Kawasaki Z900RS

[Bheezy27403_imp]

That's funny Ferret. Here in NC I see many air cooled and water cooled Triumphs. I have only ever seen 1 CB. It was a 13 just like mine. So my perception is contrary to yours.

[VLJ_imp]

mickey, unless the guy you met on tbe Z900 was willing to buy a new bike from a Canadian dealer, he would have had an extremely long wait had he waited for the RS. As in, possibly forever. Is he aware that Honda isn't bringing any CB1100s to the U.S. in 2018?

There is little reason now to believe they will bring any here in 2019, either.

Ulvetanna, on what are you basing your guess that Honda will soon introduce an all-new CB900 and bring it here?

If American Honda has shown anything regarding the CB retro model line, it would be a distinct lack of interest or confidence in the project. The '13 and '14 models bore no resemblance to the original artist's sketch, and Honda made very little effort to promote the bike here before cancelling it altogether after only two years. Now, three years later, they've cancelled the new one again after only a single model year.

Meanwhile, they're set to introduce a much more appealing replacement for another bike that was also DOA here from the beginning, the CB1000R.

So, now they're going to come out with a smaller displacement version of a bike they already treat like a redheaded stepchild? And they're finally going to make it look like/have the specs of the original sketch?

Performance-wise, such a bike will still get its doors blown off by the lighter, more powerful, air-cooled competition from BMW, and also by the pseudo-retro Z900RS. And for all that, a CB900 would cost just as much as the CB1100, so where does American Honda find anything new there on which to hang their hat?

The funny thing is that I'm pecking out this post on my phone as I sit here at a breakfast stop in Winters, staring out the window at my shining red '17 EX. It was only 28 degrees when I set out this morning on another trip to Mendocino via Skaggs Canyon Rd and Hwy 1 up the coast. I'm freezing my butt off, trying to warm up with some hot chocolate, and for all the talk of a CB900 and the CB1100 RS I couldn't be happier with my pretty red EX.

Well, except for the tiny bit of brake squealing, which remains her only flaw to date. I'm really looking forward to seeing that one niggling issue go away.

[the Ferret]

VLJ NOT a CB1100RS... a Z900RS!

That sketch was made in 1999 that Ulve posted and the prototype was shown in Tokyo that year. They are NOT building that I can guarantee you.

You can read about that in our history section although the pics are gone

http://www.cb1100forum.com/forum/showthr...p?tid=4403

[Acrobat_imp]

Honda always want to play by her rules. You can see that in every field it competes, MotoGP, etc.. last year KTM boss said his brand most hatred competitor is Honda. Look what happened in Moto 3 , I think only one win for KTM ?

Europe is full of Bonevilles and RnineTs, Honda don't care about Kawasaki either. Honda says : My rules , modern classic and neo cafe.

About markets you all are right, the buttered side of the bread is Asia, and there Honda thrives.. and there the biggest enemies are KTM and BMW..

As for squealing brakes VLJ, in a previous post I told you the remedy..

[Ulvetanna_imp]

mickey, unless the guy you met on tbe Z900 was willing to buy a new bike from a Canadian dealer, he would have had an extremely long wait had he waited for the RS. As in, possibly forever. Is he aware that Honda isn't bringing any CB1100s to the U.S. in 2018?

There is little reason now to believe they will bring any here in 2019, either.

Ulvetanna, on what are you basing your guess that Honda will soon introduce an all-new CB900 and bring it here?

If American Honda has shown anything regarding the CB retro model line, it would be a distinct lack of interest or confidence in the project. The '13 and '14 models bore no resemblance to the original artist's sketch, and Honda made very little effort to promote the bike here before cancelling it altogether after only two years. Now, three years later, they've cancelled the new one again after only a single model year.

Meanwhile, they're set to introduce a much more appealing replacement for another bike that was also DOA here from the beginning, the CB1000R.

So, now they're going to come out with a smaller displacement version of a bike they already treat like a redheaded stepchild? And they're finally going to make it look like/have the specs of the original sketch?

