How dealers lose the sale

[LongRanger_imp]

Ferret, you took my words. Great review VLJ. I too am getting tired of seeing bikes with ultra-wide gas tanks (think R1200RT). Haven't seen the Z900 series yet.

[the Ferret]

Think Triumph Rocket 3 roadster lol

[VLJ_imp]

mickey, I didn't get to ride the Z900RS, so I can't offer a ride report or any sort of hands-on functional comparo to my XSR. I was only able to sit on it and hear it run while blipping the throttle.

What I can now tell for certain, however, is that my XSR is a whole lot lighter, narrower, shorter (wheelbase and seat height), and, with my Dimotiv bar risers, more comfortable. Having read about twenty ride reviews of the Z900RS, I am 100% certain that my bike will out-handle and out-brake it, while accelerating a whole lot harder. I'm also certain that my bike has greater ground clearance and is much more flickable. I'll bet that the Z900RS has a plusher ride, though. Lastly, my bike doesn't have any of the jerky-throttle fueling issues of the Z900RS.

Now, keep in mind, this isn't really a fair, apples-to-apples fight here. My bike has braided steel lines and HH pads, so I have an advantage there in initial bite and overall sharpness. I have a full Akropovic carbon exhaust with a matching reflashed ECU and AIS block-offs, so not only is my fueling that much better again, but the bike also dropped a good ten lbs while adding ten rwhp, a couple ft-lbs of torque, and a whole buttload of midrange punch. At this point, my XSR produces the same rwhp as a Z900, so roughly a dozen more than a Z900RS, while weighing fifty lbs less. My suspension has also been set up properly for my weight and riding style, and XSR900 suspension is not the same as FZ/MT-09 suspension. The XSR's shock is significantly firmer than the MT's, both in terms of spring rate and damping.

So, no, it's not really a fair fight, comparing the performance of my XSR to the new Z900RS. Even bone stock, though, I'm certain my XSR was still much sportier, albeit a bit less comfortable.

[Guth_imp]

Hey VLJ, I'll add my thanks as well for the insights you've shared regarding the Z900RS.

[Cormanus]

Hey VLJ, I'll add my thanks as well for the insights you've shared regarding the Z900RS.

+1. Thanks VLJ.

[Beerman_imp]

Reading over this thread, I feel fortunate that I did not have to deal with the most of the issues being discussed. I did not hesitate to pay full price for my CB1100. There were no test rides involved, nor did I ask for one as I had ordered my CB before they had even arrived here in North America. As soon as I saw the photos of the bike that [url=https://rideapart.com/articles/honda-cb1100-spied-in-california]a Honda rep was "test riding" in California (long before Honda officially announced that they were going to release the CB1100 here) I just knew that it was what I wanted. I was never looking for anything more than what Honda had intended — a basic, but high quality retro standard that was was built with great attention to detail much in the tradition of a number of their classic CBs of the past.

That probably made things much easier (simpler) for me. I've never once worried about the price that I paid, nor have I wanted to trade my CB in on a newer model or for some other ride. I'm glad that I bought when I did as no version released since the original has held as much appeal for me. I can admire newer bikes that are being offered by other manufacturers, but none of these offerings have caused me to like my CB any less. While my CB1100 hasn't been perfect, I can still say that it's been great. I'm grateful that I still feel this way about "my bike". Preparing my CB for sitting idle this winter has made me realize that I myself am ready to come out of my "riding hibernation". I'm once again looking forward to jumping back on my bike when the right opportunity next presents itself.

With that in mind, I really feel for those of you that would like to purchase a CB1100 under your own terms and can't even find a dealer to at least work with you to some degree. I wish it weren't this way. It's a bummer to hear that this is how it is for so many who might otherwise also find enjoyment in the CB1100.

There's a philosophy in here that I rather admire - probably applies to more than just bikes.

