A shot at motorcyclists ...

[Nortoon_imp]

Two of the factors of riding gear and weather that the Ferret has mentioned is what I am struggling with.

Motorcycle gear is a hassle to get in and out of every time you stop at a restaurant or store. Its not too bad in the cooler seasons of spring and fall, but in the summer it is just too hot and makes the ride unpleasant.

My motorcycle season normally is only 6 months a year. Despite that I was able to an average of 11,000 kilometers per year from 2014 to 2017. But over the 2 years the climate here has changed. Last year the winter was longer, spring cold and wet, and the summer hot. I only managed to ride 4400 kilometers. This year it is worse. Winter was longer, spring colder and wetter, and July already blistering hot.

If that doesn't deter new riders, the cost of motorcycles, accessories, riding gear, and insurance certainly may. Despite never having an accident in 28 years of riding, my motorcycle insurance is more expensive than either my expensive home or car insurance.

Another other deterrent is traffic. If I lived in the city I would not own a motorcycle. Everything is so crowded and busy an accident can happen in the blink of an eye. It is a perilous and unpleasant chore, rather than a pleasant and scenic ride in the country.

[Ben70_imp]

Google "motorcycle riders as organ donors" and among many others, you will find a NYT article stating that riders provide the best source of high quality parts, as the relatively otherwise healthy young men which comprise the largest part of the demographic often suffer brain trauma leaving most everything else relatively unscathed.
Also, there is an uptick of available parts in areas not requiring helmets.
Heck, they should be giving away machines to riders that have donor cards, and make helmets optional if they are really concerned about the greater good!

Ben

[Stichill_imp]

Nortoon, you might be the perfect candidate for an Aerostich riding suit. All-weather protection, easy on=easy off. Might extend your riding season greatly. I envy a buddy of mine with the latest Olympia Air Glide gear. Waterproof, with big zip-open panels for fresh air.

With the longer daylight hours, especially further north, riding might be an activity that's restricted to morning and evening hours. If don't know about where you are, but even here in Kentucky we have daylight from about 6:30 am to 9:00 pm.

On the subject of car vs. bike economy, if it came down to economics alone and only one vehicle could be owned, I'd drive a car. I don't think a bike is really versatile enough to be sole transportation, especially in regions with actual winters. So I agree with ferret that motorcycle riding is more "want" than financial necessity. Now, an interesting situation would be if you had a cheap car as your second vehicle to a motorcycle as primary vehicle. The car would not have to be the newest or the most perfectly reliable. Heck, I have a spare car. It's a 2004 PT Cruiser with 175,000 miles that was my daughter's high school and college car. It's worth nothing, costs nothing to insure, and state property tax is negligible. I made it safe and reliable by installing new belts, motor/trans mounts, hoses, radiator, battery, brakes, tires, FWD half-shafts/CV joints, front struts, front roll bar bushings/links, rear springs/shocks, and front/read light assemblies. I made it livable with a new stereo and new hatch lift struts. Cosmetically it's in great shape. Hilariously my wife and I like going out in it with the sunroof open just for fun. I got the car back from my daughter for "free" and spent maybe $1500 plus my labor updating it. Drives like when it was new.

Google "motorcycle riders as organ donors" and among many others, you will find a NYT article stating that riders provide the best source of high quality parts, as the relatively otherwise healthy young men which comprise the largest part of the demographic often suffer brain trauma leaving most everything else relatively unscathed.
Also, there is an uptick of available parts in areas not requiring helmets.
Heck, they should be giving away machines to riders that have donor cards, and make helmets optional if they are really concerned about the greater good!

Ben

[LongRanger_imp]

In my experience the cost of motorcycle ownership per mile is considerably higher than an automobile, and like Stichill, if forced to have one or the other, I'd ditch the bike. The cost of tires alone -- $300 to enjoy 6000-8000 miles of riding, vs. $500 for 60,000 miles of utility in a car.

[Guth_imp]

As motorcyclists here in the States at least, we are more or less the Rodney Dangerfield amongst users of motorized transport. We get no respect. This is certainly nothing new. It has been this way for as long as I can remember. Our society has some very long held views of motorcycles and motorcycling that are "less than positive". Some of them are well founded while some of them aren't. I don't see this changing in my lifetime. But anyone contemplating getting around on just two wheels out on the street should be willing to acknowledge the inherit danger in my opinion. If this keeps more people off of motorcycles then so be it.