Performance-wise, such a bike will still get its doors blown off by the lighter, more powerful, air-cooled competition from BMW, and also by the pseudo-retro Z900RS. And for all that, a CB900 would cost just as much as the CB1100, so where does American Honda find anything new there on which to hang their hat?

The funny thing is that I'm pecking out this post on my phone as I sit here at a breakfast stop in Winters, staring out the window at my shining red '17 EX. It was only 28 degrees when I set out this morning on another trip to Mendocino via Skaggs Canyon Rd and Hwy 1 up the coast. I'm freezing my butt off, trying to warm up with some hot chocolate, and for all the talk of a CB900 and the CB1100 RS I couldn't be happier with my pretty red EX.

Well, except for the tiny bit of brake squealing, which remains her only flaw to date. I'm really looking forward to seeing that one niggling issue go away.

-There is no news of any CB1100 of any type coming to the USA, despite a good market for "retro-style" bikes and an economy on the upswing.

-The fact that the current CB1100, despite its wonderful physical charm and eminent rideability, is a good deal heavier and much less powerful than its competition, and substantially less sporty.

-The fact that retro-style is here to stay and is now a significant part of the market which Honda is not likely to ignore.

-Honda's view of itself as always in the leadership position, with a flagship model in every genre of vehicle it produces.

That adds up to Honda deciding to allow the current supply to dry up altogether before introducing a new retro model, rather than have even more unsold CB1100s in the warehouses and on showroom floors. This would eliminate Honda competing with a non-current product for sales of this new machine I'm predicting. It's going to be so attractive, with such excellent features and qualities, it will sell itself. A similar bike would draw attention away from it.

Also, unsold CB1100s on the dealer's floor might cause a potential buyer of this "CB900F" to wonder what was wrong with the CB1100 that it didnd't sell (nothing, of course, but that's how people are).

The person attracted to this new CB900F is going to be someone who was not interested in the CB1100 to begin with. We baby boomers are growing older and are not a very important part of the buying bloc moving forward.

Millenials are, and they are going to reap the benefit over the next decade of the introduction and refinement of this new air-cooled 900 retro-sport machine. Honda has to look ahead. Lighter, stronger, faster, more sophisticated, but with that Honda look and feel. That's what's coming.

This line of thinking was applied to the CBR1000RR, a bike that seemed soldier on with nothing more than bold new graphics for years. At long last Honda finally came out with a new CB1000RR which by all accounts is a very, very good bike, with a full complement of electronic rider aids and high level of adaptability to road racing.

The current CB1100 will probably not seem like the best choice to the future buyer Honda intends to attract; that buyer wants lighter weight, more truly sporting handling, and more power, or at least a more favorable power/weight ratio.

That rider is also going to want electronic rider assistance, such as traction control and perhaps a rain mode, along with top-notch ABS. Research shows this is the case; newer riders and buyers want that stuff on any bike.

This new CB900F I have envisaged will be a very effective direct competitor to the Z900RS and Z900RS Cafe (which I expect will be available in 2019 over here), as well as the RNineT, Thruxton, and other various retro-styled bikes.

The CB1100 was not effective in pulling sales away from those manufacturers as we've seen.

So this putative CB900F will have the absolute, authentic look and style that Honda cherishes as its heritage, with agility, handling, and performance to match.

I would predict a wet weight of just about 500 lbs, wheelbase about 56", rake 25 degrees, and trail of about 110mm. 17" wheels front and rear, but possibly a 120/70 front with a 160/10 rear for lighter handling. Cast wheels, probably similar to Comstar design. High quality suspension, twin clocks, 4-4.5 gallon tank, steel frame but aluminum swingarm.

Essentially, a CB1100RS minus 200cc's, 60 lbs, and everything slightly downsized, but with a redline in the neighborhood of 10,500 RPM. Very good low end but a nice hit on top instead of flattening out. Not so much an "old man's" bike so to speak, but easy to ride with a thrill on top if one wants to ride it like that.

All the information on Honda's website, especially the feature on designing an air-cooled mill for the 21st century, point to the eventual production of this motorcycle. So we will see.

VLJ NOT a CB1100RS... a Z900RS!

That sketch was made in 1999 that Ulve posted and the prototype was shown in Tokyo that year. They are NOT building that I can guarantee you.

