Motorcyclist profiling

[2017EX_imp]

As an honorably retired Texas street cop with 29 years service, I had to add my two cents here. I have ridden motorcycles for 49 years, and many of my LE friends ride as well. The thing is that most of the time when we are off duty, we dont advertise what we do for a living, just as doctors and lawyers, among others dont. Fun time is fun time, and no one wants to hear profession related gripe stories from the people we meet off duty. Actually there are many individual, formal, and informal LE groups that ride.

Generally, many professions cut "civilians" a lot of slack, because those not in the profession are not expected to know what any given profession actually does or why. There is a lot of misconception about "profiling". In law enforcement, a profile is not just one or two factors, like riding a motorcycle and wearing leather, it is a combination of many factors when done properly. Actually, everyone profiles. You go to a social gathering and start talking to someone you have never met. Without realizing it, you take in how the person is dressed, what the person says, how the person says it, choice of words, the persons attitude, the persons grooming, and on and on. From everything you see and hear, you decide if you want to stick around and continue a conversation with this person, or politely excuse yourself and walk away. You have just profiled this person, and made a decision based on that profile. Correct use of a profile is always many factors, never just one or two. I think it would be fair to say that most of the decisions we all make, are based on multiple factors. On the other hand we all know that any tool can be mis used or abused.

One night on duty, I stopped an outlaw biker flying his colors, for stopping at a red light, and proceeding on before the light turned green. He said the light was stuck on red. I wrote him a ticket, and saw him go to a nearby gas station for gas. While he was gassing his bike, I went back to the nearby light to check it. It WAS stuck on red. I saw him leave the gas station, and chased him down a second time. He asked me why I was stopping him again, and I said I needed his copy of the ticket back that I had written him so I could void it because he was right that the light was stuck on red. Shoulda seen the look of disbelief on his face, it was priceless. It did not matter that he was an outlaw flying colors, or that his Harley was loud, or that he was wearing leather. It was the right thing to do for anyone.

Among other things, Texas requires a motorcycle endorsement on the drivers license to operate a motorcycle on any public street or highway. Several other states have something similar. Checking for that endorsement on the license, helps keep unqualified, and sometimes dangerous motorcyclists off the roads that we all have to share. I could go on and on, but at least maybe I have been able to give my fellow Forum members a little bit different perspective on the subject.

[the Ferret]

At the first CB1100 Forum Rally in 2015, our group was held up by a roadblock on the North Carolina side of the Cherohala Pkwy. LEO's were polite though and after checking licenses we were on our way. Whether they were stopping motorcycles only, don't know.

Yes they were stopping only motorcyclists and checking endorsement and insurance.

[gmike_imp]

I have been riding since 1967. Have been stopped 4 times all for speeding. Once for doing 85 in a 55 (open road, no traffic). I was cut loose each time other than a "fix it" ticket for no horn on a junker bike in about 1970. Fixed the horn, they wrote it off. My experience with LEO's has been great. I love'em.

[emptysea]

Thanks for your perspective, 2017EX.

[clearviewx]

As an honorably retired Texas street cop with 29 years service, I had to add my two cents here. I have ridden motorcycles for 49 years, and many of my LE friends ride as well. The thing is that most of the time when we are off duty, we dont advertise what we do for a living, just as doctors and lawyers, among others dont. Fun time is fun time, and no one wants to hear profession related gripe stories from the people we meet off duty. Actually there are many individual, formal, and informal LE groups that ride.

Generally, many professions cut "civilians" a lot of slack, because those not in the profession are not expected to know what any given profession actually does or why. There is a lot of misconception about "profiling". In law enforcement, a profile is not just one or two factors, like riding a motorcycle and wearing leather, it is a combination of many factors when done properly. Actually, everyone profiles. You go to a social gathering and start talking to someone you have never met. Without realizing it, you take in how the person is dressed, what the person says, how the person says it, choice of words, the persons attitude, the persons grooming, and on and on. From everything you see and hear, you decide if you want to stick around and continue a conversation with this person, or politely excuse yourself and walk away. You have just profiled this person, and made a decision based on that profile. Correct use of a profile is always many factors, never just one or two. I think it would be fair to say that most of the decisions we all make, are based on multiple factors. On the other hand we all know that any tool can be mis used or abused.

One night on duty, I stopped an outlaw biker flying his colors, for stopping at a red light, and proceeding on before the light turned green. He said the light was stuck on red. I wrote him a ticket, and saw him go to a nearby gas station for gas. While he was gassing his bike, I went back to the nearby light to check it. It WAS stuck on red. I saw him leave the gas station, and chased him down a second time. He asked me why I was stopping him again, and I said I needed his copy of the ticket back that I had written him so I could void it because he was right that the light was stuck on red. Shoulda seen the look of disbelief on his face, it was priceless. It did not matter that he was an outlaw flying colors, or that his Harley was loud, or that he was wearing leather. It was the right thing to do for anyone.

