Wanderer or Route Rider ...which type are you?

[the Ferret]

In my experience, any time you ride with someone, or multiple someones, it requires compromises by all parties involved. The only way it couldn't is if you were riding with your clone.

Sounds like you are better off riding solo rotor.

[rotor]

In my experience, any time you ride with someone, or multiple someones, it requires compromises by all parties involved. The only way it couldn't is if you were riding with your clone.

Sounds like you are better off riding solo rotor.

Could be. But meeting someone half-way is a powerfull concept.

[emptysea]

Our esteemed moderators can feel free to move this to its own topic, but I'm not sure that a discussion about group riding is that far off-topic for this thread, so I will post here.

I had never heard the expression "pack riding" in this context before Rotor's comments. If he is using the following definitions, as procured from a motorcycle safety website (link below), then at least I understand some of his concerns.

Pack: a number of motorcyclists who ride together, generally without maintaining fixed positions or distances between bikes. Packs are occasionally seen with 20-50 motorcyclists in a single formation.

Group: a small number of motorcyclists who ride together maintaining a generally fixed distance between bikes and maintaining fixed positions within the formation (usually no more than six per group).


Here's what MSF has to say about group riding.
https://www.msf-usa.org/downloads/Group_Ride.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erpkyD7SMfw

Here's what an insurance company has to say about group riding.
https://www.esurance.com/info/motorcycle...cle-riding

Here's the safety website from which I got the above definitions.
http://www.msgroup.org/GroupRidingGuide.aspx

There are other sites and sources of information, but none of them said that group riding was inherently more dangerous than solo riding and some indicate that group riding is actually safer. It occurred to me as I read over some of the tips and rules for a safe group ride that they mostly are designed to prevent a "group" from becoming a "pack".

Incidentally, many of the characteristics that would define a "pack" are already illegal in most, if not all, states in the US -- side by side riding, passing within the same lane as another rider, and following to closely to name just a few.

I have ridden with groups that wander and groups that plan and had fun and safe rides with both. I have ridden in a "group" that devolved into a "pack" and I will not ride with those folks again...it was neither safe nor fun.

And to tie this all back to Rotor's original question, I echo TheFerret's comment that Rotor should probably ride solo. A ride leader has a responsibility to know where his riders are at any given point and some of the greatest places to ride are also the least conducive to electronic communication. I don't love the idea of hanging out in a hotel lobby wondering if one of my riders decided to turn around and go home or if he's laying in a ditch someplace. If I was Rotor's friend, I would indeed be relieved to know that I don't have that responsibility any more.

[jrns_imp]

Yup. Riding in proper staggered formation is pretty much standard practice on every ride I've gone on. Riding side by side in a big square however is a different story. There was a crash here last long weekend that sent 15 riders to the hospital -- they were riding like this, front rider clipped a motor home trying to pass, took rest of the group down since no room to maneuver.

I'm a little late seeing this Kmoney, but I remember this from the news. Terrible accident. I think it was in Quebec, and one of the bikers died at the scene...

[kmoney_imp]

Yup. Riding in proper staggered formation is pretty much standard practice on every ride I've gone on. Riding side by side in a big square however is a different story. There was a crash here last long weekend that sent 15 riders to the hospital -- they were riding like this, front rider clipped a motor home trying to pass, took rest of the group down since no room to maneuver.

I'm a little late seeing this Kmoney, but I remember this from the news. Terrible accident. I think it was in Quebec, and one of the bikers died at the scene...

I'm a little late seeing this Kmonkey, but I remember this from the news. Terrible accident. I think it was in Quebec, and one of the bikers died at the scene... That's the one. Horrible, but a teachable moment for why not to ride like this and why to pass one at a time.

[rotor]

Our esteemed moderators can feel free to move this to its own topic, but I'm not sure that a discussion about group riding is that far off-topic for this thread, so I will post here.

I had never heard the expression "pack riding" in this context before Rotor's comments. If he is using the following definitions, as procured from a motorcycle safety website (link below), then at least I understand some of his concerns.

Pack: a number of motorcyclists who ride together, generally without maintaining fixed positions or distances between bikes. Packs are occasionally seen with 20-50 motorcyclists in a single formation.

Group: a small number of motorcyclists who ride together maintaining a generally fixed distance between bikes and maintaining fixed positions within the formation (usually no more than six per group).


Here's what MSF has to say about group riding.
https://www.msf-usa.org/downloads/Group_Ride.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erpkyD7SMfw

Here's what an insurance company has to say about group riding.
https://www.esurance.com/info/motorcycle...cle-riding

Here's the safety website from which I got the above definitions.
http://www.msgroup.org/GroupRidingGuide.aspx

There are other sites and sources of information, but none of them said that group riding was inherently more dangerous than solo riding and some indicate that group riding is actually safer. It occurred to me as I read over some of the tips and rules for a safe group ride that they mostly are designed to prevent a "group" from becoming a "pack".