However, there are other changes afoot amongst younger people these days that also have an impact on motorcycling. My son is of the generation following the Millennials — Gen Z or the iGen depending on whom you consult. What stood out to me is just how many amongst this generation rejected or ignored not only motorcycles but cars as well. Some of them completely while others for maybe a year or a few years. They primarily choose to get around by mass transport instead. While such options were not available to myself and my friends growing up in a rural part of the country, we would have never contemplated this as an option even if it were available. But as I look around at the ever increasing amount of traffic that surrounds me I can't say that I blame them.

[misterprofessionality]

In my experience the cost of motorcycle ownership per mile is considerably higher than an automobile, and like Stichill, if forced to have one or the other, I'd ditch the bike. The cost of tires alone -- $300 to enjoy 6000-8000 miles of riding, vs. $500 for 60,000 miles of utility in a car.

This is what i meant by people grossly over estimating the cost of ownership on motorcycles. i typically buy tires that run for 15,000 miles plus easily (my current set, for example, was worth around 18k), and have never paid more than $250 for a set of tires. I think there's a lack of perspective on the **actual** cost of these things going around.

furthermore, I don't think i've ever seen a set of tires on a car last 60k miles. maybe (big maybe) 40k. so, by the time i've spent the same $500 that you have spent on your tires, i'e been riding for over 30k. it's really not as big of a difference as you're making it out to be.

secondly, you have to consider the amount of time we're talking about here. . The average person puts approx. 35 miles per day on their vehicle. many people put quite a lot less. that means it takes 3 or 4 years before you're seeing a cost benefit between car tires and motorcycle tires. after 8 years the gap widens, but it's been EIGHT YEARS!!! how much money have you saved on insurance by that time? THOUSANDS. car ownership is definitely more expensive. if insurance wasn't mandatory, i'd agree with you, but in todays society, insurance costs being what they are, you just can't say a comparable bike is more expensive to own than a car. there's no getting around that huge chunk of cash.

[GoldOxide_imp]

Possibly one thing we can all agree on: Riding is superb therapy, eh?

[Roper_imp]

And you can use the HOV lane without having to talk to someone
Well, if you do a comparison of cost-per-person transport, a motorcycle is extravagantly expensive compared to an Econoline 15 passenger van. But in the van, you're at a super high risk of dying from boredom.

[Henrik_imp]

This caught my attention in the op-ed:
Quote:The country’s largest trauma centre (at Sunnybrook Health Sciences Centre) found that motorcycle crashes cost the Ontario health care system six times more than car crashes do
I've always thought that's one of the primary dangers of publicly-funded medicine. Once the government is in control of health care expenditures, they can write rules and regulations that the recipients must abide by. It's only a matter of time until motorcycles are deemed a public health hazard like smoking or alcoholism.

Meh. Already got the talk, not from my mom, but from my mother in law. A shut-in who also is upset when I climb a ladder to fix her roof, get under their car to fix it, or get on an airplane to do my job. Because to her, as it is with some people, everything is a threat.

And to her old country way of thinking, the man is the provider in the family and if something bad happened to me, my wife would be penniless. My wife is a doctor, I am a glorified roady and warehouseman.

Basically I don’t ride to her house, and we don’t talk about motorcycles.

My mom? I showed her a picture of my CB when I bought it and she said it looked very neat and pretty. Recently, I took her to lunch, and on the way, I asked if she would mind if I stopped at a motorcycle shop to pick up a part that I had ordered. She wanted to come in with me to browse. She picked up a jacket and felt the armor, and looked at all of the helmets. “You wear all of this safety stuff, right?”

Yes, Mom.

Ok then.

Wow, that's an arresting insight regarding human nature. Some people are risk-averse to the point that it interferes with the enjoyment of all that life has to offer.

I've always thought that's one of the primary dangers of publicly-funded medicine. Once the government is in control of health care expenditures, they can write rules and regulations that the recipients must abide by. It's only a matter of time until motorcycles are deemed a public health hazard like smoking or alcoholism.

Meh. Already got the talk, not from my mom, but from my mother in law. A shut-in who also is upset when I climb a ladder to fix her roof, get under their car to fix it, or get on an airplane to do my job. Because to her, as it is with some people, everything is a threat.

And to her old country way of thinking, the man is the provider in the family and if something bad happened to me, my wife would be penniless. My wife is a doctor, I am a glorified roady and warehouseman.

Basically I don’t ride to her house, and we don’t talk about motorcycles.

