How dealers lose the sale

[LongRanger_imp]

VLJ, I think you've nailed the evocative side of owning a CB. We don't buy these bikes for the spec sheet. Lord knows there are many bikes that can slap a CB around. But none I've come across brings the emotional appeal, the inner glow, the pride of ownership, the build quality, that the CB does. It's such a well executed motorbike. For the type of riding you're aspiring towards, I personally can't think of a nicer bike. By the way, don't kid yourself -- the CB gets with the business when you twist the go handle.

[the Ferret]

I hadn't thought about it, but yeah, you're right, what a breath of fresh air this place is, in terms of being able to conduct a conversation in a logical order.
By the way, mickey, for the record, I should come clean and admit that this forum and you specifically play large roles in why I want to own a CB1100. Even though we seem to have very different riding styles, I probably connect more with you and your way of thinking than with anyone else on the various boards. Rarely if ever do I find that I disagree with you regarding motorcycles, or motorcycling; the new CB1000R being one obvious exception. In the main, you value the same aspects of motorcycling that I do, so your unwavering support for the CB goes a long way with me.

Also, you're honest enough about the CB to tell me right out there for all the world to see that you think it won't satisfy me, so I know you're not sugarcoating everything.

Now, if only you could get the Dani vs Nicky thing sorted, we'd be like brothers from another mother.

Thanks for the kind words. Just a life long motorcyclist of German heritage from a family of lifelong motorcyclists of German heritage with obnoxiously stubborn notions of how things should be, but a willingness to listen, and ponder, and maybe, just maybe change my mind lol

on the Nicky/Dani thing. Did you know Pedrosa had the second most podiums last year. More than Dovi, more than Vinales, more than Rossi? Only Marquez had more podiums. The little guy continues to amaze me. Was a shame what happened to Hayden, by all accounts he was a great motorcyclist and man.

I'm sure the CB1000R is going to be a fantastic bike. It will run and handle and still be reliable and have fantastic fit and finish like all Honda's. I just cannot abide a motorcycle that doesn't have a rear fender. And it has quite possibly the ugliest exhaust pipe I have ever seen. I will go to my grave not understanding undertails and tiny little tail lights and turn signals. I know many like that style, and although they look good on a cafe racer with a bum seat and clip on's, it just doesn't look right to me on a roadster type bike. The street fighter look just never caught on with me. I don't care for ape hangers either, or peanut tanks, single seats or foot forward pegs either. But I do believe in to each their own. Personally I prefer some color, some chrome, and some symmetry.

[VLJ_imp]

VLJ, I think you've nailed the evocative side of owning a CB. We don't buy these bikes for the spec sheet. Lord knows there are many bikes that can slap a CB around. But none I've come across brings the emotional appeal, the inner glow, the pride of ownership, the build quality, that the CB does. It's such a well executed motorbike. For the type of riding you're aspiring towards, I personally can't think of a nicer bike. By the way, don't kid yourself -- the CB gets with the business when you twist the go handle.

I hope you're right, and I hope that "go" isn't accompanied by excessive vibration. By nearly all accounts the CB1100 is super-smooth below 5K rpm, and its vibes only come to the fore in the upper reaches of the tach. Most of those same people also describe those upper reaches of the tach as being where the CB's extra hp finally allows the big CB to overtake the T120, which otherwise accelerates harder and feels more powerful everywhere.

If the CB achieves somewhat decent speed only by zipping it up into its buzzy zone, and that buzzy zone is consistently annoying, yep, that would certainly bother me. The XSR accelerates like a maniac down low and throughout the midrange, yet I still spend a good percentage of my time on my favorite race roads in the 9-11.5K rpm range. I did the same with my Street Triple R, CBR600, my GSX-R's, etc. If a motor has rev potential, I exploit that potential. I love a quick-revving motor, which is one reason why I love the XSR's Triple, and why I'm sure I would love the Z900's smooth, zippy mill.