You can read about that in our history section although the pics are gone

http://www.cb1100forum.com/forum/showthr...p?tid=4403

Jeez, I feel just slightly misunderestimated. I bought my 2013 Standard in mid-2013! Had it for 3 1/2 years before selling; I've been over the history of the bike pretty carefully.

As far as predictions go, really, in the end, I concur that your guess is as good as mine. Then again, the bike I predict will NOT look like that picture; it'll be an "F" version if it's ever built.

So we will see.

Honda always want to play by her rules. You can see that in every field it competes, MotoGP, etc.. last year KTM boss said his brand most hatred competitor is Honda. Look what happened in Moto 3 , I think only one win for KTM ?

Europe is full of Bonevilles and RnineTs, Honda don't care about Kawasaki either. Honda says : My rules , modern classic and neo cafe.

About markets you all are right, the buttered side of the bread is Asia, and there Honda thrives.. and there the biggest enemies are KTM and BMW..

As for squealing brakes VLJ, in a previous post I told you the remedy..

Yes, Honda like to WIN, and win big.

Which brings me to another example of Honda's big innovative powers.

The first CBR900RR. No one could believe that bike would be so light with such big power, but it was. Most people didn't believe it even really existed until it exploded on the scene.



It was a sketchy machine in a lot of ways, and I took a pass on it, with that 16" front wheel, but Erion Racing won AMA Formula Extreme on a massively modified version, and it sort of ruled the roost for quite a while.

111 brake horsepower, 453 lbs wet, it was lighter than a 600 at the time.

Another example of Honda just deciding to kick everyone's derriere is the CBR1100XX Blackbird, for a while, the world's fastest production bike.



Honda doesn't rest on its laurels, it chews them up and uses them for compost to grow newer, better ones.

[Mscb1100_imp]

Ulve,

I find a lot of flaws in your logic based upon my experience in banking, finance and retail in regards to this new 900 you presume Honda is/will one day bring to market when all the CB1100’s are sold.
The money Honda spent developing and manufacturing those bikes has been spent and accounted for.
It is illogical that Honda is forgoing the sales/profits (expected over the next decade by millennials, your words) to languish while the current models wait to be sold, while a bike “bike that will sell itself “ sits on the drawing board.
Each day a current CB1100 remains unsold, Honda is losing interest on the manufacturing cost of a bike sitting in a warehouse. It would be much better financial sense to sell those bikes, and use that money to help fund production and advertising cost of a “bike that will sell itself”.
For example, show up at any car or cycle dealer after lunch time on the last business day of the month and you can negotiate a better deal, because another month of floor plan charges start the next day and the dealer wants as many sales for the current month as possible.

Smarter people than both of us have kept Honda in business for a looong time!

[Ulvetanna_imp]

On today's ride I met a guy named Rocky. He was riding a Z900. About my age. Bought it last year. Likes it well enough, but said he wished he had waited a year and got the RS. He really liked the CB but not the 17 model. CB drew a big crowd of admirers at the rest stop today. One guy was snapping cell phone pics and another had to tell me about his CB 350F he used to have. lol

I was also confused by this post.

You said Rocky was on a Z900, that would be like my supernaked Z900. Then you said he wished he'd waited to get the RS.

I thought you meant he wished he'd waited to get the Z900RS instead of the Z900.

Can you clear this up? Did he mean he wished he'd purchased a CB1100RS instead of the Z900 Supernaked, or that he wished he'd waited to buy a Z900RS? That was my impression, that he wished he'd gotten the retro instead of the supernaked.

[Mscb1100_imp]

Ulve
Wow
Last 2 lines of your last post summarized my entire post

[flynrider]

mickey, unless the guy you met on tbe Z900 was willing to buy a new bike from a Canadian dealer, he would have had an extremely long wait had he waited for the RS. As in, possibly forever. Is he aware that Honda isn't bringing any CB1100s to the U.S. in 2018?

There is little reason now to believe they will bring any here in 2019, either.

Ulvetanna, on what are you basing your guess that Honda will soon introduce an all-new CB900 and bring it here?

