Time to grow up: FIM rated helmet choices

[misterprofessionality]

You can always have someone purchase a helmet for you in Europe and ship it over to the States as "a gift" and then you fake the DOT stamp and that's it

'14 CB1100 STD 5 speed

I don't have any friends in europe but that's a great plan. I'd initially thought that would be a bad idea because they're technically illegal to wear in helmet states in the US, but a fake sticker would certainly solve that.

So, Today I spent some time on the phone with several helmet manufacturers. Arai, Shoei, and AGV. Some crushing conclusions were reached that make me feel like an idiot, and leave me more than little angry at the whole politically motivated market manipulation going on in the US helmet market. Here's the Q & A that I put in front of the representative on the phone from each of these companies, which they answered fully to my surprise.

Q: What are all safety standards that your helmet meets when sold in the United states? (Arai Corsair X, Shoei X14, AGV Pista GP R)
Arai: Snell 2015 and DOT
Shoei: Snell 2015 and DOT
AGV: FIM Homologated, ECE22.05 and DOT


Q: Is your helmet (Arai Corsair X, Shoei X14, AGV Pista GP R) the exact same model that was FIM Homologated when sold in the United States?
Arai: no. the Corsair X sold in North America has not been tested and is not the exact same construction/materials used on the RX-7V in Europe
Shoei: no. The X14 sold in the US is not the same X14 sold in the Euro market. The version sold in the US has only ever passed DOT and Snell 2015 (the crappy one)
AGV: YES. an AGV Pista GP R is the same no matter what country you purchase it from. However, they are still not stamped with FIM approval when sold in the US.



Q: Can I buy the European version of the helmet in the United States?
Arai: no. No official distributor is allowed to ship the helmet to your US address
Shoei: We do not sanction it but some distributors operate on Ebay. European market Shoei helmets have not passed DOT and would be illegal to use in the United states
AGV: n/a

Q: Do you or will you market any ECE 22.06 helmets in the US?
Arai: no. 22.05 only
Shoei: no. 22.05 only
AGV: see above

Conclusions:

We here in the United States simply aren't allowed to have the majority of the world's best helmets. The reason for this is Helmet manufacturers are afraid to market an ECE22.06 or FIM helmet here because it will not have a Snell badge, so they re-engineer their helmets to make the shell more rigid so that it passes, at minimum, snell 2015, change the name, and market an inferior product here. The one and ONLY exception is the monstrously expensive AGV Pista GP R, which costs between 1400 and 1700 Freedom Bucks. They market the same helmet anywhere, and don't give two toots about Snell. That's wonderful, but there's no way i'm going to spend that much. Helmets like the Shoei X14 and Arai Corsair X are just riding the reputation of their more authentic counterparts sold in Europe and Asia, without actually delivering the same construction and materials. Instead, what you get when you pay top dollar are helmets that **might** be as good as an FIM or ECE 22.06 helmet, but we'll never know. We'll never know because they'll never be tested on any other format than ECE 22.05 and Snell.

So, what is a boy to do? buy an essentially untested helmet for top dollar and have faith that it's "just as good" or go with what you know? the only thing i can scientifically prove is the safest helmet on the market in the USA are helmets with a Snell 2020 stamp. I may not have as much faith in snell, but I can't help but conclude that I have more faith in an inferior testing system than i do in a helmet that's untested. So, i've decided to settle on the idea that in the USA, i'm simply not going to get the real thing. I have to buy something that's just..."good enough." with that conclusion in mind, i'm going to go buy a Shoei RF1400 today. Comfort, quality, moderate weight, and as much safety as i can scientifically prove in the US. it leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but it is what it is.

le sigh.

Good on you for making the calls MP!!! Great and definitive info! I agree with the consensus here though that there may not be a real world difference in terms of protection...and while FIM "sounds" like it should be more realistic, the SNELL testing may actually be better at preventing catastrophic injury than FIM (while maybe not being as good at minimizing non catastrophic injury.) Who knows??? But as I sit here this afternoon at the office, with my CorsairX at my desk, I'm pretty comfortable with it on the ride home this evening...

You know what, the thing is, I actually don't doubt at all that a CorsairX or a X14 or whatever are great helmets with a ton of protection, comfort, and features. It's just the money. Money is an object for me, and I can't bring myself to spend it on guesswork. That's what all thes exhaustive research is really about. When i pull out my wallet It's a federal case, and I don't pony up until I feel informed. The problem with High end helmets in america seems to be that we aren't properly informed. the tests aren't being done. I just can't spend $800 when i'm not informed.

