Time to grow up: FIM rated helmet choices

[GoldOxide_imp]

The politics are more than stupid, but its the science that matters.

I actually have a sneaking suspicion that there's some tiny difference between the corsair X and the rx-7v that isn't readily apparent and there's a reason why they distribute it in North America and don't pass it through FIM. No telling what though. I cant figure out why they'd change the name if there was zero difference.

Honestly, I'm kinda stumped at the moment because I wanted the Shoei offering, only to discover today that my head is going to require a size large in that helmet. The catch? Size large apparently didn't pass the top safety regulation. I'm not sure which way to turn now.

Does this make your head "spin" ?

... only if severed at the neck.


No DOT, SNELL, ECE, FIM, etc. will save the chicken neck.

[misterprofessionality]

The politics are more than stupid, but its the science that matters.

I actually have a sneaking suspicion that there's some tiny difference between the corsair X and the rx-7v that isn't readily apparent and there's a reason why they distribute it in North America and don't pass it through FIM. No telling what though. I cant figure out why they'd change the name if there was zero difference.

Honestly, I'm kinda stumped at the moment because I wanted the Shoei offering, only to discover today that my head is going to require a size large in that helmet. The catch? Size large apparently didn't pass the top safety regulation. I'm not sure which way to turn now.

Don't know if you watched the video, but SNELL and FIM were, until recently, mutually exclusive. The SNELL rating, if left as-is, wouldn't have been ECE/FIM compliant (the SNELL test is multiple direct impacts to the same location). This evidently made sense back in the day because the test was originally meant for race car applications. This lead to an emphasis on making the shells very hard. ECE/FIM determined that a more realistic motorcycle crash scenario was that the rider would be bouncing around along the ground, never hitting the same spot twice, and the emphasis should be on not transmitting glancing blows through the helmet, which argues for a softer shell.

So, SNELL decided to have two standards because they didn't want their label to be left off of EU helmets. They apply one standard (the double impact, leading to a hard shell) for the US market, and another standard (their second standard is designed to satisfy FIM, leading to a softer shell) for the EU market. The problem is that it's the same SNELL label, so you never really know which is which. Clearly from the Revzilla description, the Coarsair X uses the SNELL testing that satisfies FIM, but they won't say that specifically because it's a US market helmet and they don't want to imply that they have a double standard. The issue is that SNELL just won't admit that they've been wrong over the years. It's silly face-saving thing. And manufacturers are stuck having to provide different version to the different markets.

I did actually! F9 usually has something informative on most topics. I'd already read some similar sentiments on that subject though. the overall scientific revelations about Snell in the last couple of years is what's lead me to decide I need to make the jump to FIM in the first place. I no longer really trust anything with a Snell on it, So i feel i'm left with two choices: spring for a rare and valuable FIM helmet, or stay with my bare minimum sub-$200 ECE helmet. Nothing in between really strikes me as being worth the money.

That's an interesting clue you brought up about the Corsair getting the EU version of snell.. why would it require that rating if it wasn't an FIM compliant helmet? it's all a mystery. I'm resolved to get in contact with Arai and ask them point blank what's up with the Corsair X.

That said, I've been reading some reviews on the Arai and most seem to rate it noisier and heavier than it's competition...that's disappointing, since it's also more expensive.

I only buy the Aria's as they fit me very well and are high quality ones . I would go to a store and try different ones and if you pay more than on line that is ok as they are there to try them on and no shipping cost if you buy one on line and it does not fit well .To me it is important to keep the local dealer in business if he is a good one !

Which Arai are you using specifically?

[tommymck]

The politics are more than stupid, but its the science that matters.

I actually have a sneaking suspicion that there's some tiny difference between the corsair X and the rx-7v that isn't readily apparent and there's a reason why they distribute it in North America and don't pass it through FIM. No telling what though. I cant figure out why they'd change the name if there was zero difference.

Honestly, I'm kinda stumped at the moment because I wanted the Shoei offering, only to discover today that my head is going to require a size large in that helmet. The catch? Size large apparently didn't pass the top safety regulation. I'm not sure which way to turn now.