My main worry is that my XSR absolutely annihilates the T120 everywhere, including down low, where the T120 is supposed to be so punchy. I'm talking a night-and-day difference. with the T120 feeling positively slow following any ride on the XSR. At the same time, most reviewers say the T120 feels more powerful and accelerates harder than the CB1100, even the slightly more powerful '17 CB1100, so I can't help but imagine how slow it might seem compared to the XSR. I'd be okay with that, as long as it at least has some giddy-up in the higher revs, but not if those higher revs are accompanied by annoying buzz, which isn't the case with the XSR.

I hadn't thought about it, but yeah, you're right, what a breath of fresh air this place is, in terms of being able to conduct a conversation in a logical order.
By the way, mickey, for the record, I should come clean and admit that this forum and you specifically play large roles in why I want to own a CB1100. Even though we seem to have very different riding styles, I probably connect more with you and your way of thinking than with anyone else on the various boards. Rarely if ever do I find that I disagree with you regarding motorcycles, or motorcycling; the new CB1000R being one obvious exception. In the main, you value the same aspects of motorcycling that I do, so your unwavering support for the CB goes a long way with me.

Also, you're honest enough about the CB to tell me right out there for all the world to see that you think it won't satisfy me, so I know you're not sugarcoating everything.

Now, if only you could get the Dani vs Nicky thing sorted, we'd be like brothers from another mother.

Thanks for the kind words. Just a life long motorcyclist of German heritage from a family of lifelong motorcyclists of German heritage with obnoxiously stubborn notions of how things should be, but a willingness to listen, and ponder, and maybe, just maybe change my mind lol

on the Nicky/Dani thing. Did you know Pedrosa had the second most podiums last year. More than Dovi, more than Vinales, more than Rossi? Only Marquez had more podiums. The little guy continues to amaze me. Was a shame what happened to Hayden, by all accounts he was a great motorcyclist and man.

I'm sure the CB1000R is going to be a fantastic bike. It will run and handle and still be reliable and have fantastic fit and finish like all Honda's. I just cannot abide a motorcycle that doesn't have a rear fender. And it has quite possibly the ugliest exhaust pipe I have ever seen. I will go to my grave not understanding undertails and tiny little tail lights and turn signals. I know many like that style, and although they look good on a cafe racer with a bum seat and clip on's, it just doesn't look right to me on a roadster type bike. The street fighter look just never caught on with me. I don't care for ape hangers either, or peanut tanks, single seats or foot forward pegs either. But I do believe in to each their own. Personally I prefer some color, some chrome, and some symmetry.

Ditto

Quote:with obnoxiously stubborn notions of how things should be
DITTO!

Quote:but a willingness to listen, and ponder, and maybe, just maybe change my mind lol
Well, I'm trying. Thus, the CB1100 thing.

Quote:on the Nicky/Dani thing. Did you know Pedrosa had the second most podiums last year. More than Dovi, more than Vinales, more than Rossi? Only Marquez had more podiums. The little guy continues to amaze me.
Not really a true indicator of anything significant. He's on a Repsol Honda, and he was healthy the entire season. The only other guy on a similar machine beats him like a drum every year. Dovi, Vinales, and Rossi were on bikes that simply didn't work at some tracks, or in extreme weather conditions. The 2017 Factory Yamaha worked neither in the wet nor in extreme heat, and 2017 offered an unusual number of mixed-condition races. Also, Rossi was hurt for too much of the year for his numbers to matter.

Dani is great, no doubt, but his numbers will never matter because they're so wildly skewed by the superiority of his machinery and team compared to those of the vast majority of his competitors. He's spent literally zero time on a satellite ride, an Open bike, an off-brand bike, or anything other than the top-shelf Honda. His entire career, he's hit the track with the best bike beneath him and best team behind him, and most of that time he hasn't even been asked to win. He's taken very few chances, knowing he's just the highly-paid caddy to his more successful teammate.

