Kawasaki Z900RS

[Ulvetanna_imp]

The tank on the Z900 is very wide at the front, with respect to the two "ears" which are nicely concealed by the scoops blending it with the larger radiator, which was needed to handle the much higher HP of the Z900s engine.

The extra capacity is done the same way KHI did it with the KLR650. Z900 is much wider at the front but had none of the styling concerns of the Z900RS.

It is what it is, the tank shape is probably not going to factor into the sales of the Z900RS in any meaningful way.

That bike, in fact, reminds me very much of the design of the A6M Zero, a very sleek, svelte single-engine aircraft. It made excellent use of the "French Curve" which is exactly what I am seeing on the Z900RS's tank.

It's very obvious how intensively Triumph and Honda sweated the details with their retros, vs Kawi's passing nod to those same details. In the case of Triumph, their cooling fins are real fins—their functionality or lack thereof can be debated, but there is no debating that they are, in fact, actual fins—not merely tacked-on cosmetic protrusions, as they are on the Z900RS. There are no cables sloppily draped across the side of the motor on the Modern Classics, while the clutch cable just hangs right out there on the Kawi. They didn't even rout it out of sight, as Yamaha did with the clutch cable on my XSR. The Thruxton's remarkably skinny tank is as slender as the old ones were, while the Kawi's is a shapeless fat blob that splays the rider's knees out. Triumph did everything possible to hide the radiator, to such a degree that it's basically invisible from the side view. It's certainly not in the rider's line of sight from the saddle. The Kawi's radiator is an inelegant eyesore, made worse from the rider's point of view by the stark prominence of the radiator cap.

Bottom line, the Z900RS is Kawi's answer to the XSR. It's a thoroughly modern motorcycle based on an already-existent naked sportbike, with a few stylistic nods to the past. It's not a retro bike, at all. In that sense, it doesn't hold a candle to any version of the CB1100, either in retro-authenticity or, especially, attention to detail.

As for the tank on either version of the '17 CB1100, while it may not resemble the shape of the previous models, it is in no way fat, bulbous, or unattractive. Despite having the same capacity as the Kawi tank, it's so much more slender between the knees, and everywhere else. It's also artisan-level beautiful, with its smooth, seamless contours and ultra-rich, lustrous paintwork.

And, unfortunately, the veracity in that statement is exactly why I sold my 2013. It just didn't deliver the performance and handling I'd hoped for. By all accounts, the 2017 does just that.

KHI, I believe quite wisely, elected to build a bike that looks retro, to appeal to those grumpy old guys trying to recapture their lost youth, or to those noisome Millennials (who have no idea how things work but certainly know what looks cool).

But the Kawasaki is going to run like stink, they can ask about the same price for it, and not have a metric shipload of them unsold years later. The extra HP, lighter weight, and basically more impressive "spec sheet" once again is going to sell bikes.

I'm loving the 2017 EX and for my purposes would not purchase a Z900RS but many lovers of all things retro, who also ride, will gather themselves to the Z900RS enthusiastically. And have no regrets.

KHI will likely release the RS Cafe in the future; that's a bike that I really do love as far as the looks go.

[nhawk7504_imp]

nhawk7504, the Z900 has a shorter wheelbase than the Z900RS, and the tank capacities are identical, yet the Z900's tank is significantly sleeker and slimmer. The Ninja 1000's wheelbase is shorter than the Z900RS's and its tank is a half-gallon larger, and still its tank is more slender than the RS's.

The wheelbase is not the reason for the fat, bulbous tank on the Z900RS. Kawi simply did a poor job with its design. They made no effort to give it any contouring.

As for dual shocks not working well, particularly for a 160 lb rider, go take a spin on a '17 CB1100. Specifically, a '17 model, not the previous-year models. City streets, highways, smooth sweepers or gnarled canyon twisties, ride them all on the new CB1100. I think you'll discover that dual shocks properly designed can work very well. I can tell you that the suspension on my '17 CB works better than the vast majority of single-shock designs from every other bike I've owned.

Sounds good VLJ. The one dealer that allows test rides sold theirs sight unseen. Yeah I think they could have added some indents into the back of the tank. It has to go up higher then. That's nice that they updated the shocks. I didn't feel the road on the XR12. Ditto the new DUC SS.

[VLJ_imp]

The Cafe version of the Z900RS reminds me of those animated cars and motorcycles from the Chevron commercials...

[Guth_imp]

Guys, keep in mind that I'm primarily talking about the subjective topic of styling here and in the spirit of the forum I'm trying to be as polite as I can be right now with some of my opinions. Opinions is all that they are, nothing more. I can appreciate a bike at many different levels without agreeing about everything regarding the looks. I find the Z900 RS to be a very fascinating motorcycle and I'm really happy to see Kawasaki go for it with this bike. But if I were to walk into a Kawasaki dealer to find a new Z900 RS sitting on the floor next to a super clean W650 that someone had just traded in on one, I personally would be far more tempted by the W than the RS.