[tommymck]

You can always have someone purchase a helmet for you in Europe and ship it over to the States as "a gift" and then you fake the DOT stamp and that's it

'14 CB1100 STD 5 speed

I don't have any friends in europe but that's a great plan. I'd initially thought that would be a bad idea because they're technically illegal to wear in helmet states in the US, but a fake sticker would certainly solve that.

So, Today I spent some time on the phone with several helmet manufacturers. Arai, Shoei, and AGV. Some crushing conclusions were reached that make me feel like an idiot, and leave me more than little angry at the whole politically motivated market manipulation going on in the US helmet market. Here's the Q & A that I put in front of the representative on the phone from each of these companies, which they answered fully to my surprise.

Q: What are all safety standards that your helmet meets when sold in the United states? (Arai Corsair X, Shoei X14, AGV Pista GP R)
Arai: Snell 2015 and DOT
Shoei: Snell 2015 and DOT
AGV: FIM Homologated, ECE22.05 and DOT


Q: Is your helmet (Arai Corsair X, Shoei X14, AGV Pista GP R) the exact same model that was FIM Homologated when sold in the United States?
Arai: no. the Corsair X sold in North America has not been tested and is not the exact same construction/materials used on the RX-7V in Europe
Shoei: no. The X14 sold in the US is not the same X14 sold in the Euro market. The version sold in the US has only ever passed DOT and Snell 2015 (the crappy one)
AGV: YES. an AGV Pista GP R is the same no matter what country you purchase it from. However, they are still not stamped with FIM approval when sold in the US.



Q: Can I buy the European version of the helmet in the United States?
Arai: no. No official distributor is allowed to ship the helmet to your US address
Shoei: We do not sanction it but some distributors operate on Ebay. European market Shoei helmets have not passed DOT and would be illegal to use in the United states
AGV: n/a

Q: Do you or will you market any ECE 22.06 helmets in the US?
Arai: no. 22.05 only
Shoei: no. 22.05 only
AGV: see above

Conclusions:

We here in the United States simply aren't allowed to have the majority of the world's best helmets. The reason for this is Helmet manufacturers are afraid to market an ECE22.06 or FIM helmet here because it will not have a Snell badge, so they re-engineer their helmets to make the shell more rigid so that it passes, at minimum, snell 2015, change the name, and market an inferior product here. The one and ONLY exception is the monstrously expensive AGV Pista GP R, which costs between 1400 and 1700 Freedom Bucks. They market the same helmet anywhere, and don't give two toots about Snell. That's wonderful, but there's no way i'm going to spend that much. Helmets like the Shoei X14 and Arai Corsair X are just riding the reputation of their more authentic counterparts sold in Europe and Asia, without actually delivering the same construction and materials. Instead, what you get when you pay top dollar are helmets that **might** be as good as an FIM or ECE 22.06 helmet, but we'll never know. We'll never know because they'll never be tested on any other format than ECE 22.05 and Snell.

So, what is a boy to do? buy an essentially untested helmet for top dollar and have faith that it's "just as good" or go with what you know? the only thing i can scientifically prove is the safest helmet on the market in the USA are helmets with a Snell 2020 stamp. I may not have as much faith in snell, but I can't help but conclude that I have more faith in an inferior testing system than i do in a helmet that's untested. So, i've decided to settle on the idea that in the USA, i'm simply not going to get the real thing. I have to buy something that's just..."good enough." with that conclusion in mind, i'm going to go buy a Shoei RF1400 today. Comfort, quality, moderate weight, and as much safety as i can scientifically prove in the US. it leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but it is what it is.

le sigh.

Good on you for making the calls MP!!! Great and definitive info! I agree with the consensus here though that there may not be a real world difference in terms of protection...and while FIM "sounds" like it should be more realistic, the SNELL testing may actually be better at preventing catastrophic injury than FIM (while maybe not being as good at minimizing non catastrophic injury.) Who knows??? But as I sit here this afternoon at the office, with my CorsairX at my desk, I'm pretty comfortable with it on the ride home this evening...