Podiums come easy on a Repsol Honda, especially when all your rivals constantly come and go, and they have to try to win.

Quote:Was a shame what happened to Hayden, by all accounts he was a great motorcyclist and man.
No doubt.

My only issue with you concerning Nicky is your oft-repeated contention that he didn't really deserve his title, as if Rossi was the only guy beset with poor luck in 2006.

I just watched the 2006 finale from Valencia the other day. Lost amid all the talk of Rossi crashing is the fact that even before he crashed Rossi was never a contender in that race, while Nicky was cruising comfortably at the front behind the two Ducatis. It sure looked like Nicky had plenty in hand to overtake them, had it proven necessary in order to secure the title. Instead, he cruised comfortably behind them, knowing he only needed to stay upright to earn the title.

Despite giving Dani praise for his podiums, you withhold that same praise for Nicky's 2006 season, during which his consistency at the front was unmatched by any other rider on the grid, Rossi included.

You can't have it both ways.

Quote:I'm sure the CB1000R is going to be a fantastic bike. It will run and handle and still be reliable and have fantastic fit and finish like all Honda's. I just cannot abide a motorcycle that doesn't have a rear fender.
I don't like that swingarm-mounted fender, but I don't really care, either. On bikes as modern-looking as the new CB1000R, those sorts of niggling details don't concern me.

Besides, such things are easily remedied.

Quote:And it has quite possibly the ugliest exhaust pipe I have ever seen.
Not even close. The Z1000's and older Ninja 1000's pipes are much worse, as is the bazooka on the current GSX-R1000, never mind the monstrosities adorning the Suzuki B-King.

If I really think about it, there are probably a couple-few dozen uglier pipes than the new CB1000R's.

Quote:I will go to my grave not understanding undertails and tiny little tail lights and turn signals. I know many like that style, and although they look good on a cafe racer with a bum seat and clip on's, it just doesn't look right to me on a roadster type bike. The street fighter look just never caught on with me. I don't care for ape hangers either, or peanut tanks, single seats or foot forward pegs either. But I do believe in to each their own. Personally I prefer some color, some chrome, and some symmetry.
Couldn't agree more.

[LongRanger_imp]

I can't comment on buzziness at higher rpm's, but I imagine others here can. I rarely take the bike over 4000 rpm (what's that, like 80 mph?) and I've never taken it over 5000 rpm. Certainly, between 2500 and 4000 rpm, the CB has plenty of juice. Good, smooth, bottomless torque -- just right for sensible street riding. I've got more suitable toys for sustained high speed (90-120 mph) riding. These days, however, I'm finding less and less enjoyment from those antics.

[Cormanus]

Being a bloke who rides without a screen, I find sustained riding at anything more than about 120 kph (a smidge over 4000 rpm on my 2011) wearing. At that speed and below I can ride it all day. And do.

[Banned_imp]

VLJ, I think you've nailed the evocative side of owning a CB. We don't buy these bikes for the spec sheet. Lord knows there are many bikes that can slap a CB around. But none I've come across brings the emotional appeal, the inner glow, the pride of ownership, the build quality, that the CB does. It's such a well executed motorbike. For the type of riding you're aspiring towards, I personally can't think of a nicer bike. By the way, don't kid yourself -- the CB gets with the business when you twist the go handle.

I agree 100%.

My Buell is more powerful, more comfortable seating position (and seat) and has better suspension but I much prefer riding the CB. I can't put my finger on it but it has some type of spell on me.

[flynrider]

VLJ, I think you've nailed the evocative side of owning a CB. We don't buy these bikes for the spec sheet. Lord knows there are many bikes that can slap a CB around. But none I've come across brings the emotional appeal, the inner glow, the pride of ownership, the build quality, that the CB does. It's such a well executed motorbike. For the type of riding you're aspiring towards, I personally can't think of a nicer bike. By the way, don't kid yourself -- the CB gets with the business when you twist the go handle.