You'll notice that I'll say very little about the XSR. I just bite my tongue when it comes to that bike, lol. People can go on all they want about performance advantages of this or that and I'll give them that. I get it. When it comes to my own needs those things just really aren't that interesting to me. I've posted my videos, you can see how I ride, I just don't need any more performance than that which my CB already offers. As a general rule for me those performance gains tend to come with a clear visual cost to my eye when it comes to retro or retro-styled bikes. At some point in the crossover between vintage looks and performance, motorcycles just lose my eye's interest. Once a certain point is crossed I find myself much more interested in bikes like the Z650/Z900, the Street Triple, the SV650 or the CB1000R. (Yamaha is such a design/styling disaster "in my opinion" that they don't currently have a single bike that appeals to me.)

For me, there's nothing beautiful about the new CB tank shape and I'm not nearly as big a fan of metallic paint jobs as I am of pearl paint jobs. I do feel that the new shape works better on the CB1100 RS than the EX as the more modern shape works better with, and mimics spirit of the wider & shorter 17" wheels/tires. I'm glad that the Honda logotype is an emblem as opposed to a decal, but I much prefer the winged badge. Had Honda visually referenced some their older tank designs in some way (other than just the metallic paint) then the new CB1100s would hold much greater appeal to me. But regardless of what is a hit or miss with me personally, it's still very obvious to me that the CB1100 remains a project of pride driven by Honda's passions for engineering, quality and heritage. I'll just leave it at that. We all like what we like. I'd much rather someone disagree with me about this stuff and be happier with their own bike than to agree and be disappointed with what they own, lol.

[the Ferret]

Funny Guth, I was at our local Honda Yamaha dealer today. The owner is a good friend of mine. Known him since he was 14. I was asking about new Hondas. He said you wouldn't buy a Yamaha would you? I said "Sure I would..didn't I buy an FZ-1 from you? Didn't I buy a Majesty 400 from you? It's just that Yamaha doesn't design any bikes that appeal to me right now. Maybe if the FZ-09 was shaft drive I could forget it's looks and buy one, but honestly Yamaha motorcycles are rather bizarre looking styling wise. I just can't get past that." Then again not much meets my styling criteria from any manufacturer these days..Honda included.

[VLJ_imp]

Guth, I agree regarding the different tank logos, but I think Honda chose wisely for each tank. The winged logo is perfect on the boxier tank. The script logo wouldn't work as well there, but it works perfectly on the curvier '17 tank.

As for the XSR, I don't love its looks, but I prefer them to the Z900RS's, which I mostly find to be unappealing. The only real negative is the two boxes at the top of the frame.

[the Ferret]

I have issues with several design elements of the XSR 900 besides those boxes. The silver bridge structure supports under the seat with the holes, the same for the headlight ears. The oddly shaped healight bucket and 1940s Ford tailight, the strangely thick front fender supports highlighted in silver, and the way the gas tank seemes to just be perched on top of the frame rather than moulded around it. I also find Yamaha gauges, switches and mirrors funky.

I still think the XSR is the best running of the Yamaha triples and I have ridden all 3.

[Ulvetanna_imp]

The XSR900 is a motorcycle styled and built on the FZ09 frame, which is a minimalist, modern, cost-effective design based on a two-piece, bolt-together main frame. That bike was never intended to be anything like a retro-styled motorcycle.

The XSR is Yamaha's take on restyling it with respect to certain bits to give it that retro look from a distance. You get up close, you see its roots, a modern bike.

The Z900RS was planned from the beginning to have more of the traditional features, the main item being the tubular steel frame. From the start it gets a little closer to being "retro" but as far as the actual construction goes, it's purely modern.

The KHI supercharged H2R and H2 both have a similar steel tubular frame design. Steel's a great material for motorcycle frames. A bit heavier, but "oh, what a feeling" if done right. The 2017 CB1100, by all accounts, has also been done right.

Funny Guth, I was at our local Honda Yamaha dealer today. The owner is a good friend of mine. Known him since he was 14. I was asking about new Hondas. He said you wouldn't buy a Yamaha would you? I said "Sure I would..didn't I buy an FZ-1 from you? Didn't I buy a Majesty 400 from you? It's just that Yamaha doesn't design any bikes that appeal to me right now. Maybe if the FZ-09 was shaft drive I could forget it's looks and buy one, but honestly Yamaha motorcycles are rather bizarre looking styling wise. I just can't get past that." Then again not much meets my styling criteria from any manufacturer these days..Honda included.