Incidentally, many of the characteristics that would define a "pack" are already illegal in most, if not all, states in the US -- side by side riding, passing within the same lane as another rider, and following to closely to name just a few.

I have ridden with groups that wander and groups that plan and had fun and safe rides with both. I have ridden in a "group" that devolved into a "pack" and I will not ride with those folks again...it was neither safe nor fun.

And to tie this all back to Rotor's original question, I echo TheFerret's comment that Rotor should probably ride solo. A ride leader has a responsibility to know where his riders are at any given point and some of the greatest places to ride are also the least conducive to electronic communication. I don't love the idea of hanging out in a hotel lobby wondering if one of my riders decided to turn around and go home or if he's laying in a ditch someplace. If I was Rotor's friend, I would indeed be relieved to know that I don't have that responsibility any more.

Canadian Province of Alberta motorcycle written test preparation booklet specifies a "two second separation" rule for motorcycles riding in a formation. At 50 mph, this is almost half a football field between the riders. Nobody, myself included, would call this "pack riding". I am talking about the groups riding together, in whatever geometry, where one rider follows another with a separation of two or three vehicle lengths.

[Ulvetanna_imp]

All my trips so far were solo wanderings. This summer I did 4.5 K kms loop with a friend (nice fellow!) who planned the trip day by day, booked accommodations, decided on stops for three meals a day...

Now my problem is how to tell him we will no more ride together without offending him. Any suggestions?

I'm with you; I reached that point many years ago. Nearly all the people I have ridden with over the years, with very few exceptions, ride competitively, erratically, unpredictably, or irresponsibly. Weekend Warriors and Keystone Cops, for the most part.

I don't want no part of that stuff now.

There was one guy I rode with for over 20 years who was an exception. Completely reliable, skills nearly identical to mine, and I'll wager I rode 200,000 miles with this man, with not a single mishap. We used to tail chase all over the place and nothing but good times.

Unfortunately he started experiencing some family, financial, and health issues for a time and it affected his riding, so I had to stop riding with him, too.

The last 50,000+ miles of my riding (about 3 1/2 years) have been alone by choice and I like it that way. The only group rides I do are track days.

I enjoy being self-reliant. If I screw up, it's on me and me alone, which is why I am extremely meticulous about bike preparation, safety, training, and setup, which includes attitude and health. There will be no one there to scrape me up. If I am off even a little, I don't ride.

Most people like to socialize and they wonder what's wrong with a guy who prefers to be a "lone wolf"; me, I really appreciate those moments far from home in the further reaches of nature where I encounter another loner and we exchange a brief but knowing wave and then disappear in one another's mirrors. 'Nuff said.

[the Ferret]

All my trips so far were solo wanderings. This summer I did 4.5 K kms loop with a friend (nice fellow!) who planned the trip day by day, booked accommodations, decided on stops for three meals a day...

Now my problem is how to tell him we will no more ride together without offending him. Any suggestions?

I'm with you; I reached that point many years ago. Nearly all the people I have ridden with over the years, with very few exceptions, ride competitively, erratically, unpredictably, or irresponsibly. Weekend Warriors and Keystone Cops, for the most part.

I don't want no part of that stuff now.

There was one guy I rode with for over 20 years who was an exception. Completely reliable, skills nearly identical to mine, and I'll wager I rode 200,000 miles with this man, with not a single mishap. We used to tail chase all over the place and nothing but good times.

Unfortunately he started experiencing some family, financial, and health issues for a time and it affected his riding, so I had to stop riding with him, too.

The last 50,000+ miles of my riding (about 3 1/2 years) have been alone by choice and I like it that way. The only group rides I do are track days.

I enjoy being self-reliant. If I screw up, it's on me and me alone, which is why I am extremely meticulous about bike preparation, safety, training, and setup, which includes attitude and health. There will be no one there to scrape me up. If I am off even a little, I don't ride.

Most people like to socialize and they wonder what's wrong with a guy who prefers to be a "lone wolf"; me, I really appreciate those moments far from home in the further reaches of nature where I encounter another loner and we exchange a brief but knowing wave and then disappear in one another's mirrors. 'Nuff said.

Ahh Ulve....Yet you visit motorcycle forums everyday to communicate with others, and to seek validation for your ideas, methods and riding style. Methinks you are not the "lone wolf" you think you are. (and there's nothing wrong with that)

Most Harley riders claim to be "Lone Wolves" even when riding in a pack of 300. It's natural to seek the company of others.

[Inhouse Bob]

But I have to respect someone who enjoys their own company. I get pretty tired of myself after a couple of hours

[Django]

Sometimes I enjoy riding and exploring alone. However, having dinner alone is boring.