CB1100 Questions from a potential new owner

[E11even_Hunnit]

Came across this- https://www.cycleworld.com/2014/10/28/ri...oundation/

Best of both worlds?

[VLJ_imp]

jimgl3, it doesn't need to be a sportbike to have satisfying grunt out of a corner, or a nice little rip of acceleration on top. I'm not asking for Super Duke R levels of power here. Not at all. Just a modest bump, appropriate to the class. Liter-bike UJMs of yesteryear offered quite a bit more power than the CB1100. I've owned sportbikes, and fast standards, and small-displacement standards. Having been a dealer for over a decade, I've ridden practically everything under the sun, and I recognize an anomaly when I see one.

I'm not trying to turn a CB1100 into a sportbike. Quite the opposite, in fact, which is evident by what I recommended to E11. I just want an 1140cc I4 from the best engine builder in the world to make the same power as nearly every other Japanese I4 of similar displacement, including Honda's very own old school CBs.

It's pretty simple. In Japanese or Euro motorcycling terms, a large motor with four cylinders usually equals X-amount of horsepower and torque, with no lack of torque down low. This particular Honda falls short in both areas, compared to practically everything that came before it. I understand why that one particular bigwig at Honda spec'd it out the way he did, and it is a wonderful motor when ridden within its intended design brief, but its enjoyment envelope could have easily been expanded to cover so much more territory, without sacrificing the original goals.

E11, while that raffle bike in your link is certainly pretty, it really doesn't make much more power than a stock CB1100. All it has is a pipe and remapping, which will bring you up to around 95 rwhp.

[pdedse]

jimgl3, it doesn't need to be a sportbike to have satisfying grunt out of a corner, or a nice little rip of acceleration on top. I'm not asking for Super Duke R levels of power here. Not at all. Just a modest bump, appropriate to the class. Liter-bike UJMs of yesteryear offered quite a bit more power than the CB1100. I've owned sportbikes, and fast standards, and small-displacement standards. Having been a dealer for over a decade, I've ridden practically everything under the sun, and I recognize an anomaly when I see one.

I'm not trying to turn a CB1100 into a sportbike. Quite the opposite, in fact, which is evident by what I recommended to E11. I just want an 1140cc I4 from the best engine builder in the world to make the same power as nearly every other Japanese I4 of similar displacement, including Honda's very own old school CBs.

It's pretty simple. In Japanese or Euro motorcycling terms, a large motor with four cylinders usually equals X-amount of horsepower and torque, with no lack of torque down low. This particular Honda falls short in both areas, compared to practically everything that came before it. I understand why that one particular bigwig at Honda spec'd it out the way he did, and it is a wonderful motor when ridden within its intended design brief, but its enjoyment envelope could have easily been expanded to cover so much more territory, without sacrificing the original goals.

E11, while that raffle bike in your link is certainly pretty, it really doesn't make much more power than a stock CB1100. All it has is a pipe and remapping, which will bring you up to around 95 rwhp.

So what--if it can be explained in fairly basic terms, for I have not a smart mechanical mind--did the "particular bigwig at Honda" do to spec out the CB1100 in such a way that it was underpowered for some?

Anyone care to explain that a bit? What could have been done differently to give the bike the extra Hp that the bike could have attained? What would have been lost? Lower MPG?

Just curious.

[GoldOxide_imp]

I gotta think there were constraints they had to work within dealing with an air-cooled design and meeting Euro 4 (?) emission standards. That, and all the while maintaining torque-on-demand where the rider rides most of the time. Something had to give - and that appears to be over-the-top performance. However, no complaints from me.

[VLJ_imp]

pdedse, he wanted the most relaxing, gentleman's ride possible. Top speeds, or any sort of sporting pretensions were not on his list of priorities. Rather, he wanted a uniquely air-cooled I4 experience that would work perfectly for tooling around Japan's busy streets and scenic roads at an easy, sightseeing pace. He specified a seamless, stress-free, locomotive-like power delivery, with dead nuts perfect throttle response, even at very low speeds. The only concession he made for performance or excitement was he allowed the engine timing to be altered in such a way as to introduce a bit of intentional roughness, to give it character, and a meaner exhaust note.

