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(06-26-2018, 07:30 AM)beardyweirdy@me.com_imp Wrote: (06-25-2018, 10:19 PM)Aussieflyer_imp Wrote: (06-25-2018, 10:42 AM)ohiorider_imp Wrote: Let me post this first. I weigh 162#, possibly 170-175# with boots, helmet, and jacket, and ride the bike solo 100% of the time.
I've had issues with the stiffness of the front forks on my 2014 'black' CB since day one. On semi-decent roads, it's fine. On many of our winter-damaged secondary roads, it is extremely brutal.
I initially purchased Ikon rear shocks which helped the suspension problem at that end. Also purchased a kit from another company that included a modified spring, damper rod, and Race Tech emulator valves. Did no good for me. Changed out the fork springs from 1.00 rated to .90 rated (softer) springs. Only slight improvement.
I decided to contact Race Tech. Their phone tech was a wealth of information, as was their documentation about mods that could be made to the Race Tech Gold valves.
There are various springs available that control when the RTG valve will open when a square edge bump is encountered. There are various preload adjustments that can be made to the RTG valve springs (don't confuse with fork spring preload.) There are accommodations for additional bleed holes to be drilled in the RTG valve body.
With all these options available to me, along with excellent phone support from Race Tech, I'm taking another pass at making the front suspension of my CB 1100 be 'all it can be.' We drilled the valve bodies this evening, adding two bleed holes to each valve, and will change the valve spring preload before installing them tomorrow.
There had to be a reason the the 2017 CB came from the factory with Showa Dual Bending Valve forks. One of our forum members swapped his original forks for these, with good results, as I recall. I'm hoping that with a bit more work, I'll be able to make the forks function as I'd like them to, so I can enjoy riding my 2014 CB on many of our scenic but less than smooth roads. Wish me luck!
Bob
Awesome Bob, very interested to read about your project, please keep us updated.
FWIW I researched and invested in the exact same approach you are taking but ended up going with fully adjustable Andreani cartridge inserts.
The early CB front end is about as basic as you can get so there is a compromise between too plush on the smooth roads and too harsh on rough roads / sharp edged bumps. The OEM suspension design is always going to give that kind of result. For your weight the Racetech spring calculator specifies 0.80 - 0.85kg/mm, are you installing that spring or the 0.90?
There's been a few others on the forum who have installed the emulators and consensus of opinion is that drilling out at least one of the extra oil passages is required. The dampening rods also need to be drilled to ensure that there's no restriction of fluid thus allowing the emulator to do all the compression dampening. Hopefully you can use those pre-drilled dampening rods already purchased.
With this type of suspension the fork oil weight determines the rebound dampening rate (lighter weight = fast, and heavier weight = slow) but the compression dampening is a matter of adjusting the emulator valve spring tension. Either way there is some work to be done whilst you experiment to find the right dampening settings to suit you. Sorry if I'm telling you what you already know, just saying all this to reinforce that emulators are not usually a plug and play solution ... unless those knowledgeable chaps at Racetech have already set up a CB and can set you straight on all the variables 
Good luck with the project.
Awesome Bob, very interested to read about your project, please keep us updated.
FWIW I researched and invested in the exact same approach you are taking but ended up going with fully adjustable Andreani cartridge inserts.
The early CB front end is about as basic as you can get so there is a compromise between too plush on the smooth roads and too harsh on rough roads / sharp edged bumps. The OEM suspension design is always going to give that kind of result. For your weight the Racetech spring calculator specifies 0.80 - 0.85kg/mm, are you installing that spring or the 0.90?
There's been a few others on the forum who have installed the emulators and consensus of opinion is that drilling out at least one of the extra oil passages is required. The dampening rods also need to be drilled to ensure that there's no restriction of fluid thus allowing the emulator to do all the compression dampening. Hopefully you can use those pre-drilled dampening rods already purchased.
With this type of suspension the fork oil weight determines the rebound dampening rate (lighter weight = fast, and heavier weight = slow) but the compression dampening is a matter of adjusting the emulator valve spring tension. Either way there is some work to be done whilst you experiment to find the right dampening settings to suit you. Sorry if I'm telling you what you already know, just saying all this to reinforce that emulators are not usually a plug and play solution ... unless those knowledgeable chaps at Racetech have already set up a CB and can set you straight on all the variables
Good luck with the project.
