Would the CB been more of a "success" if there had been more ABS bikes?

[emptysea]

Of course, the fact that Volvo drivers tend to be safer drivers does not mean that Volvos are not safer cars than others. ABS is, factually, a superior braking system to non-ABS and even granting the assumption that safer riders skew the statistics doesn't change that fact.

[Ulvetanna_imp]

After reading the stats that you are 33% less likely to be involved in a fatal accident if your bike has ABS, plus the added dual pipes and bigger tank of the DLX, it was non-negotiable for me.

Hmmmm

Although I'm definitely in favor of ABS, I'm also a little skeptical of stats such as these. I suspect the demographics of those with ABS and those without tend to be different. Those differences can include age, experience, types of bikes, speeds at which they ride, tendency to both afford and wear protective gear, etc. These factors probably skew the fatality stats in favor of ABS riders, regardless of whether the ABS actually engaged.

Hmmmm

Although I'm definitely in favor of ABS, I'm also a little skeptical of stats such as these. I suspect the demographics of those with ABS and those without tend to be different. Those differences can include age, experience, types of bikes, speeds at which they ride, tendency to both afford and wear protective gear, etc. These factors probably skew the fatality stats in favor of ABS riders, regardless of whether the ABS actually engaged. Yes. As the Ferret has reported, he's never had the ABS kick in on him. I'm pretty sure he's a good, experienced rider and knows how to avoid trouble, which has a lot to do with that.

Do safer riders seek out bikes with ABS? ABS can only help a rider avoid trouble under a very narrowly defined set of circumstances:

-Traveling in a straight line
-Sufficient road ahead to recover control after the brakes release

ABS doesn't really work in a turn. Yes, there is cornering ABS; Kawasaki's new ZX-10R has just about the finest example of it, C-ABS. But it doesn't prevent a lateral skid, it modulates front and rear brake pressures and engine torque to help the rider hold his line, based on a lot of programming and real-time math calculations. The tire will still slide laterally if sand or a slipperly liquid is present. If you are in a turn and hammer the brakes, even with C-ABS, if there's a slip hazard, the brakes will release and you will either low-side, or stand the bike up and run off the pavement.

I have had my ABS come on several times unexpectedly whilst braking aggressively into a turn, and it releases the brake(s) and puts you right off your line, causing the bike to run wide.

If you have a bike with ABS, and you have not had it engage (or passed the activation threshold parameters) you really don't know how hard you can stop. That's where learning to ride on a small bike, in the dirt, can teach a rider very valuable lessons.

[the Ferret]

I do think that there are very specific parameters for ABS to be beneficial for the motorcycle rider, mainly a surface with poor purchase, in other words ice, snow, sand, water, dirt, gravel etc and the rider upright and vertical, but I'm not sure how often those conditions come into play for the vast majority of riders. From what I understand, the majority of motorcyclists ride less than a couple thousand miles a year, most won't go out in anything less than ideal conditions, sunny, warm, dry. Most ride conservatively and cautiously. Still I think it's a valuable tool to have in the toolbox and it can't hurt to have it on your bike.

Americans seem to value it less than others in the world, but like I said that is changing and Americans are buying it and demanding it more and more.

[emptysea]

It works. So do traction control systems. Riders, and not just riders who "don't know how to control their bike" or whatever similar BS gets spewed on these pages, will demand both and regulation here and abroad will force both, especially on touring and sport-touring bikes. Still don't think that it would have made a difference in sales of this bike.

[Ulvetanna_imp]

I do think that there are very specific parameters for ABS to be beneficial for the motorcycle rider, mainly a surface with poor purchase, in other words ice, snow, sand, water, dirt, gravel etc and the rider upright and vertical, but I'm not sure how often those conditions come into play for the vast majority of riders. From what I understand, the majority of motorcyclists ride less than a couple thousand miles a year, most won't go out in anything less than ideal conditions, sunny, warm, dry. Most ride conservatively and cautiously. Still I think it's a valuable tool to have in the toolbox and it can't hurt to have it on your bike.

Americans seem to value it less than others in the world, but like I said that is changing and Americans are buying it and demanding it more and more.

It'll be standard equipment on most all bikes in the next five years. It's already on the 300cc entry-level machines, and a good thing, too.

[RockHop_imp]

I do think that there are very specific parameters for ABS to be beneficial for the motorcycle rider, mainly a surface with poor purchase, in other words ice, snow, sand, water, dirt, gravel etc and the rider upright and vertical, but I'm not sure how often those conditions come into play for the vast majority of riders. From what I understand, the majority of motorcyclists ride less than a couple thousand miles a year, most won't go out in anything less than ideal conditions, sunny, warm, dry. Most ride conservatively and cautiously. Still I think it's a valuable tool to have in the toolbox and it can't hurt to have it on your bike.

Americans seem to value it less than others in the world, but like I said that is changing and Americans are buying it and demanding it more and more.

It'll be standard equipment on most all bikes in the next five years. It's already on the 300cc entry-level machines, and a good thing, too.

The CBR250R has had an ABS option since 2011. Incidentally, the Honda dealer I patronize has gone almost exclusively ABS on their street bike inventory. Makes business since to them.