To give it more power all Honda needs to do is introduce hotter cams, larger throttle bodies, and a more aggressive airbox. It has four cylinders, and 1140 cubic centimeters. 75 ft-lbs of torque and 115 rwhp is not a stretch for such a motor. It would barely need to get out of bed to produce those numbers, and still have gobs of low-down torque.

[pdedse]

I think I had read an article explaining what "he" was going after a number of years back, so thanks for the nice summary:

pdedse, he wanted the most relaxing, gentleman's ride possible. Top speeds, or any sort of sporting pretensions were not on his list of priorities. Rather, he wanted a uniquely air-cooled I4 experience that would work perfectly for tooling around Japan's busy streets and scenic roads at an easy, sightseeing pace. He specified a seamless, stress-free, locomotive-like power delivery, with dead nuts perfect throttle response, even at very low speeds. The only concession he made for performance or excitement was he allowed the engine timing to be altered in such a way as to introduce a bit of intentional roughness, to give it character, and a meaner exhaust note.

To give it more power all Honda needs to do is introduce hotter cams, larger throttle bodies, and a more aggressive airbox. It has four cylinders, and 1140 cubic centimeters. 75 ft-lbs of torque and 115 rwhp is not a stretch for such a motor. It would barely need to get out of bed to produce those numbers, and still have gobs of low-down torque.

pdedse, he wanted the most relaxing, gentleman's ride possible. Top speeds, or any sort of sporting pretensions were not on his list of priorities. Rather, he wanted a uniquely air-cooled I4 experience that would work perfectly for tooling around Japan's busy streets and scenic roads at an easy, sightseeing pace. He specified a seamless, stress-free, locomotive-like power delivery, with dead nuts perfect throttle response, even at very low speeds. The only concession he made for performance or excitement was he allowed the engine timing to be altered in such a way as to introduce a bit of intentional roughness, to give it character, and a meaner exhaust note.

To give it more power all Honda needs to do is introduce hotter cams, larger throttle bodies, and a more aggressive airbox. It has four cylinders, and 1140 cubic centimeters. 75 ft-lbs of torque and 115 rwhp is not a stretch for such a motor. It would barely need to get out of bed to produce those numbers, and still have gobs of low-down torque.

This, above, is what I was after, thanks.

I enjoy learning about the bikes I ride. If you or others don't mind elaborating, I'd love to hear what you have to say about the 3 factors you mention--specifically, why didn't he pursue these:

1. hotter cams: higher price? more frequent valve checks? lower fuel economy?
2. larger throttle bodies: again, price? what else?
3. more aggressive airbox: What does "aggressive" mean related to airbox? Larger air intake? Does this go hand in hand with hotter cams and larger throttle bodies?

I'm not asking the questions because I doubt the factors you mention would have made any difference--just trying to understand how / why some of these decisions were made.

[peterbaron]

Well it looks like E11 joins PB and Redbirds on the dark side. I’ll keep my stupid mod though. You do know these were standard items on the old bikes, right?

The CBs come standard with center stands. Some exhaust mods delete it, but members here have come up with ways to avoid that too. Search is your best friend. There are complete exhaust replacements and are expensive. Nice though.

Two places to start looking are samurider.com and japan.webike.net

lol ... PB - How did you will this to happen?

[url=http://cb1100forum.com/forum/member.php?action=profile&uid=3454]

lol ... PB - How did you will this to happen?
Redbirds, do you have any rubber waste on your OEM levers???

lol ... PB - How did you will this to happen?
Redbirds, do you have any rubber waste on your OEM levers???

PB, Redbirds is the original Dark Sith Lord. He rules the darkside. With you now

He once said go ahead and put RLETs on his bike. He had a big knife and they come off easily...

OMG, this means, I have no clue about Star Wars....last Sunday, my son took me to watch SW, episode IX..boring. No need for me to go again. AMEN with Dec 31st.

[GoldOxide_imp]

PB, Redbirds is the original Dark Sith Lord. He rules the darkside. With you now

He once said go ahead and put RLETs on his bike. He had a big knife and they come off easily...

[E11even_Hunnit]

Going to see the bike later today, can someone determine from the attached image if the bike would be an ABS model or not?

I think I read somewhere that these all have ABS in the rear wheel?

TIA

[Wisedrum]

If ABS, there should be an ABS ring with the drum brake on the other side. Can't see one.

Wisedrum