Don't know if you watched the video, but SNELL and FIM were, until recently, mutually exclusive. The SNELL rating, if left as-is, wouldn't have been ECE/FIM compliant (the SNELL test is multiple direct impacts to the same location). This evidently made sense back in the day because the test was originally meant for race car applications. This lead to an emphasis on making the shells very hard. ECE/FIM determined that a more realistic motorcycle crash scenario was that the rider would be bouncing around along the ground, never hitting the same spot twice, and the emphasis should be on not transmitting glancing blows through the helmet, which argues for a softer shell.

So, SNELL decided to have two standards because they didn't want their label to be left off of EU helmets. They apply one standard (the double impact, leading to a hard shell) for the US market, and another standard (their second standard is designed to satisfy FIM, leading to a softer shell) for the EU market. The problem is that it's the same SNELL label, so you never really know which is which. Clearly from the Revzilla description, the Coarsair X uses the SNELL testing that satisfies FIM, but they won't say that specifically because it's a US market helmet and they don't want to imply that they have a double standard. The issue is that SNELL just won't admit that they've been wrong over the years. It's silly face-saving thing. And manufacturers are stuck having to provide different version to the different markets.

I did actually! F9 usually has something informative on most topics. I'd already read some similar sentiments on that subject though. the overall scientific revelations about Snell in the last couple of years is what's lead me to decide I need to make the jump to FIM in the first place. I no longer really trust anything with a Snell on it, So i feel i'm left with two choices: spring for a rare and valuable FIM helmet, or stay with my bare minimum sub-$200 ECE helmet. Nothing in between really strikes me as being worth the money.

That's an interesting clue you brought up about the Corsair getting the EU version of snell.. why would it require that rating if it wasn't an FIM compliant helmet? it's all a mystery. I'm resolved to get in contact with Arai and ask them point blank what's up with the Corsair X.

That said, I've been reading some reviews on the Arai and most seem to rate it noisier and heavier than it's competition...that's disappointing, since it's also more expensive.

I only buy the Aria's as they fit me very well and are high quality ones . I would go to a store and try different ones and if you pay more than on line that is ok as they are there to try them on and no shipping cost if you buy one on line and it does not fit well .To me it is important to keep the local dealer in business if he is a good one !

Which Arai are you using specifically?

Which Arai are you using specifically? Can't speak for Houtman, but I've had Signet X, Quantum X, Defiant X and Corsair X. They all fit my head shape well (I have an Arai head...Shoei's don't fit me...), but the Corsair to me is the most comfortable. They are all plenty quiet to me, but the Corsair is (I think) the quietest. It weighs 3.5 lbs, exactly the same as the Shoei RF1200.

[michael1954]

I have always worn a helmet, never though otherwise, just my choices have gotten better as I was able to buy a decent one. Have been wearing an AGV Full Face for 2 years, but switch to an HJC RPHA 11 Pro Bine Helmet recently for the reduction in weight. It feels great and light, and breathes well. I also recently picked up a bright yellow Shoei RF-1400 Helmet. It fits tighter, but breathes just as good as the HJC. My last helmet, maybe forever, is going to be an Arai Signet-X Oriental Helmet, just because it looks so good and I have never owned an Arai Helmet before. I think the 3 of these are all excellent helmets when it come to protecting my head. I also have an HJC C91 Taly Modular helmet I wear on extended jaunts when then temperature hits 95F and over, but not to work on the frwy.
I know Modulars have a big following here on the Forum, but most of you guys wear a much more expensive one. I just wanted one for very hot days, and in beautiful Black & Fuschia! I think I am okay in the helmet world, just waiting to see how an Arai feels!

[j3gq_imp]

I know that many a things can be googled, but since I am only aware of the SHARP tests done in the U.K., and I trust them ... could you rapidly explain what FIM and SNELL mean ?

I do firmly disagree that expensive helmets are safe, and cheap helmets aren’t worth it. A recent, trustworthy test / publication in Europe shows that a 200 $ helmet from LS (made in china) beat all competitors by a wide margin. And not only for safety, but for noise and all the rest. Now, this said, by the same test standards, other, earlier LS helmets have missed the mark completely. It’s not the brand and not the money spent, it is - and nothng else counts - that this one helmet has been tested and is good. Apparently this is nowadays possible under 200 bucks.

[Houtman_imp]

I have the Aria Signet X in silver metallic , not the lightest helmet but fits me very well and extremely well made. As I always use foam ear plugs the noise is no issue. I have the Pinlock visor installed : a MUST !, never fogs up at all.

