accidents - an unpleasant subject

[Cormanus]

Excellent advice alprider.

[j3gq_imp]

I would say take all precaution there is to be taken, before ride remind self to be safe, but still, I believe the most dangerous factor being self. Once on the road, when the adrenaline took over, the right hand start to twist unlogically. Soon peg feeler start grinding and tyre side strip start fading. On most of my ride, its safe for the 1st 15 minutes. After that, ain't see any speed limit signboard anymore.

Thank you for this input. Of course this plays a role in many of us, and only age calms it a little (in some cases But here is an interesting point in statistics. Where I live, about 25% of all accidents happen in the first 3 minutes after departure. Interesting, no ?

[Guth_imp]

On motorcycles, I had 2 minor accidents in a row, at about age 20 or 22. Next a very close call. Stopped riding for a while, and started again a few years later. Since then, no more wracks, but of course quite a few close calls. Must be now some 35 years without getting hurt and nothing bent. I wish I could say look at this, but unfortunately I have to admit, I've just been lucky a few times. Now, here is the question I ask myself:

In today's traffic (density), not in Utah! ...
given the velocity of traffic,
with the number of trucks around
(and S.U.V.s the size of trucks),
... can an average biker, age 60 +/-10, defensive driver/rider, following the written rules and common sense ... still avoid getting hurt in 2020/21 ?

More precisely, in case you had an accident lately - in retrospect - what was the main cause and could you have avoided that accident and how (other than by staying at home ?

Just as it has always been, the only way to guarantee that you won't get hurt riding a motorcycle is to avoid riding a motorcycle altogether. I do believe that the risks involved with riding a motorcycle are increasing as time marches on. It should be noted that while the level of risk has increased in part due to the factors that you've mentioned, this is offset some small amount by the fact that motorcycles themselves have improved over the years. Whenever such conversations arise I end up pondering this: at what cost comes a life where risk is minimized as much as possible?

This was a tough week for me as I learned that a friend of mine lost his life just a few days ago. He was young — still in his 40's. Yet he had lived an interesting life, one that he enjoyed. I loved listening to the many tales that he had to tell as a result of the experiences life had provided him with. That life ended with him dying in his sleep.

j3gq, I do hope that you come up with an answer to your question that you can live with. The bottom line is that there are few guarantees in life and life itself is not guaranteed. While life is not a one-size-fits-all endeavor, the end result is always the same. I'm reminded of a song by Kevin Welch that includes the following lyrics:

There's gonna be two dates on your tombstone, all your friends will read 'em
But, all that's gonna matter is that little dash between 'em

I would say take all precaution there is to be taken, before ride remind self to be safe, but still, I believe the most dangerous factor being self. Once on the road, when the adrenaline took over, the right hand start to twist unlogically. Soon peg feeler start grinding and tyre side strip start fading. On most of my ride, its safe for the 1st 15 minutes. After that, ain't see any speed limit signboard anymore.

Thank you for this input. Of course this plays a role in many of us, and only age calms it a little (in some cases But here is an interesting point in statistics. Where I live, about 25% of all accidents happen in the first 3 minutes after departure. Interesting, no ?

That's really interesting. I've read similar statistics but the factor mentioned is always distance rather than time with most accidents occurring within just a few miles of home.

[j3gq_imp]

@Guth
Thanks ! In fact I can live with any answer, as I belong to that older generation that has always tried to balance risks rather than avoid them. And so I keep riding, hiking, flying and all the rest. My question wasn't aimed at finding an excuse for selling my BC, for giving up. I had sth else in mind.

The FAA, or rather the NTSB, has had a program for decades where accident scenarios and conditions are published to other pilots to learn. And AOPA has a column called "never again", where pilots look back at what went wrong and why. The earlier is unthinkable for motorcycle, the later could start right here cause we can all learn from the lucky days of others when they "got away". My hope was my OP could make people think about these situations and communicate their unique inside after all the pain and hardship is gone.

[zirconxi_imp]

I would say take all precaution there is to be taken, before ride remind self to be safe, but still, I believe the most dangerous factor being self. Once on the road, when the adrenaline took over, the right hand start to twist unlogically. Soon peg feeler start grinding and tyre side strip start fading. On most of my ride, its safe for the 1st 15 minutes. After that, ain't see any speed limit signboard anymore.

Thank you for this input. Of course this plays a role in many of us, and only age calms it a little (in some cases But here is an interesting point in statistics. Where I live, about 25% of all accidents happen in the first 3 minutes after departure. Interesting, no ?

Interesting point on this statistic.. Possibly 25% accident from the 1st 3 minutes is either where most riders beginning to adjust into riding mode, or rider riding out of populated housing area where traffics are more chaotic. The balance 75% possibly is where adrenaline start to kick in and high speed are involved. But just my assumptions.
As age catching up, so are the rider fatigue, both mentally and physically. But there are another saying on old riders, once you start reduce riding, your reflexes and mental sharpness deteriorate faster, thus higher chance of accident. But then the more you ride, the higher chances of getting into accident due statistically.. kind of a paradox, ride more = sharper fitter and less chance into accident, but stay on road more = more chance of accident.