Among other things, Texas requires a motorcycle endorsement on the drivers license to operate a motorcycle on any public street or highway. Several other states have something similar. Checking for that endorsement on the license, helps keep unqualified, and sometimes dangerous motorcyclists off the roads that we all have to share. I could go on and on, but at least maybe I have been able to give my fellow Forum members a little bit different perspective on the subject.

I'd be curious what states and how many states do not require a motorcycle license to ride a motorcycle.

[emptysea]

Here ya go.
https://drivinglaws.aaa.com/tag/motorcycle-licenses/

It appears that all states now require some sort of license or endorsement to the regular driver's license.

[GoldOxide_imp]

Handy knowledge 2017EX - thanks for sharing.

[flynrider]

I haven't been pulled over since 1992. Before that, I used to get pulled over a lot, but most of the time for good reason.

I think if I got pulled over just because I was riding a motorcycle, I'd be a bit miffed.

[alprider]

I agree with Ferret. I find leaving the top box on takes "the edge" off the bike (i.e. adds scooter-like silliness) and an air of maturity.

Conversely, back in the 80's I was stopped quite routinely on my red Yamaha Seca 550. One time was winter (no snow on roads) and the officer proceeded to comment, "Why are you riding this time of the year" bull crap. I actually got a ticket and my group buddies did not.

Another time I was chased down by two police patrol cruisers for about two miles. Once I realized what was behind me, I made room for them to pass thinking they were going to an emergency. That is when the loud speaker blared something like, "Pull over immediately ... blah, blah". In typical "L.A." fashion, one cruiser stood back and covered the first cruiser officer. Traffic was hindered. I was pulled over for them thinking I was driving with an expired plate. I said, "Huh? Really?". Officer looked again, voice lightening up and said, "Wha is this? Hey, I had a Virago 920 blah, blah ... ". Anyway, plate was far from expired.

And then there was another time ... ah, I'll save the others for a possible future-related thread. Anyway, it seemed at the time that the strong red-coloured bike caught unwanted attention.

sorry what, i guess my english is to poor....you got a "invitation for government support" without realy a reason ?

[GoldOxide_imp]

I agree with Ferret. I find leaving the top box on takes "the edge" off the bike (i.e. adds scooter-like silliness) and an air of maturity.

Conversely, back in the 80's I was stopped quite routinely on my red Yamaha Seca 550. One time was winter (no snow on roads) and the officer proceeded to comment, "Why are you riding this time of the year" bull crap. I actually got a ticket and my group buddies did not.

Another time I was chased down by two police patrol cruisers for about two miles. Once I realized what was behind me, I made room for them to pass thinking they were going to an emergency. That is when the loud speaker blared something like, "Pull over immediately ... blah, blah". In typical "L.A." fashion, one cruiser stood back and covered the first cruiser officer. Traffic was hindered. I was pulled over for them thinking I was driving with an expired plate. I said, "Huh? Really?". Officer looked again, voice lightening up and said, "Wha is this? Hey, I had a Virago 920 blah, blah ... ". Anyway, plate was far from expired.

And then there was another time ... ah, I'll save the others for a possible future-related thread. Anyway, it seemed at the time that the strong red-coloured bike caught unwanted attention.

sorry what, i guess my english is to poor....you got a "invitation for government support" without realy a reason ?

sorry what, i guess my english is to poor....you got a "invitation for government support" without realy a reason ?
LOL - yes, and I recall arguing "that support" and things getting a little heated. The fact of the matter is the rookie officer was upset that riders were going out for a winter night cruise - definitely nothing serious - just exercising the machine.

Here is where the officer's attitude came in:

* The speed limit was 60 km/h (about 40 mph).
* A cruiser was going the same direction as us in the slow lane and at about 50 km/h.
* We passed at about 58 to 60 km/h. Note that we were **quite aware** we were passing a cruiser, but it was under/at the limit.
* No rider had an obnoxious sounding exhaust or anything like that.
* It took a couple of clicks to actually get a few hundred feet past the cruiser.
* That's when the rubies fired up.

Some of the officer's first uttered words were, " ... you passed me, and I can't stand that ... ". We were accused of passing at 80! And so the ticket and arguing started. I actually got the claimed speed down to 60 after presenting the common sense logic. So he found something else that I cannot seem to recall, but I got it waived at the courthouse. The whole ordeal was pretty pathetic.