Hey Aussieflyer,
Did you drill out extra oil passages in your Andreani Cartridges?
Hi Beardy,
No, but I can see how my rather shabbily written post could give that impression. I should avoid posting messages in the late evening. I was referring to the Racetech emulators which have a couple of blanked oil passages. The Andreani cartridges have oodles of adjustment. One mistake i did make was ignoring the manufacturer's advice to use 5 wt oil, I used 10 wt. The heavier oil meant that I had to open the valving near the outer extremes of the range to find happy dampening settings. Next fork oil service (in a couple of years!) will be with 5 wt fluid. What are you using in yours?
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No probs, I'm the same and I'm probably about to do it... Just dashing for work, but I'll check what the shop put in there.
I like my Andreani's but do find that I have to back the compression damping right off to get any comfort on London's ever disintegrating roads. They are great on fast roads tho with the damping wound up a bit. It that state, slow bumps in town can be a bit of a bone shaker.
I had read somewhere about a mod to the cartridges to drill an extra oil way, thats why I thought yo might have done it. Think it was on a Duc. Scrambler forum... got go!
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I am very happy with the 2017 forks in my 2014.
Easy swap and a perfect ride on many different type of roads.
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Slowly but surely working toward a better (for me) ride on our secondary roads.
Now running with:
- .90 fork springs vs the 1.00 weight springs I originally used.
- drilled the Race Tech valve so that each now has four bleeds vs two. Recommended by Race Tech.
- Using Race Tech Blue valving springs, preload now 2 turns vs 3 turns
- running Honda 10W fork oil, 150mm below top of fork tube when compressed
- Ikon rear shocks
Is it perfect? No, but for me an order of magnitude better. (not really sure what 'an order of magnitude' really is
........ it just rides lots better.
Future options
- change from .90 to .80 fork springs (softer)
- install lighter Race Tech valve preload springs for quicker hydraulic release.
But the good news is, I'm beginning to put some miles on the bike now. Mostly shorter day rides of 70-100 miles, but prior to the changes, the bike sat most of the time. The CB sits in the garage between my 1991 R100GS with over 155,000 miles and the Moto Guzzi 1200 Sport with over 67,000 miles. Catching up with these old twins will be hard, but may, just maybe, I'm getting acclimated to the Honda 4 cylinder. I didn't ride them growing up, so the Honda nostalgia isn't part of my genetic makeup.
Bob
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(07-22-2018, 08:03 AM)ohiorider_imp Wrote: Slowly but surely working toward a better (for me) ride on our secondary roads.
Now running with:
- .90 fork springs vs the 1.00 weight springs I originally used.
- drilled the Race Tech valve so that each now has four bleeds vs two. Recommended by Race Tech.
- Using Race Tech Blue valving springs, preload now 2 turns vs 3 turns
- running Honda 10W fork oil, 150mm below top of fork tube when compressed
- Ikon rear shocks
Is it perfect? No, but for me an order of magnitude better. (not really sure what 'an order of magnitude' really is
........ it just rides lots better.
Future options
- change from .90 to .80 fork springs (softer)
- install lighter Race Tech valve preload springs for quicker hydraulic release.
But the good news is, I'm beginning to put some miles on the bike now. Mostly shorter day rides of 70-100 miles, but prior to the changes, the bike sat most of the time. The CB sits in the garage between my 1991 R100GS with over 155,000 miles and the Moto Guzzi 1200 Sport with over 67,000 miles. Catching up with these old twins will be hard, but may, just maybe, I'm getting acclimated to the Honda 4 cylinder. I didn't ride them growing up, so the Honda nostalgia isn't part of my genetic makeup.
Bob
Glad you are getting it dialed in for you.
Order of magnitude is like the earthquake Richter scale.
The next level of measurement is 10X the prior measurement.
So, in essence, you are stating that it is ten times better.
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(07-22-2018, 08:07 AM)SportsterDoc_imp Wrote: (07-22-2018, 08:03 AM)ohiorider_imp Wrote: Slowly but surely working toward a better (for me) ride on our secondary roads.
Now running with:
- .90 fork springs vs the 1.00 weight springs I originally used.
- drilled the Race Tech valve so that each now has four bleeds vs two. Recommended by Race Tech.