[Ulvetanna_imp]

I do think that there are very specific parameters for ABS to be beneficial for the motorcycle rider, mainly a surface with poor purchase, in other words ice, snow, sand, water, dirt, gravel etc and the rider upright and vertical, but I'm not sure how often those conditions come into play for the vast majority of riders. From what I understand, the majority of motorcyclists ride less than a couple thousand miles a year, most won't go out in anything less than ideal conditions, sunny, warm, dry. Most ride conservatively and cautiously. Still I think it's a valuable tool to have in the toolbox and it can't hurt to have it on your bike.

Americans seem to value it less than others in the world, but like I said that is changing and Americans are buying it and demanding it more and more.

It'll be standard equipment on most all bikes in the next five years. It's already on the 300cc entry-level machines, and a good thing, too.

The CBR250R has had an ABS option since 2011. Incidentally, the Honda dealer I patronize has gone almost exclusively ABS on their street bike inventory. Makes business since to them.

The CBR250R has had an ABS option since 2011. Incidentally, the Honda dealer I patronize has gone almost exclusively ABS on their street bike inventory. Makes business since to them. Good stuff. As long as I can turn it off, I'm good with it. On my F800GS it's off all the time unless I happen to be riding in rain, which never happens but once in a blue moon. But to have it as an option, yeah, I'm good with that.

On a supersport motorcycle the extra plumbing just ruins the feel at the lever so I'd never buy a bike of that kind with the ABS, though. It can all be removed and pitched into a crate but then the ECU has to be reflashed to remove the error codes.

I do think that there are very specific parameters for ABS to be beneficial for the motorcycle rider, mainly a surface with poor purchase, in other words ice, snow, sand, water, dirt, gravel etc and the rider upright and vertical, but I'm not sure how often those conditions come into play for the vast majority of riders. From what I understand, the majority of motorcyclists ride less than a couple thousand miles a year, most won't go out in anything less than ideal conditions, sunny, warm, dry. Most ride conservatively and cautiously. Still I think it's a valuable tool to have in the toolbox and it can't hurt to have it on your bike.

Americans seem to value it less than others in the world, but like I said that is changing and Americans are buying it and demanding it more and more.

How can anyone expect to learn how to ride if that's what they do? No wonder the EU has all those training requirements.

Darwin Holmstrom wrote a book called "[url=https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Idiots-Guide-Motorcycles-Third/dp/1592573037#reader_1592573037]The Complete Idiot's Guide to Motorcycling" and in the first edition he mentioned folks who buy the motorcycle as an ornament of jewelry; he called it something like an "earring" but he meant, of course, that they bought the bike as a fashion accessory.

We just haven't gotten to the point yet, I guess, where the public outcry about errant and unskilled motorcyclists concerns folks that much. When the tipping point is reached, tiered licensing and real training will be here. Right now ABS and traction control is keeping the regulatory wolves at bay but in 10-15 years, with the growth in motorcycling and the increase in accidents, something will come along.

[Rebel73_imp]

After reading the stats that you are 33% less likely to be involved in a fatal accident if your bike has ABS, plus the added dual pipes and bigger tank of the DLX, it was non-negotiable for me.

Hmmmm

Although I'm definitely in favor of ABS, I'm also a little skeptical of stats such as these. I suspect the demographics of those with ABS and those without tend to be different. Those differences can include age, experience, types of bikes, speeds at which they ride, tendency to both afford and wear protective gear, etc. These factors probably skew the fatality stats in favor of ABS riders, regardless of whether the ABS actually engaged.

Hmmmm

Although I'm definitely in favor of ABS, I'm also a little skeptical of stats such as these. I suspect the demographics of those with ABS and those without tend to be different. Those differences can include age, experience, types of bikes, speeds at which they ride, tendency to both afford and wear protective gear, etc. These factors probably skew the fatality stats in favor of ABS riders, regardless of whether the ABS actually engaged. When I think about one of the most common crash scenarios, I it makes sense to me. Very often before an impending crash, the rider will panic and grab the brakes and without the benefit of ABS ends up locking up the rear wheel and "lays her down", in the process asphalt surfing towards the very object they were trying to avoid. ABS would prevent such lock-up, thereby reducing the stopping distance significantly and keeping the rider on his bike. Rubber stops a lot faster than metal, leather, or skin. However, I agree the factors you mentioned must certainly play into the equation.

[DAC]

Had the choice been available for the '14 DLX, I would have gone non-ABS. But I've had it click in three times since I bought the bike 2+ years ago - urban environments each time. Technique was good all three times, progressive squeeze on the lever. Then at almost the very end of the stop and you've got the lever pulled hard, you feel that shudder.

People will do unexpected things no matter how well you plan or how skilled you are. So, count me among the converted. Even if you're very, very good, this technology makes you better.

[The Gecko_imp]

Above an old thread from 2016, and really interesting read - in the light of where we are today.
7-8 years past 2016, the manufacturers have gone all the way through gen1 of cornering ABS, into gen2 - some of the more expensive incarnations with amazing results. One motorcycle journalist - aficionado who I trust above average has described that on a 2023 / latest version of the Yamaha MT-09 (a mid-range not very expensive bike !) the rider can simply forget about gravel, oil and other nasty reductions in grip, and brake as much as he wants in the bends. The bike will decelerate amap, and not steer straight and into oncoming traffic no more.
If anybody here has extended "own" experience with such a system, I'd love to hear about it.