Lane splitting (sharing) interview

[lola_imp]

Mickey, In my opinion unfortunately it would be the motorcycle at fault . The motorcycle is on the cars blind spot so I believe in my own experience that its the motorcyclist responsibility to anticipate a cars action at all times and should have seen the cars INDICATORS going into that hole in that lane.

[Randy B]

And ferret a motorcycle exclusive lane would make people all the madder then they are now. They don't obey the carpool lane restrictions as it is, what in the world would make you believe that they would stay out of a motorcycle lane with their cars?
There is also a ton of motorcycle parking spots out here and car regularly park in them taking up 3-4 spots for bikes. They see an opening and take it.
Besides, making an exclusive lane would be monetarily prohibitive.

[emptysea]

Only the last sentence makes any logical sense, Randy. Expense is the issue. That motorists violate the carpool and motorcycle parking restrictions is not a logical argument for not having carpool lanes or parking restrictions, much less a logical argument against motorcycle-only lanes. I would contend that more motorists would look before entering a motorcycle-only lane (and more still a motorcycle-passing lane) than currently look for splitters when they change lanes now.

[the Ferret]

Sea we comment because this is an open public forum and the subject was brought up, so as thinking individuals we discuss the subject. I wish more than just a few of us would discuss these things. I'd like to know if my thinking is with the majority or not, how do other motorcyclist think about things like splitting, gear, passing on double yellows, etc?

Discussion is part of education. Without discussion it's just pontification. I'd like to know the legal ramifications, the moral obligations, what is expected of us, what we expect of others, what riders think is ok and what is not ok, so I can make (relatively) intelligent decisions on differing subjects, especially those I may be asked to vote on someday. Right now, on this subject, still not sure which way I would vote. Unlike the gear subject, it not only affects me as a motorcyclist, but every so often I drive a 4 wheeled vehicle as well, and it would affect me then as well. I didn't feel comfortable in the rental car in Cali with motorcycles blasting past inches from my window, but maybe because that was the first time it ever happened to me. I didn't feel comfortable doing it on my motorcycle in Cali because I had never done it before. May be old hat for Cali motorcyclists, but for a Buckeye visiting, it was a new and most terrifying experience

[aschem_imp]

Grew up riding in So Cal and I have no problem lane splitting.

[XSCBT_imp]

Being from MS, I can't say that we even have enough traffic to discuss lane splitting, but I was riding in the Bay area a couple of years back and noticed several riders doing it. I was not used to seeing it and sometimes found myself in the far right side of the lane and it scared the crap out of me a couple of times when other motorcyclists would do it. While I didn't lane split, I did watch my right mirror closely and it seemed to work well. The riders were courteous and waved each time. I'm sure it will be a long long time before the issue comes up here at home.

[the Ferret]

Topic is also big in Montana and North Dakota

Actually there might be a few places where this would even be of much concern outside of California... Miami, Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas, New York City (can you imagine New Yorkers moving over to let motorcyclists zoom past? lol) Boston, Seattle, Portland, Washington DC

[AzBob_imp]

The problem with making a narrow lane just for bikes along the shoulder is the road debris that accumulates there. I have seen accident debris on the side of a roadway sit there for a month even though it should have been cleaned up by the tow truck that picked up the wreck in the first place.
And as to the idea of a motorist moving to one side or the other within their lane that can be construed as weaving even if they don't actually leave their lane of travel and if observed by an officer they could be pulled over. It shows a lack of concentration on the road or impairment of the driver in that they could either be paying attention to a cell phone and not watching the road, or even be drunk. In either of those cases, a car driver weaving withing their lane like that and hitting someone on a motorcycle while splitting, it would be the drivers fault.
You have to realize that this is not something that just goes on in California, but parts of Australia and most of Europe and Asia do it as well. This is something that law enforcement agencies and insurance companies around the world deal with every day. There are good and bad lane splitters just like there are good and bad drivers in general. It would be something that the public would have to get used to if it were made legal in other states, but I have a feeling that that would be far off at this point.

Really? and a motorcycle weaving back and forth between 2 lanes of cars and popping in and out of lanes without the benefit of using turn signals would NOT be construed as weaving? or illegal lane change?

so if a hole in traffic opens up and a motorcyclist who is splitting pops in from the left without signaling. while a car seeing the hole, signals and pops in from the right, and the two collide in the middle, who would be at fault?

Just trying to understand.

I agree with Sea, wouldn't a motorcycle exclusive lane be the safer way to do it all around?

Really? and a motorcycle weaving back and forth between 2 lanes of cars and popping in and out of lanes without the benefit of using turn signals would NOT be construed as weaving? or illegal lane change?

so if a hole in traffic opens up and a motorcyclist who is splitting pops in from the left without signaling. while a car seeing the hole, signals and pops in from the right, and the two collide in the middle, who would be at fault?