- Using Race Tech Blue valving springs, preload now 2 turns vs 3 turns
- running Honda 10W fork oil, 150mm below top of fork tube when compressed
- Ikon rear shocks
Is it perfect? No, but for me an order of magnitude better. (not really sure what 'an order of magnitude' really is
........ it just rides lots better.
Future options
- change from .90 to .80 fork springs (softer)
- install lighter Race Tech valve preload springs for quicker hydraulic release.
But the good news is, I'm beginning to put some miles on the bike now. Mostly shorter day rides of 70-100 miles, but prior to the changes, the bike sat most of the time. The CB sits in the garage between my 1991 R100GS with over 155,000 miles and the Moto Guzzi 1200 Sport with over 67,000 miles. Catching up with these old twins will be hard, but may, just maybe, I'm getting acclimated to the Honda 4 cylinder. I didn't ride them growing up, so the Honda nostalgia isn't part of my genetic makeup.
Bob
Glad you are getting it dialed in for you.
Order of magnitude is like the earthquake Richter scale.
The next level of measurement is 10X the prior measurement.
So, in essence, you are stating that it is ten times better.
Glad you are getting it dialed in for you.
Order of magnitude is like the earthquake Richter scale.
The next level of measurement is 10X the prior measurement.
So, in essence, you are stating that it is ten times better. Then, I exaggerated! 10 times better would be, well, incredible! But it is much better for me than when stock.
Bob
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(07-22-2018, 09:18 AM)ohiorider_imp Wrote: (07-22-2018, 08:07 AM)SportsterDoc_imp Wrote: (07-22-2018, 08:03 AM)ohiorider_imp Wrote: Slowly but surely working toward a better (for me) ride on our secondary roads.
Now running with:
- .90 fork springs vs the 1.00 weight springs I originally used.
- drilled the Race Tech valve so that each now has four bleeds vs two. Recommended by Race Tech.
- Using Race Tech Blue valving springs, preload now 2 turns vs 3 turns
- running Honda 10W fork oil, 150mm below top of fork tube when compressed
- Ikon rear shocks
Is it perfect? No, but for me an order of magnitude better. (not really sure what 'an order of magnitude' really is
........ it just rides lots better.
Future options
- change from .90 to .80 fork springs (softer)
- install lighter Race Tech valve preload springs for quicker hydraulic release.
But the good news is, I'm beginning to put some miles on the bike now. Mostly shorter day rides of 70-100 miles, but prior to the changes, the bike sat most of the time. The CB sits in the garage between my 1991 R100GS with over 155,000 miles and the Moto Guzzi 1200 Sport with over 67,000 miles. Catching up with these old twins will be hard, but may, just maybe, I'm getting acclimated to the Honda 4 cylinder. I didn't ride them growing up, so the Honda nostalgia isn't part of my genetic makeup.
Bob
Glad you are getting it dialed in for you.
Order of magnitude is like the earthquake Richter scale.
The next level of measurement is 10X the prior measurement.
So, in essence, you are stating that it is ten times better.
Glad you are getting it dialed in for you.
Order of magnitude is like the earthquake Richter scale.
The next level of measurement is 10X the prior measurement.
So, in essence, you are stating that it is ten times better. Then, I exaggerated! 10 times better would be, well, incredible! But it is much better for me than when stock.
Bob
Much better works!
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Glad it sounds as though you're getting it dialed in, Bob! I didn't "grow up" with Honda fours either, but admired them greatly when I started riding in 1979. Didn't have money to buy a CB750 then, and when I did have money, went right to BMWs.
I think I'm much happier with a modern Honda four; the original CB750s were top-heavy and crude compared with the CB1100.
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Everything I grew up with was an oil leaking, vibrating, bad electrics, bad suspension, bad brakes single or twin (and 1 triple) made in USA or Italy or Great Britain. Honda Inline 4s are just awesome by comparison!
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Yep, I can't say I agree with Cookie's assessment of early CB750's (and I owned two of them), especially considering everything else on the market at the time. The '73 Z1 and '75 GL1000 raised the bar even further. But yes, bikes of the 60's and '70's were crude and unrefined compared to what we ride today, no different than automobiles from those decades.
The final iteration of the SOHC CB750 was the '78 CB750F2, one of the fastest '750's on the market then, all 67 hp of it. But that bike is now 40 years old. Looking back in 1978, a 40 year old car then was a 1938 Ford coupe. Tough to compare that old Ford with a '78 Mustang.
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