[PhangNga_imp]

For me I have been riding for about 15 years. And I have a major accident once and broke my right collarbone into 3 parts. I have to say I'm quite defensive in riding especially in Bangkok's street. You can not trust that everyone on the road will respect and obey rules(if we have any). Until one day in the morning when I was riding to work and splitting lanes in heavy traffics in Bangkok rush hour and doing about 40-50km/hr. One scooter decided to cut the 5 lanes road from the most right to the most left "in front of a van." My luck was running out that day, It's impossible for me to see him because the van is blocking my vision. I crashed into him. Luckily enough not to be ran over by traffics because it was a green light. He was mad at me and accused my for being reckless. I didn't reply and let's the insurance handle everything else.

This experience teaches me that no matter how much I careful, there will be one day I will cross paths with... bad luck?

I attached a picture so you get the idea of splitting lanes here is what like. I talking about splitting a 5kms of bumper to bumper traffic. Sometimes i think it's like playing a Russian Roulette every day.

Ride safe.

[max]

Nice to hear about you guys in this heavy chaotic ( to me ) traffic and surviving, started riding in Amsterdam without any issues but used to the riding situation there.
Watched some video's on driving in India and i don't even understand how they survive but they do so there is still a chance for us .
Here in Auckland there are several different area's that require an adaptive approach, some drive naturally slow but with clear direction, in another part with a different population ( in my area ) drivers are completely unpredictable with no regard for motorcycles, they think we are mopeds and try to push in on me as where in the rest of the city things are quite predictable.
Also use the mirrors constantly, when i need to alter course i practice " situational awareness" knowing what's behind me at what speed on all lanes so i have a clear area in which to move, if it's not safe i take the next safe opportunity.

When crossing or turning into a road i expect there to be traffic that comes toward me and when the road is clear that's a bonus, but i don't rely on the road to be clear, i have to prove that to myself.

First thing i do after touching the brakes is look in the mirrors to make sure behind me are slowing down as well and if need be keep going in the right gear, a traffic fine is a better option than a hospital stay etc.

So i guess it's a case of adaptation to the perceived situation based upon experience, and yes, i also notice i get slower so i have to pay more attention instead.

Also have never mixed alcohol when riding on the bike period, but in early days i had a heightened sense of awareness when driving with a very moderate amount of alcohol in the car and never had a problem because of that.

It may seem a bit much and overdone but i find i got used to being cautious and it's second nature after a while.

Nice talking point with interesting idea's.

[j3gq_imp]

I would say take all precaution there is to be taken, before ride remind self to be safe, but still, I believe the most dangerous factor being self. Once on the road, when the adrenaline took over, the right hand start to twist unlogically. Soon peg feeler start grinding and tyre side strip start fading. On most of my ride, its safe for the 1st 15 minutes. After that, ain't see any speed limit signboard anymore.

Thank you for this input. Of course this plays a role in many of us, and only age calms it a little (in some cases But here is an interesting point in statistics. Where I live, about 25% of all accidents happen in the first 3 minutes after departure. Interesting, no ?

Interesting point on this statistic.. Possibly 25% accident from the 1st 3 minutes is either where most riders beginning to adjust into riding mode, or rider riding out of populated housing area where traffics are more chaotic. The balance 75% possibly is where adrenaline start to kick in and high speed are involved. But just my assumptions.
As age catching up, so are the rider fatigue, both mentally and physically. But there are another saying on old riders, once you start reduce riding, your reflexes and mental sharpness deteriorate faster, thus higher chance of accident. But then the more you ride, the higher chances of getting into accident due statistically.. kind of a paradox, ride more = sharper fitter and less chance into accident, but stay on road more = more chance of accident.

... But there are another saying on old riders, once you start reduce riding, your reflexes and mental sharpness deteriorate faster, thus higher chance of accident. ...
This is definitely correct. There is a growing body of evidence that to keep fit at advanced age (over 30 or so) your brain needs most what it was built for, being hauled around in three dimensions with sensors (eyes, earsproviding max input at max data-rate. Hikers report the same effect. Geriatrists confirm. But there is no paradox. If you hike and don't ride, your brain stays as healthy. Yet it stays healthy with different capacity. Only hiking from 60 on, and getting back on the blade at age 75 won't do the trick

[Houtman_imp]

The reason that most accidents are close to home is very simple : never mind how long or far you ride : there are ALWAYS the first miles/ten minutes when you leave home.

[GoldOxide_imp]

If I had to split urban Bangkok cages everyday, I think I'd be riding a scooter too (sans the mirrors).