Beerman

Well, it's certainly held true with me and vehicles. I've tended to focus on those vehicles that
A.)I really liked the looks of, and
B.)Truly sounded like they would fit my needs based on how I planned to use them

As a result, I've been pretty happy with most of my vehicles. I try to take good care of them and do as much work on them myself as I can. For these reasons, even though they are just objects, I do typically end up forming a bond of sorts with my vehicles and hang on to them for a fairly lengthy period of time. I'm coming up on the sixth year of ownership of my 2001 Toyota Tundra — I plan to drive it for many more years to come. I hung on to both vehicles that I owned before the Tundra for at least a decade each. I ultimately ended up selling my 1989 Toyota Pickup to my brother and my 1999 Audi A4 has been passed along to my son. I have very little doubt that the 2005 Honda S2000 purchased earlier this year will be sticking around for a very long time as I've become quite enamored with it.

I don't have as many motorcycle ownership stories since I stopped riding them right after high school. When I returned to motorcycling almost 30 years later, I purchased the only bike that had actually lured me back into a motorcycle dealer during my dry spell — a 1988 Honda Hawk GT. Now after more than a decade of ownership, I really should be selling it (I really planned to do so last fall) as I have accumulated too many vehicles at this time. I'm hoping that the Hawk ends up with someone else who will appreciate it for what it is just as I have. There are a few reasons why I did not end up selling it this year, certainly one reason being that I've grown quite fond of it, and I'll be sad to see it go. (And yes, I realize that it's only a "thing", lol.)

I've long been a fan of Honda products in particular for a variety of reasons. I've owned a good number of them over the years. Honda is very good at engineering and manufacturing products that have generally proven to be highly reliable. It is those projects that are obviously special to Honda (that typically end up being a few steps removed from their mainstream offerings) that I find so appealing. When this company decides to pay tribute to it's heritage, the results are generally very intriguing to me.

As with Honda S2000, the story behind the CB1100 really sucked me in. I was very impressed with Honda's willingness to create a new air-cooled engine, their first in over 20 years, just for this motorcycle. I don't think Honda was ever that concerned about how many CB1100s they would sell. While they obviously produced the CB1100 to be sold to the public, I believe that Honda was most concerned with Honda themselves (as opposed to the general public) when it came to developing this motorcycle. Over time, the CB1100 has evolved to reflect what more of what the public, or those outside of Honda, wanted in a retro machine (again, the CB1100 is very similar to the S2000 in this regard). While I think that the bike that Honda originally released in 2010 was a better reflection of what they themselves wanted to do, whether you're looking at a CB1100 from 2010 or from 2017, I think that you're looking at something that is pretty special. It was the same with the S2000 — I would say that the first generation of that machine was the truest to Honda's vision of what the car should be and it morphed over time to suit the general public. Every model year has it's own fans, but most all would agree that any S2000 is special.

I suppose Honda can get away with projects like these given their sheer size. I'll probably always view (and value) the CB1100 differently because of this take on things. I already viewed it as a special bike before I even got my hands on one, and owning one hasn't changed this opinion.

While I've been lucky with vehicles in this regard, there was a period of time where I went through guitars and stereo equipment like nobody's business. Cheaper than swapping motorcycles in and out all the time, but probably not by all that much as it turns out. Ironically, I have found that the less time I spend on the web reading about everything from bikes to cars to stereos and guitars, the happier I am with what it is I already own.

Ironically, I have found that the less time I spend on the web reading about everything from bikes to cars to stereos and guitars, the happier I am with what it is I already own.
Now isn't that just right!

[the Ferret]

mickey, I didn't get to ride the Z900RS, so I can't offer a ride report or any sort of hands-on functional comparo to my XSR. I was only able to sit on it and hear it run while blipping the throttle.

What I can now tell for certain, however, is that my XSR is a whole lot lighter, narrower, shorter (wheelbase and seat height), and, with my Dimotiv bar risers, more comfortable. Having read about twenty ride reviews of the Z900RS, I am 100% certain that my bike will out-handle and out-brake it, while accelerating a whole lot harder. I'm also certain that my bike has greater ground clearance and is much more flickable. I'll bet that the Z900RS has a plusher ride, though. Lastly, my bike doesn't have any of the jerky-throttle fueling issues of the Z900RS.