If American Honda has shown anything regarding the CB retro model line, it would be a distinct lack of interest or confidence in the project. The '13 and '14 models bore no resemblance to the original artist's sketch, and Honda made very little effort to promote the bike here before cancelling it altogether after only two years. Now, three years later, they've cancelled the new one again after only a single model year.

Meanwhile, they're set to introduce a much more appealing replacement for another bike that was also DOA here from the beginning, the CB1000R.

So, now they're going to come out with a smaller displacement version of a bike they already treat like a redheaded stepchild? And they're finally going to make it look like/have the specs of the original sketch?

Performance-wise, such a bike will still get its doors blown off by the lighter, more powerful, air-cooled competition from BMW, and also by the pseudo-retro Z900RS. And for all that, a CB900 would cost just as much as the CB1100, so where does American Honda find anything new there on which to hang their hat?

The funny thing is that I'm pecking out this post on my phone as I sit here at a breakfast stop in Winters, staring out the window at my shining red '17 EX. It was only 28 degrees when I set out this morning on another trip to Mendocino via Skaggs Canyon Rd and Hwy 1 up the coast. I'm freezing my butt off, trying to warm up with some hot chocolate, and for all the talk of a CB900 and the CB1100 RS I couldn't be happier with my pretty red EX.

Well, except for the tiny bit of brake squealing, which remains her only flaw to date. I'm really looking forward to seeing that one niggling issue go away.

-There is no news of any CB1100 of any type coming to the USA, despite a good market for "retro-style" bikes and an economy on the upswing.

-The fact that the current CB1100, despite its wonderful physical charm and eminent rideability, is a good deal heavier and much less powerful than its competition, and substantially less sporty.

-The fact that retro-style is here to stay and is now a significant part of the market which Honda is not likely to ignore.

-Honda's view of itself as always in the leadership position, with a flagship model in every genre of vehicle it produces.

That adds up to Honda deciding to allow the current supply to dry up altogether before introducing a new retro model, rather than have even more unsold CB1100s in the warehouses and on showroom floors. This would eliminate Honda competing with a non-current product for sales of this new machine I'm predicting. It's going to be so attractive, with such excellent features and qualities, it will sell itself. A similar bike would draw attention away from it.

Also, unsold CB1100s on the dealer's floor might cause a potential buyer of this "CB900F" to wonder what was wrong with the CB1100 that it didnd't sell (nothing, of course, but that's how people are).

The person attracted to this new CB900F is going to be someone who was not interested in the CB1100 to begin with. We baby boomers are growing older and are not a very important part of the buying bloc moving forward.

Millenials are, and they are going to reap the benefit over the next decade of the introduction and refinement of this new air-cooled 900 retro-sport machine. Honda has to look ahead. Lighter, stronger, faster, more sophisticated, but with that Honda look and feel. That's what's coming.

This line of thinking was applied to the CBR1000RR, a bike that seemed soldier on with nothing more than bold new graphics for years. At long last Honda finally came out with a new CB1000RR which by all accounts is a very, very good bike, with a full complement of electronic rider aids and high level of adaptability to road racing.

The current CB1100 will probably not seem like the best choice to the future buyer Honda intends to attract; that buyer wants lighter weight, more truly sporting handling, and more power, or at least a more favorable power/weight ratio.

That rider is also going to want electronic rider assistance, such as traction control and perhaps a rain mode, along with top-notch ABS. Research shows this is the case; newer riders and buyers want that stuff on any bike.

This new CB900F I have envisaged will be a very effective direct competitor to the Z900RS and Z900RS Cafe (which I expect will be available in 2019 over here), as well as the RNineT, Thruxton, and other various retro-styled bikes.

The CB1100 was not effective in pulling sales away from those manufacturers as we've seen.

So this putative CB900F will have the absolute, authentic look and style that Honda cherishes as its heritage, with agility, handling, and performance to match.

I would predict a wet weight of just about 500 lbs, wheelbase about 56", rake 25 degrees, and trail of about 110mm. 17" wheels front and rear, but possibly a 120/70 front with a 160/10 rear for lighter handling. Cast wheels, probably similar to Comstar design. High quality suspension, twin clocks, 4-4.5 gallon tank, steel frame but aluminum swingarm.