You know what, the thing is, I actually don't doubt at all that a CorsairX or a X14 or whatever are great helmets with a ton of protection, comfort, and features. It's just the money. Money is an object for me, and I can't bring myself to spend it on guesswork. That's what all thes exhaustive research is really about. When i pull out my wallet It's a federal case, and I don't pony up until I feel informed. The problem with High end helmets in america seems to be that we aren't properly informed. the tests aren't being done. I just can't spend $800 when i'm not informed.

I don't have any friends in europe but that's a great plan. I'd initially thought that would be a bad idea because they're technically illegal to wear in helmet states in the US, but a fake sticker would certainly solve that.

So, Today I spent some time on the phone with several helmet manufacturers. Arai, Shoei, and AGV. Some crushing conclusions were reached that make me feel like an idiot, and leave me more than little angry at the whole politically motivated market manipulation going on in the US helmet market. Here's the Q & A that I put in front of the representative on the phone from each of these companies, which they answered fully to my surprise.

Q: What are all safety standards that your helmet meets when sold in the United states? (Arai Corsair X, Shoei X14, AGV Pista GP R)
Arai: Snell 2015 and DOT
Shoei: Snell 2015 and DOT
AGV: FIM Homologated, ECE22.05 and DOT


Q: Is your helmet (Arai Corsair X, Shoei X14, AGV Pista GP R) the exact same model that was FIM Homologated when sold in the United States?
Arai: no. the Corsair X sold in North America has not been tested and is not the exact same construction/materials used on the RX-7V in Europe
Shoei: no. The X14 sold in the US is not the same X14 sold in the Euro market. The version sold in the US has only ever passed DOT and Snell 2015 (the crappy one)
AGV: YES. an AGV Pista GP R is the same no matter what country you purchase it from. However, they are still not stamped with FIM approval when sold in the US.



Q: Can I buy the European version of the helmet in the United States?
Arai: no. No official distributor is allowed to ship the helmet to your US address
Shoei: We do not sanction it but some distributors operate on Ebay. European market Shoei helmets have not passed DOT and would be illegal to use in the United states
AGV: n/a

Q: Do you or will you market any ECE 22.06 helmets in the US?
Arai: no. 22.05 only
Shoei: no. 22.05 only
AGV: see above

Conclusions:

We here in the United States simply aren't allowed to have the majority of the world's best helmets. The reason for this is Helmet manufacturers are afraid to market an ECE22.06 or FIM helmet here because it will not have a Snell badge, so they re-engineer their helmets to make the shell more rigid so that it passes, at minimum, snell 2015, change the name, and market an inferior product here. The one and ONLY exception is the monstrously expensive AGV Pista GP R, which costs between 1400 and 1700 Freedom Bucks. They market the same helmet anywhere, and don't give two toots about Snell. That's wonderful, but there's no way i'm going to spend that much. Helmets like the Shoei X14 and Arai Corsair X are just riding the reputation of their more authentic counterparts sold in Europe and Asia, without actually delivering the same construction and materials. Instead, what you get when you pay top dollar are helmets that **might** be as good as an FIM or ECE 22.06 helmet, but we'll never know. We'll never know because they'll never be tested on any other format than ECE 22.05 and Snell.

So, what is a boy to do? buy an essentially untested helmet for top dollar and have faith that it's "just as good" or go with what you know? the only thing i can scientifically prove is the safest helmet on the market in the USA are helmets with a Snell 2020 stamp. I may not have as much faith in snell, but I can't help but conclude that I have more faith in an inferior testing system than i do in a helmet that's untested. So, i've decided to settle on the idea that in the USA, i'm simply not going to get the real thing. I have to buy something that's just..."good enough." with that conclusion in mind, i'm going to go buy a Shoei RF1400 today. Comfort, quality, moderate weight, and as much safety as i can scientifically prove in the US. it leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but it is what it is.

le sigh.

Good on you for making the calls MP!!! Great and definitive info! I agree with the consensus here though that there may not be a real world difference in terms of protection...and while FIM "sounds" like it should be more realistic, the SNELL testing may actually be better at preventing catastrophic injury than FIM (while maybe not being as good at minimizing non catastrophic injury.) Who knows??? But as I sit here this afternoon at the office, with my CorsairX at my desk, I'm pretty comfortable with it on the ride home this evening...