I hope you're right, and I hope that "go" isn't accompanied by excessive vibration. By nearly all accounts the CB1100 is super-smooth below 5K rpm, and its vibes only come to the fore in the upper reaches of the tach. Most of those same people also describe those upper reaches of the tach as being where the CB's extra hp finally allows the big CB to overtake the T120, which otherwise accelerates harder and feels more powerful everywhere.

If the CB achieves somewhat decent speed only by zipping it up into its buzzy zone, and that buzzy zone is consistently annoying, yep, that would certainly bother me. The XSR accelerates like a maniac down low and throughout the midrange, yet I still spend a good percentage of my time on my favorite race roads in the 9-11.5K rpm range. I did the same with my Street Triple R, CBR600, my GSX-R's, etc. If a motor has rev potential, I exploit that potential. I love a quick-revving motor, which is one reason why I love the XSR's Triple, and why I'm sure I would love the Z900's smooth, zippy mill.

My main worry is that my XSR absolutely annihilates the T120 everywhere, including down low, where the T120 is supposed to be so punchy. I'm talking a night-and-day difference. with the T120 feeling positively slow following any ride on the XSR. At the same time, most reviewers say the T120 feels more powerful and accelerates harder than the CB1100, even the slightly more powerful '17 CB1100, so I can't help but imagine how slow it might seem compared to the XSR. I'd be okay with that, as long as it at least has some giddy-up in the higher revs, but not if those higher revs are accompanied by annoying buzz, which isn't the case with the XSR.

I hadn't thought about it, but yeah, you're right, what a breath of fresh air this place is, in terms of being able to conduct a conversation in a logical order.
By the way, mickey, for the record, I should come clean and admit that this forum and you specifically play large roles in why I want to own a CB1100. Even though we seem to have very different riding styles, I probably connect more with you and your way of thinking than with anyone else on the various boards. Rarely if ever do I find that I disagree with you regarding motorcycles, or motorcycling; the new CB1000R being one obvious exception. In the main, you value the same aspects of motorcycling that I do, so your unwavering support for the CB goes a long way with me.

Also, you're honest enough about the CB to tell me right out there for all the world to see that you think it won't satisfy me, so I know you're not sugarcoating everything.

Now, if only you could get the Dani vs Nicky thing sorted, we'd be like brothers from another mother.

Thanks for the kind words. Just a life long motorcyclist of German heritage from a family of lifelong motorcyclists of German heritage with obnoxiously stubborn notions of how things should be, but a willingness to listen, and ponder, and maybe, just maybe change my mind lol

on the Nicky/Dani thing. Did you know Pedrosa had the second most podiums last year. More than Dovi, more than Vinales, more than Rossi? Only Marquez had more podiums. The little guy continues to amaze me. Was a shame what happened to Hayden, by all accounts he was a great motorcyclist and man.

I'm sure the CB1000R is going to be a fantastic bike. It will run and handle and still be reliable and have fantastic fit and finish like all Honda's. I just cannot abide a motorcycle that doesn't have a rear fender. And it has quite possibly the ugliest exhaust pipe I have ever seen. I will go to my grave not understanding undertails and tiny little tail lights and turn signals. I know many like that style, and although they look good on a cafe racer with a bum seat and clip on's, it just doesn't look right to me on a roadster type bike. The street fighter look just never caught on with me. I don't care for ape hangers either, or peanut tanks, single seats or foot forward pegs either. But I do believe in to each their own. Personally I prefer some color, some chrome, and some symmetry.

Ditto

Quote:with obnoxiously stubborn notions of how things should be
DITTO!

Quote:but a willingness to listen, and ponder, and maybe, just maybe change my mind lol
Well, I'm trying. Thus, the CB1100 thing.