Essentially, a CB1100RS minus 200cc's, 60 lbs, and everything slightly downsized, but with a redline in the neighborhood of 10,500 RPM. Very good low end but a nice hit on top instead of flattening out. Not so much an "old man's" bike so to speak, but easy to ride with a thrill on top if one wants to ride it like that.

All the information on Honda's website, especially the feature on designing an air-cooled mill for the 21st century, point to the eventual production of this motorcycle. So we will see.

VLJ NOT a CB1100RS... a Z900RS!

That sketch was made in 1999 that Ulve posted and the prototype was shown in Tokyo that year. They are NOT building that I can guarantee you.

You can read about that in our history section although the pics are gone

http://www.cb1100forum.com/forum/showthr...p?tid=4403

Jeez, I feel just slightly misunderestimated. I bought my 2013 Standard in mid-2013! Had it for 3 1/2 years before selling; I've been over the history of the bike pretty carefully.

As far as predictions go, really, in the end, I concur that your guess is as good as mine. Then again, the bike I predict will NOT look like that picture; it'll be an "F" version if it's ever built.

So we will see.

Honda always want to play by her rules. You can see that in every field it competes, MotoGP, etc.. last year KTM boss said his brand most hatred competitor is Honda. Look what happened in Moto 3 , I think only one win for KTM ?

Europe is full of Bonevilles and RnineTs, Honda don't care about Kawasaki either. Honda says : My rules , modern classic and neo cafe.

About markets you all are right, the buttered side of the bread is Asia, and there Honda thrives.. and there the biggest enemies are KTM and BMW..

As for squealing brakes VLJ, in a previous post I told you the remedy..

Yes, Honda like to WIN, and win big.

Which brings me to another example of Honda's big innovative powers.

The first CBR900RR. No one could believe that bike would be so light with such big power, but it was. Most people didn't believe it even really existed until it exploded on the scene.



It was a sketchy machine in a lot of ways, and I took a pass on it, with that 16" front wheel, but Erion Racing won AMA Formula Extreme on a massively modified version, and it sort of ruled the roost for quite a while.

111 brake horsepower, 453 lbs wet, it was lighter than a 600 at the time.

Another example of Honda just deciding to kick everyone's derriere is the CBR1100XX Blackbird, for a while, the world's fastest production bike.



Honda doesn't rest on its laurels, it chews them up and uses them for compost to grow newer, better ones.

I hope that you're right about this, but I have my doubts.

With Euro 5 regs looming in 2020, it seems unlikely that Honda is going to invest the R&D yen into an air cooled powerplant that will be even more marginalized than the CB1100.

I suspect that if Honda is going to have an entry in the retro-standard class in '20 and beyond, it'll be water cooled. I'd expect something like the T120 or Z900RS, but with somewhat more attention to retro details in true Honda fashion.

[the Ferret]

On today's ride I met a guy named Rocky. He was riding a Z900. About my age. Bought it last year. Likes it well enough, but said he wished he had waited a year and got the RS. He really liked the CB but not the 17 model. CB drew a big crowd of admirers at the rest stop today. One guy was snapping cell phone pics and another had to tell me about his CB 350F he used to have. lol

VLJ NOT a CB1100RS... a Z900RS!

That sketch was made in 1999 that Ulve posted and the prototype was shown in Tokyo that year. They are NOT building that I can guarantee you.

You can read about that in our history section although the pics are gone

http://www.cb1100forum.com/forum/showthr...p?tid=4403

Think it's pretty clear, but I will reiterate

His name was Rocky..last year he bought a Z900 (naked Kawasaki 900 4 cyl). He likes it well enough. But now that Kawasaki has introduced the Z900RS (retro styled Kawasaki 900 4 cyl), he wished he had waited a year and bought it instead.

further ....

He liked my CB1100 (retro Honda 1100 4 cyl), but did not like the 2017 version of the CB 1100 (slightly less retro Honda 1100 4 cyl). There was no mention of the not available in the U.S. CB1100RS (decidedly less retro Honda 1100 4 cyl) by either of us.