[misterprofessionality]

I know that many a things can be googled, but since I am only aware of the SHARP tests done in the U.K., and I trust them ... could you rapidly explain what FIM and SNELL mean ?

I do firmly disagree that expensive helmets are safe, and cheap helmets aren’t worth it. A recent, trustworthy test / publication in Europe shows that a 200 $ helmet from LS (made in china) beat all competitors by a wide margin. And not only for safety, but for noise and all the rest. Now, this said, by the same test standards, other, earlier LS helmets have missed the mark completely. It’s not the brand and not the money spent, it is - and nothng else counts - that this one helmet has been tested and is good. Apparently this is nowadays possible under 200 bucks.

I'm aware of SHARP ratings and follow those too. It's a good test with a lot of great science behind it. However, I haven't mentioned it because helmets that pass FIM usually pass SHARP with the full 5 stars. It's a foregone conclusion. They aren't at cross purposes.

Briefly, because another user explained it better than I can above, FIM is a testing system developed for professional racing, and FIM homologation is mandatory for all helmets used in Moto GP. This is because their testing methods, focusing on impact dispersion and protecting the brain from concussion as well as flexibility of the helmet and the ability ot absorb multiple random rolling impacts (like real life), are superior.

Snell is a safety rating distributed by an organization in America that focuses on testing the helmets actual structural integrity, primarily by applying two hard impacts on the same spot. Recent science has strongly suggested that this is a bogus testing method and that Snell is no longer exactly on the bleeding edge of keeping people alive. Knowing what I know now i don't really putt a lot of faith in that stamp anymore.

it's funny you mentioned LS because I think you're talking about LS2. The LS2 Thunder Carbon GP helmet is one of the ones on my list of possible buys. It seems like a really legit safety-conscious helmet and it's very very light weight. Lot's of prominent racers wear them. However, it wasn't at the top of my list because They don't make a white one....I'm just tired of absorbing so much sunlight.

Anyway, I wasn't saying that cheap helmets aren't worth it. I've been wearing cheap helmets all my life too. What I was saying was Expensive helmets that do not have an FIM rating are not worth it. For example, You can pay 150 for a Bell Qualifier, and that's lovely. It's ECE rated, decently comfortable, it's just "OK." that's worth 150 bucks. You can pay 780 for a Shoei X14. That's FIM rated, superior weight and comfort, superior noise reduction, and bulletproof superior quality. Totally worth 780 bucks. You can also spend $600 on a Shoei RF1400. The quality is there. The comfort is there. But the safety isn't. So why pay $600 when it really isn't any safer than my $150 helmet? That's what I was getting at. It's the "middle ground" i find to be not worth the money.

[NovaCB1100_imp]

I've got a lot of helmets, Shoei's, Biltwells, AGVs, and Bells. My favorite style hands down is the full face modular design, which now is a dealbreaker for me. You simply can't beat the convenience of not having to take off your helmet to talk, get some air, take a sip of water, etc.

My go to is the Schuberth C4. It was listed for $750 and I got it half price on a year end sale with revzilla. Its easily the best helmet I own and I will buy another one after this one is "retired." I even have the new AGV full carbon fiber, and it looks KILLER but its not as comfortable as the Schuberth!

[misterprofessionality]

NovaCB1100: were you talking about the AGV Pista GP? holy smokes. that helmet is 1600 bucks. I can't go that far lol.

As for the Schuberth, I took a look and it's got a high SHARP rating, which suggests it would do well on FIM, but like any Modular it hasn't been rated because they wouldn't bother to rate a Modular. Here's my issue with Modulars: weight. I've already got a heavy helmet. I don't want to pay over $700 for one that's not significantly lighter. Show me a Modular that's (at the very least) under 3 lbs. and we can talk.

I, personally enjoy taking the helmet completely off when I stop. I just want my whole head to be free, and I've owned modulars before. I don't get that feeling by lifting up the lid. I just ended up takign the whole thing off every time anyway.

[GoldOxide_imp]

Yeah, modulars are heavy indeed.

However, it would be interesting to learn how modern modulars stand-up to the modern test rigors. Are they still underperformers? Seems to be implied.