Just trying to understand.

I agree with Sea, wouldn't a motorcycle exclusive lane be the safer way to do it all around?
First of all I'm not yelling or berating here, just stating.

If a motorcycle is weaving he's not splitting, he's weaving. That can be, and is ticketed here because it is dangerous.
If a motorcycle moves into a gap and a car comes over from the other lane, weather they signaled or not, the rider will most likely get out of the way so he doesn't get run over. An opening in a lane between two other lanes is a possibility for all types of vehicles and I don't care who you are, you had better be paying attention when you do it or you are risking an collision.
If the rider is in the position of being ahead of the driver when moving into the lane then it would be his lane to occupy. If the driver were ahead, then it would be his. It's the same idea as if the rider were coming from the lane next to the open one....merge with caution and be aware of the other vehicle around you. It's not rocket science.

"Ahead of the other vehicle" is not a right-of-way law I've ever encountered (assuming by "ahead," you're talking about space [in front of], and not time).

Generally, it is my understanding that the vehicle already in the lane has the right-of-way in that lane. In other words, whoever got there first, regardless of whether they are in front of, or behind the other motorist. Additionally, once in the lane, he need not make accommodation for other motorists, other than to be sure not to follow too closely to the vehicle in front of him (i.e. tailgate). Courtesy, while polite, is not the law. There are caveats for HOW they got there... if they are there first, but performed an illegal lane change (e.g. did not signal their lane change), then they are most likely are at-fault. If they got there first, but passed on the right in a state where that is illegal, again, they are most likely at-fault. If two vehicles are attempting to occupy the same lane at the same time, both legally, some states say the vehicle on the left has the right-of-way and the vehicle on the right must yield, but this isn't universal, unfortunately.

Further, if a vehicle is LEAVING the lane you are in, and you attempt to go around them before they have fully occupied the adjacent lane, you need to keep in mind that THEY still have right-of-way in the lane they are departing until they fully occupied the adjacent lane. So, if they happen to jack the brakes or hurriedly return to the lane for whatever reason, causing the two of you to collide, YOU are at-fault. This makes me think that the lane-splitting motorist is basically ALWAYS at-fault unless the adjacent motorist did something egregious.

[Randy B]

My statement about being ahead was not from a legal standpoint, more from a practical standpoint. Basically if you are ahead you most likely will be entering the lane first anyway because the vehicle that would be behind would not have the room to make a safe lane change anyway. I could try and draw out what I'm talking about, but if you think about it, you'll understand what I'm saying.

[Pterodactyl_imp]

Maybe we are overthinking this. In Oz there was similar lane filtering discussion on motorcycle and motorist forums, State parliaments, the press, shock jock radio and "down the pub". Opinions ranged from all sweetness and light to predictions of bloody carnage on the roads. One thing was apparent though. Motorcyclists were already doing it. In large numbers. Some were getting booked. Not many, as road policing here relies heavily on fixed and mobile speed camera revenue raising. Some motorists were enraged by this illegal activity; lane filtering and splitting I mean, as all are enraged by speed cameras. This encouraged tut tutting by some motorists, other motorists to actively block lane filtering and formed a good basis for good old road rage.

It is often said that if enough good citizens disobey the law then maybe the law should be looked at. Well sanity prevailed and the filtering law was looked at and the law, finally, changed to legalise filtering. It was a long and slow process and lined the pockets of many academic producers of "authoritative studies" with much tax payers gold, kept shock jocks in subject matter, parliamentarians in front of press cameras and the latté sippers hearts a-fluttering. In short everyone was happily occupied. But it was done. Bloody carnage? No. Insurance battles? No. Increase in road rage? No, because filtering was now legal and that kind of tends to undermine the basis of a good rage. Motorists and motorcyclists have come, in the main, to realise filtering actually works to benefit both parties. With time greasing the wheels of change most motorists now actively give a little room when they are aware that there is a bike in the rear view mirror. And I am grateful to them for that and the milk of human kindness washes the tension from my forearms as I filter with gay (in the traditional sense) abandon.

The filtering laws vary slightly from State to State but are essentially the same in that filtering is defined as the act of manoeuvring, at speeds of up to 30kph, between lines of traffic when the traffic is either stationary or moving at low speed. There are rules which I won't bother to post here. Just Google if you are interested. Anything resembling, but outside of that, is defined as lane splitting and is specifically outlawed. Fines and worse may be applied. Of course a small minority of motorcyclists still split. They often make the news.

So, what's my point? Basically that we, being the Australian road using community, did surely find a compromise on this issue and guess what? It works. The idea of 30kph was earlier scoffed at. Maybe that was part of the compromise.

Cheers