My mom? I showed her a picture of my CB when I bought it and she said it looked very neat and pretty. Recently, I took her to lunch, and on the way, I asked if she would mind if I stopped at a motorcycle shop to pick up a part that I had ordered. She wanted to come in with me to browse. She picked up a jacket and felt the armor, and looked at all of the helmets. “You wear all of this safety stuff, right?”

Yes, Mom.

Ok then.

This seems to be a general fear in the US, and perhaps it would come true there should you move to a social healthcare system. Nevertheless, you will find that in Europe where social healthcare is the standard nothing of the sort has ever happened. We can look at Spain as a perfect example where motorcycles are extremely popular as a means of transport. For most of Europe, scooters and motorcycles are far more common as a means of transportation than what it has ever been in the US, in spite of social healthcare.

So, if looking at how things work out elsewhere, it does not seem as if this fear is actually realistic.

Wow, that's an arresting insight regarding human nature. Some people are risk-averse to the point that it interferes with the enjoyment of all that life has to offer.

[misterprofessionality]

This caught my attention in the op-ed:
Quote:The country’s largest trauma centre (at Sunnybrook Health Sciences Centre) found that motorcycle crashes cost the Ontario health care system six times more than car crashes do
I've always thought that's one of the primary dangers of publicly-funded medicine. Once the government is in control of health care expenditures, they can write rules and regulations that the recipients must abide by. It's only a matter of time until motorcycles are deemed a public health hazard like smoking or alcoholism.

Meh. Already got the talk, not from my mom, but from my mother in law. A shut-in who also is upset when I climb a ladder to fix her roof, get under their car to fix it, or get on an airplane to do my job. Because to her, as it is with some people, everything is a threat.

And to her old country way of thinking, the man is the provider in the family and if something bad happened to me, my wife would be penniless. My wife is a doctor, I am a glorified roady and warehouseman.

Basically I don’t ride to her house, and we don’t talk about motorcycles.

My mom? I showed her a picture of my CB when I bought it and she said it looked very neat and pretty. Recently, I took her to lunch, and on the way, I asked if she would mind if I stopped at a motorcycle shop to pick up a part that I had ordered. She wanted to come in with me to browse. She picked up a jacket and felt the armor, and looked at all of the helmets. “You wear all of this safety stuff, right?”

Yes, Mom.

Ok then.

Wow, that's an arresting insight regarding human nature. Some people are risk-averse to the point that it interferes with the enjoyment of all that life has to offer.

I've always thought that's one of the primary dangers of publicly-funded medicine. Once the government is in control of health care expenditures, they can write rules and regulations that the recipients must abide by. It's only a matter of time until motorcycles are deemed a public health hazard like smoking or alcoholism.

Meh. Already got the talk, not from my mom, but from my mother in law. A shut-in who also is upset when I climb a ladder to fix her roof, get under their car to fix it, or get on an airplane to do my job. Because to her, as it is with some people, everything is a threat.

And to her old country way of thinking, the man is the provider in the family and if something bad happened to me, my wife would be penniless. My wife is a doctor, I am a glorified roady and warehouseman.

Basically I don’t ride to her house, and we don’t talk about motorcycles.

My mom? I showed her a picture of my CB when I bought it and she said it looked very neat and pretty. Recently, I took her to lunch, and on the way, I asked if she would mind if I stopped at a motorcycle shop to pick up a part that I had ordered. She wanted to come in with me to browse. She picked up a jacket and felt the armor, and looked at all of the helmets. “You wear all of this safety stuff, right?”

Yes, Mom.

Ok then.

This seems to be a general fear in the US, and perhaps it would come true there should you move to a social healthcare system. Nevertheless, you will find that in Europe where social healthcare is the standard nothing of the sort has ever happened. We can look at Spain as a perfect example where motorcycles are extremely popular as a means of transport. For most of Europe, scooters and motorcycles are far more common as a means of transportation than what it has ever been in the US, in spite of social healthcare.

So, if looking at how things work out elsewhere, it does not seem as if this fear is actually realistic.

Wow, that's an arresting insight regarding human nature. Some people are risk-averse to the point that it interferes with the enjoyment of all that life has to offer.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but you also have helmet laws with much higher standards than ours, much more detailed and extensive mandatory motorcycle operation training, trial periods, tiered licenses, and all that jazz, right?

that's likely why the social healthcare does not interfere with motorcycling, because when you actually operate a motorcycle correctly with the proper training, it isn't nearly as dangerous as it is here in the US.