Quote:on the Nicky/Dani thing. Did you know Pedrosa had the second most podiums last year. More than Dovi, more than Vinales, more than Rossi? Only Marquez had more podiums. The little guy continues to amaze me.
Not really a true indicator of anything significant. He's on a Repsol Honda, and he was healthy the entire season. The only other guy on a similar machine beats him like a drum every year. Dovi, Vinales, and Rossi were on bikes that simply didn't work at some tracks, or in extreme weather conditions. The 2017 Factory Yamaha worked neither in the wet nor in extreme heat, and 2017 offered an unusual number of mixed-condition races. Also, Rossi was hurt for too much of the year for his numbers to matter.

Dani is great, no doubt, but his numbers will never matter because they're so wildly skewed by the superiority of his machinery and team compared to those of the vast majority of his competitors. He's spent literally zero time on a satellite ride, an Open bike, an off-brand bike, or anything other than the top-shelf Honda. His entire career, he's hit the track with the best bike beneath him and best team behind him, and most of that time he hasn't even been asked to win. He's taken very few chances, knowing he's just the highly-paid caddy to his more successful teammate.

Podiums come easy on a Repsol Honda, especially when all your rivals constantly come and go, and they have to try to win.

Quote:Was a shame what happened to Hayden, by all accounts he was a great motorcyclist and man.
No doubt.

My only issue with you concerning Nicky is your oft-repeated contention that he didn't really deserve his title, as if Rossi was the only guy beset with poor luck in 2006.

I just watched the 2006 finale from Valencia the other day. Lost amid all the talk of Rossi crashing is the fact that even before he crashed Rossi was never a contender in that race, while Nicky was cruising comfortably at the front behind the two Ducatis. It sure looked like Nicky had plenty in hand to overtake them, had it proven necessary in order to secure the title. Instead, he cruised comfortably behind them, knowing he only needed to stay upright to earn the title.

Despite giving Dani praise for his podiums, you withhold that same praise for Nicky's 2006 season, during which his consistency at the front was unmatched by any other rider on the grid, Rossi included.

You can't have it both ways.

Quote:I'm sure the CB1000R is going to be a fantastic bike. It will run and handle and still be reliable and have fantastic fit and finish like all Honda's. I just cannot abide a motorcycle that doesn't have a rear fender.
I don't like that swingarm-mounted fender, but I don't really care, either. On bikes as modern-looking as the new CB1000R, those sorts of niggling details don't concern me.

Besides, such things are easily remedied.

Quote:And it has quite possibly the ugliest exhaust pipe I have ever seen.
Not even close. The Z1000's and older Ninja 1000's pipes are much worse, as is the bazooka on the current GSX-R1000, never mind the monstrosities adorning the Suzuki B-King.

If I really think about it, there are probably a couple-few dozen uglier pipes than the new CB1000R's.

Quote:I will go to my grave not understanding undertails and tiny little tail lights and turn signals. I know many like that style, and although they look good on a cafe racer with a bum seat and clip on's, it just doesn't look right to me on a roadster type bike. The street fighter look just never caught on with me. I don't care for ape hangers either, or peanut tanks, single seats or foot forward pegs either. But I do believe in to each their own. Personally I prefer some color, some chrome, and some symmetry.
Couldn't agree more.

I get a high frequency buzz at typical highway speeds in 5th gear ('13 model), which is around 4200 rpm. It's not bad and I hardly notice it. The thing is, if you run it up to 5000 rpm and above, the buzz disappears completely.

As such, I often tend find myself riding down the freeway in 4th gear because it's so smooth.

[Cormanus]

I was hoping you'd chime in Flynrider. I recall you enjoy riding at higher revs and had commented on buzz, but I couldn't remember where and I didn't really have time to search it out.

[VLJ_imp]

Cormanus, 80 mph is only 4K rpm?

Wow. That's awesome, and yeah, for sportier riding I can then see where it might prove unnecessary to go above 5K.

[LongRanger_imp]

Cormanus has a 5 speed and my '14 (and the '17) is a 6 speed. Not sure if there's a difference in cruising speed at a given rpm between the two. 3000 rpm on mine shows 65 mph.