You know what, the thing is, I actually don't doubt at all that a CorsairX or a X14 or whatever are great helmets with a ton of protection, comfort, and features. It's just the money. Money is an object for me, and I can't bring myself to spend it on guesswork. That's what all thes exhaustive research is really about. When i pull out my wallet It's a federal case, and I don't pony up until I feel informed. The problem with High end helmets in america seems to be that we aren't properly informed. the tests aren't being done. I just can't spend $800 when i'm not informed. To be honest, I don't think that $800 is worth it in any case. I have more money than sense (not that I have a ton of either) and I just find the Arai helmets super comfortable and the CorsariX in particular very quiet. I certainly understand where you are coming from.

[Houtman_imp]

My head is certainly worth the money I spend on my Aria Signet X helmet , fits perfectly and well made , perhaps other riders think that their head is worth a lot less. It is YOUR choice !

[Mtneers]

I spent more last October on my current helmet (Shoei Neotec II Excursion) than I’ve ever spent on one before. No regrets. Light and fits great. Not sure how you an assign a value to your head.


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[emptysea]

Extremely interesting information you were able to gather, MP. This thread is most informative.

I seem to be in a quagmire on this though. Can't seem to get past the notion that the incremental increase in safety between the FIM helmets and a "crap" Snell 2015 helmet is statistically insignificant. Yes, of course it's possible, I would even concede probable, that a fall involving the head hitting the pavement would include rotational inertia, but to what degree? I think one looks at only half (or less of the equation) if one focuses only on the number of fatalities related to head trauma. Wouldn't we also have to know how many non-fatal crashes involved impact to the head of the driver and what, if any, long-term effects that impact had on that population? It is at least theoretically possible that some degree of rotational inertia is mitigated in a Snell 2015 helmet.

I wear the best gear I can afford. But if I really wanted 100% protection from a motorcycle crash, I would not spend any money at all. I would actually gain a little money by selling off my bike and gear and binge-watching Bosch or whatever the next fun detective series is. My point is that it's all a compromise. Everything from wearing jeans instead of leathers, to mesh versus leather versus airbag vests, to disabling the kill-switch from one's kickstand So, the questions that remain unanswered for me are whether the FIM/SHARP helmets really are significantly safer in the world in which I operate my motorcycle and if the increased cost of said protection is within my budget. I think I'm going to base that final decision on my friend, MisterProfessionality's, significant research on this topic.

[j3gq_imp]

@mtc
agree with your words to the last dot,
@mp
good job, me personally, this helps a lot, thank you!

and the smallest common denominator?
if you wear a modular helmet, never ride when it’s open, b-cause this will ( in almost every case scenario ) induce the high torque which might kill you.

[the Ferret]

Funny... one time I heard of a wrongful death case. The plaintiffs were asking for several million dollars for recompense for the loss of their loved one. Before passing judgement, the judge asked if the deceased had any life insurance. The plaintiff's attorney said, Yes he did your honor, but only in the amount of $ 50,000.00. The judge thought about it a minute and said, so he valued his own life at $50,000 but you feel it's worth several million now that he's dead?

What has this got to do with buying a helmet? It's the same as trying to place a value on your head, and it's the same argument for buying any piece of gear..Shuberth, Caberg, Arai, Bell, Shark or HJC, Aerostitch, Klim, Tourmaster or Joe Rocket, Dainese, Alpinestars, Sidi or Bilt, Black gear, red gear, silver gear or Hi Viz gear, air bag gear.

99% of motorcycle riders buy gear based on affordability, style, color, fit, or comfort. Very few will choose items based strictly on safety. There are a few, but I see weaknesses in nearly everyone's protective gear wardrobe, including my own. Buying safety gear is a balancing act, and few of us have very good balance. We choose our gear based on our priorities and we take our chances.

What do ya think this guy thinks his life is worth?

[Mtneers]

I’m betting he’s wearing sandals.


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[the Ferret]

He was, but I was too close to capture his feet lol. I pulled up beside him at a traffic light, lifted the visor on my white $125 HJC modular helmet, while wearing my $89 Tourmaster mesh Hi Viz jacket, $30 Olympia mesh gloves, $30 Wrangler blue jeans and $50 Bass Pro Shop boots and chatted while the light was green.

I would venture to say everyone on this board dresses safer than this guy, but in the end we all are at risk, and we all feel we have protected ourselves adequately to our own satisfaction.

[GoldOxide_imp]

I’m betting he’s wearing sandals.


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