The future of Harley-Davidson

[GoldOxide_imp]

I noticed nobody remarked about the Live Wire, even when it was echoed three times.

[Frulk_imp]

I think of the electric bikes the HDLW is the best looking of the bunch. Of course that’s a very subjective personal opinion. I just don’t understand HDs marketing strategy in regards to it. Cost wise it’s well beyond its current competition and lacking somewhat in performance specs vs cost ratio. It’s certainly at the low end of the bang for the buck spectrum. I want it to be a success. I just think HD had done everything it can to ensure it’s not. Time will tell. What we really should be discussing is the HD Street Fighter. Due to the press the HDLW is getting the Street Fighter is running well below the radar. I’m waiting patiently for it to show up in the showroom.

[GoldOxide_imp]

Maybe an interesting question, and quite possibly an old question:

If HD made, in every way, an equivalent CB1100 under the HD banner, would you consider it if the premium was 50 to 100% above the Honda offering?

Assume the "HD1100" does not leak oil and the gears shift smoothly.

[Cormanus]

No. But not because it’s HD. Because of the price point.

[GoldOxide_imp]

Spirited indeed.

[the Ferret]

Maybe an interesting question, and quite possibly an old question:

If HD made, in every way, an equivalent CB1100 under the HD banner, would you consider it if the premium was 50 to 100% above the Honda offering?

Assume the "HD1100" does not leak oil and the gears shift smoothly.

So you are saying would you pay 50%(or more) for the equivalent motorcycle with HD badging? My answer would be NO.

Even though I grew up in a HD household and my first bike was an HD, I would not pay more for one than I would for any equivalent other manufacturers bike. HD as a brand carries no more weight with me than Honda does, or Yamaha, or Suzuki, or Kawasaki

[pdedse]

Maybe an interesting question, and quite possibly an old question:

If HD made, in every way, an equivalent CB1100 under the HD banner, would you consider it if the premium was 50 to 100% above the Honda offering?

Assume the "HD1100" does not leak oil and the gears shift smoothly.

In every way equivalent? Then I wouldn't pay 1% more...why? But if the HD had a colore scheme that I liked a lot more, $300-400 max.

Maybe non-bike factors weigh-in: is the HD dealership considerably closer to where I live? That might matter a bit.

But 50-100% more for a name? No

[GoldOxide_imp]

So far it would appear (and is not surprising to CB Forum members) that HD would have to not just make a great machine, but be at or close to cost competitive and not add their usual heavy margin on the sticker price. HD has their work cut out.

and therein lies the issue, they are literally banking on just that, 'But 50-100% more for a name?' And that will be their downfall.

They cant play the 'made in america' legacy card on zero, either. Zero was there (e bikes) way before them.

Zero's workaround is to simply say, "Made In California".

[NovaCB1100_imp]

So far it would appear (and is not surprising to CB Forum members) that HD would have to not just make a great machine, but be at or close to cost competitive and not add their usual heavy margin on the sticker price. HD has their work cut out.

and therein lies the issue, they are literally banking on just that, 'But 50-100% more for a name?' And that will be their downfall.

They cant play the 'made in america' legacy card on zero, either. Zero was there (e bikes) way before them.

Zero's workaround is to simply say, "Made In California".

Zero's workaround is to simply say, "Made In California".
Yep....and...

The Zero SR/F is 90 HP, 140 TQ, costs 20k, 485 curb weight, 5 yr unlimited miles warranty, ~180 mile range

HD Livewire is 105 HP, 86 TQ, costs 30k, 549 curb weight, battery warranty is 5 yr unlimited miles, and ~146 mile range.

Dollar for dollar, its about the same package, although the Zero weighs less and has more TQ albeit with slightly less HP...and of course costs 10k less. If I was in the market for an electric bike, I wouldn't even hesitate to buy the Zero and honestly I wouldn't even ride the Livewire; it simply can't be $10k better.

[LongRanger_imp]

From Reuters 10/07/19:

CHICAGO (Reuters) - Harley-Davidson Inc (HOG.N) is betting on electric motorcycles to attract the next generation of younger and more environmentally conscious riders to reverse declining U.S. sales.

But as Harley ships its first “LiveWire” bikes - priced at $29,799 - to dealers, there is little evidence the 116-year-old brand is catching on with new young customers.

The problem lies mostly with this “super-premium” product’s price. The bike costs nearly as much as a Tesla Model 3, and aims for a market that does not really exist: young, “green” and affluent first-time motorcyclists.

The sleek sport bike has been available for preorder in the United States since January. However, the bulk of the orders are coming in from existing and old riders, according to interviews with 40 of the 150 dealerships nationwide that are carrying the bike this year.

The dealers Reuters spoke with account for little over a quarter of LiveWire dealerships and are spread across Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, California, Nevada, New Jersey and New York.

Harley has for years failed to increase sales in the United States, its top market accounting for more than half of its motorcycles sold. As its tattooed, baby-boomer base ages, the Milwaukee-based company is finding it challenging to woo new customers.

In 2018, Harley posted the steepest sales decline in four years in the United States. U.S. sales are tipped to fall again this year.