Now, keep in mind, this isn't really a fair, apples-to-apples fight here. My bike has braided steel lines and HH pads, so I have an advantage there in initial bite and overall sharpness. I have a full Akropovic carbon exhaust with a matching reflashed ECU and AIS block-offs, so not only is my fueling that much better again, but the bike also dropped a good ten lbs while adding ten rwhp, a couple ft-lbs of torque, and a whole buttload of midrange punch. At this point, my XSR produces the same rwhp as a Z900, so roughly a dozen more than a Z900RS, while weighing fifty lbs less. My suspension has also been set up properly for my weight and riding style, and XSR900 suspension is not the same as FZ/MT-09 suspension. The XSR's shock is significantly firmer than the MT's, both in terms of spring rate and damping.

So, no, it's not really a fair fight, comparing the performance of my XSR to the new Z900RS. Even bone stock, though, I'm certain my XSR was still much sportier, albeit a bit less comfortable.

I know you have been looking for a sporty more comfortable replacement for your XSR, so I'm taking it that the Kaw is scratched off the list?

[VLJ_imp]

mickey, the Z900RS was never really on my list. In the Kawi lineup, I'm more interested in the Ninja 1000 and Z900, and perhaps even the Z650, with different reasons for each.

I've always been interested in the Ninja 1000 for its hard bags, wind protection, relatively light weight, and major power. My worries with that bike center around the potential buzziness of the motor, which many people don't like, and the possibility of noisy turbulence coming off that windscreen. In my experience, any bike with an upright seating position and a windshield that you see over rather than look through has problems with noisy turbulence. I grew so fed up with this phenomenon on my ST1300 and V-Strom 1000, and also on the FJ-09 and Ducati Multistrada, that I swore off ever going that route again. Even with the XSR I've found that any windshield of a decent size creates noisy turbulence.

In the end, I always go with no windshield, or, in the case of the XSR, a shield that is so small that it only covers the instruments. I let the Kawi sales guy know that I wouldn't buy his Ninja 1000 until it passed a freeway test ride.

The Z900? It's about the motor, the fueling, the seating position, and the increased wind protection afforded by the shape of the tank and that unique seating position. This bike does nothing my XSR doesn't do, so it could only serve as a direct replacement, not an addition.

The little Z650 just fits me so well, and it's very affordable. Dirck's praise for it over at MC Daily has me interested in it. I love tiny, sporty yet comfortable bikes, especially when they have two-cylinder motors. Loved my old SV650, so I'm keeping an open mind about the Z650, and also the 2018 Yamaha MT-07.

I'm leaning against the upcoming Yamaha Tracer 900GT, mainly due to the windshield issue, as well as the cost. I have a hard time believing they've solved the turbulence issue by making the windshield slightly larger. If anything, it needed to be smaller.

The CB1100 EX has taken over from the T120, so that's my pick in a retro.

Lastly, there's the upcoming CB1000, which I really like. I suspect it will cost too much, however, and I'm nearly certain that the seating position is too aggressive for my reconstructed neck. Also, like the Z900, there appears to be nowhere to attach soft luggage.

I wouldn't add a Z900RS, nor would I replace my XSR900 with one. Too similar, and I prefer the Z900 in that instance anyway. I think it probably comes down to the CB1100 (the long-term choice: comfortable, and I simply love it) vs the Ninja 1000 (better touring bike that's still sporty), with the CB1000 having a shot if the price is roughly the same as the CB1100, which I highly doubt will be the case. Also, again, there's the issue with its seating position.

It's probably the CB1100, with the Ninja 1000 needing to pass the engine buzz/noisy turbulence tests before it could become a serious option. The CB1100 doesn't really worry me in any regard. I know I'll adjust to the slower motor and less sporty handling. Otherwise, its positives far outweigh its negatives for me.

[LongRanger_imp]

VLJ, I've gone down the same windscreen rabbit hole on too many bikes, just as you have. I couldn't agree with your conclusion more.

[VLJ_imp]

LongRanger, the windshield issue is one of the primary reasons I've been so attracted to the CB1100. Amazing looks, impeccable build quality, honest engineering, fantastic comfort, and smooth, quiet airflow!

I know the CB1100 will be the ultimate turnkey bike. Other than the factory heated grips, there is literally not a single thing I would add to the bike, or delete from it. No pipe swaps, or brake lines or pads. No seat swaps. No windshields. I would leave it 100% bone stock, and probably love it even more two years down the road than on the day I first rode it home.

That is an extremely appealing concept to me. I need some of that in my life.