it works, but it worked for me. I now have over 6200 fun miles on the bike.
Good luck and I hope this has been useful.

[max]

Would it help if we had a poll on the 2014 subject?

[pdedse]

Thanks a lot Ferret, is the idle issue immediately apparent when checking out the bike ? or does it show itself only under conditions hard to reproduce ?

I don't necessarily disagree with Ferret's statement that the idle issue has affected only a "very few units". I only know that for those who had a continuous issue with it, that it's quite frustrating. But all bikes have this or that to look out for.

Look at the [url=http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=11247]CurlyJoe Spreadsheet; there are 36 forum members who reported idle issues to one degree or another. You can read what the problem was like, what they did, whether the problem persisted or went away.

Likely, there are other forum members who experienced the idle issue but did not report on that spreadsheet. Then there are non forum members with CB1100s that had issues, so who knows the true number of affected bikes. If it's double or even triple what has been reported here, that's still only around 100 affected bikes out of 5, 10, 15 thousand? of bikes sold worldwide. Let's say 10 thousand units were sold worldwide during '13-'14. Let's double the number of affected bikes to 200 to get a little higher percent of possibly affected bikes. So 200 out of 10,000 = 0.02, or 2% of the bikes. Just sample numbers, so don't quote me on this please.

So if you're looking to buy another CB1100, perhaps there's 2% chance the bike has the idle issue..."very few units". I don't think my numbers are terribly off, but let's assume they are and double the problem....that's still only a less than 5% chance a '13/14 will have the issue. Still pretty good odds in your favor.

But to answer your 2 questions based on my experience: "...is the idle issue immediately apparent when checking out the bike ? or does it show itself only under conditions hard to reproduce ?"

1) No, it's not always immediately apparent. Once my '14 Standard exhibited both the low and the high idle issues, most rides the problem would arise, but usually after a 1-2 miles; many times it wouldn't show simply starting and letting it set a few minutes.

2) Other times, nothing would happen for 30-40 miles, then all of a sudden the high or low idle would start, usually after coming to a stop. The low idle was dangerous because it would fall to 500-600rmp, then sputter and die. Then it would be difficult to start immediately. Fortunately for me, this happened only a few times.

I think what you want to know is "what should I do if I'm interested in a particular bike?" As a minimum, start the bike when it's cold, let it idle for a few mintures to see if it follows the normal 1500-1600rpm star-up idle, then falls to 1050-1100. If it were me, I would ask for a good test ride of 15-30 minutes, and stop and go lots, and choose a warm day. At every stop check to see if idle is at 1050-ish. If the owner is reluctant to allow an extended test ride, maybe ask the owner to go with you on another bike or vehicle. If from the dealer, I would require that my accepted offer be contingent upon an extended test ride free of this issue.

Now, several years after the fact, we have a better understanding of what the fix is, so even if it were to develop in a '13 or '14, then you would have good info / how-to resources here.

To my knowledge, no '17ex has had this issue.

[GoldOxide_imp]

Thanks a lot Ferret, is the idle issue immediately apparent when checking out the bike ? or does it show itself only under conditions hard to reproduce ?

I bought my 2013 in September, 2020 with 4525 miles on it, from a private party. It was in beautiful condition and ran perfectly. It had not had any modifications to the engine, like ECU flashing or performance chips or a Power Commander. Within less than 100 miles, the idle problem started. At first, after riding a few miles, when I stopped at a stop sign or traffic signal, it would idle down to 500rpm and, when I twisted the throttle to go, it would die. It would continue to do this until I revved it up and slipped the clutch to get some speed up. It stopped me in the middle of the intersection a couple of times, which is no fun in Phoenix traffic. Drivers here are not forgiving. I don't have exact dates, but before long, the high idle problem started. I would start normally, drive off, but at the first stop, the idle would go to 2000rpm. After the high idle started, the low-idle never returned. From then on, the bike would only idle at 2000rpm. The one exception is that I could dis-connect the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) and it would run fine and idle at 1100rpm, but would not rev higher than 5000rpm.
I read everything I could find on the Forum about the problem, a lot of it I did not understand. One person claimed to have solved his problem by changing the sparkplug wires and coils. I have a spare set I bought used on EBAY if you want to send me $90 for them. Didn't work. Most others agreed that the Intake Control Valve was at fault. Bought one and had it installed. Didn't work.
To make a very long story shorter, Power Dubs recommended changing out the Electronic Control Unit (ECU). By then I was tired of throwing money at it and didn't want to spend over $700 only to find out it wouldn't work, so I waited. Then a member in South Korea described the same problem and said his Honda mechanic put in a new ECU and the problem went away. So, I decided to try it. I ordered a new replacement from Partzilla for $478, which was over $500 with tax, etc., and installed it myself. The bike runs fine since then. I believe that was in about last September.
The link for the part I bought and installed is:
https://www.partzilla.com/product/honda/38770-MGC-A24
A temporary fix that I found useful was to disconnect the battery leads and connect them together for 15 minutes. Make sure they do not touch the battery terminals during this time. I don't know why it works, but it worked for me. I now have over 6200 fun miles on the bike.
Good luck and I hope this has been useful.

The theory could be the primitive ECU technology when disconnected from its power source is any volatile memory of its run-time parameters are lost and have to be rebulit (or "re-learned") on subsequent rides. The time duration of disconnect might just be to ensure any capacitive storage in the ECU component has had time to drain. Shorting the circuit (with the battery disconnected) helps dissipate any circuit capacitance instantly. Minutes following the short circuit is really not required and is a myth unless volatile memory is supported by a supercapacitor.

So, continuing to use the problem ECU, the parameter building (or "learning") begins again ride-after-rider and supposedly getting more "intelligent" as a reflection of rider's habit or riding style. However, if there is a bug in the ECU firmware logic and/or hardware, then it will eventually show up again without a manufacturer's root cause fix.

[The Gecko_imp]

Thanks pdedse, that does help a lot. BTW it may be technically / statistically 2% or 5% of all CB/s. But as an owner with a bike like that may be more inclined to sell rapidly than the average owner, it may well be 10% or 15% of those CB/s for sale any time on the market. Whatever the odds,
- your advice helps
- and its a good warning to newcomers.
May be Cormanus might wonna move this tread to a section of the forum where a newbie will more readily find it.

End of 2022 coming close, I wish you fellow "guys" all the best !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[peterbaron]

All of my three CBs never had a problem with total 160K km/100K miles ridden.
I sold my 2013 CB due to 5 speed tranny and replaced it with a 2014/6 speed.
Presently have two 2014, standard and DLX, and love them both!!