I was real big on Yamaha in years past and have owned many, but these days, they don't make anything that appeals to me.

I took a pass on the new 2015 R1M, which I was ready to buy until I sat on the ZX-10R. The stalling on the freeway, need for a reflash, snatchy throttle response, recall on the Ohlins rear shock which could fail and cause an accident, and ridiculous 33" seat height all proved to be good reasons to have avoided that bike.

The FZ07 never felt right to me; spec sheet, it looked great, but just even sitting on it, I could tell the suspension was marshmallow-like.

Yamaha will come back, as has Kawasaki, who today seem to have the finest overall lineup of machines at the best prices.

However, Honda's lineup for '18 looks pretty good and that CB1000R is bound to be a fantastic bike, I think.

The Cafe version of the Z900RS reminds me of those animated cars and motorcycles from the Chevron commercials...

Reminds me of this:



That French Curve hard at work.



But the similarity is obvious in the animated cars, lots of curves.

[Ulvetanna_imp]

Sat on one yesterday. Sent Kawasaki a tweet about that bulbous tank. Sat on the 18 CB11EX down the row from it. Much better. I liked the 9RS otherwise though. My 919 had a radiator. I don't mind. The Z9RS is not retro retro but I'd still ride one. My 919 was so sweet at exactly 72 mph on the highway. Smoooooth. So there is something to be said for water cooling. And she sure did like an exit ramp. Just roll her on in and lean. A touch of front brake. Nice. But the CB11EX is still a beauty. What a piece of art.

That's how I feel about it. The Z900RS is a liquid-cooled motorcycle, and needs a radiator; a discussion of the engineering strategy behind the bulbous tank (to allow a full 4.5 gallons of fuel and the huge airbox needed for the engine's low-end torque) is found in another post. So I have to wonder, in this case, just exactly what could Kawasaki's engineers have done differently to assuage these aesthetic concerns?

There is only one answer: they could have built an air-cooled motorcycle! And they've already done that, over 15 years ago. The ZR750 was a beautiful motorcycle, in profile very similar to the new Z900RS. When it first came out, my buddy bought one right away, and I had the chance to ride it. It was a superb machine in every way.


A bone-stock Zephyr 750, circa 1992.


Not bad with the MRS pipes.

[url=https://www.cycleworld.com/focusing-in-on-kawasaki-zephyr-to-find-out-if-it-was-ultimate-750-from-archives]Cycle World has published an article about the ZR750, where it has named that bike the best standard of 1992, on its website.

Kawasaki produced versions of the ZR (Zephyr) in 400, 550, 750, and 1100 versions.


The Zephyr 1100 shares the "bulbous" tank design of the Z900RS. It's a Kawasaki signature throughout the line.


Not a bad-looking mill.

[url=https://www.cycleworld.com/riding-impression-zephyr-1100-from-archives#page-4]Cycle World has also posted a review of the Zephyr 1100 from 1992, which has a lot of interesting information about the bike's performance, its adherents, and its development.

I had another buddy who had a few of these retros, the 1100 in particular. He commuted for years on that bike. Later he upgraded to the ZRX1200 and rode that bike for tens of thousands of commuting miles. He still had one, last time I checked.


The ZRX1200 was the first liquid-cooled machine in the retro line of ZR's.

Kawasaki has been all the way down the road and back with respect to making retro-styled inline fours of the air-cooled variety. And what they've learned is that, these days, they just don't sell very well. The Z900RS is a very slimmed-down example of the same kind of bike as the ZRX1200. Motorcycle sales are down right now, and KHI has made the right decision in choosing the style and technology for the new Z series.

Anyone who owns a CB1100 today should be thanking their lucky stars that they got one now, since it doesn't look like the bike is going to be back in the USA, at least. Those folks have the bike they want, it doesn't have an ugly radiator, bulbous tank, or the wrong badge on the tank. And hopefully, the bike they have is the bike they want, and it'll make them happy. I can't say, but it may be that no one bike can have everything one might want. I suppose that's why we have a lot of good choices. And if another person's choice differs from ours, it can still provide the same satisfaction of ownership.

I leave it to Cycle World's excellent staff of 1992 to sum it up; these thoughts are equally relevant 15 years later:

Good times are what motorcycles are for, though if recent sales figures are anything to go by, a smaller percentage of people than ever are enjoying good times on new bikes. But who knows? There would seem to be strong demand, among riders and former riders, for a liter-class standard-style motorcycle that offers a workable combination of style, comfort, performance and value.

Those words, written over 15 years ago, couldn't be more apropos.

[VLJ_imp]

All I know is that Ulvetanna better get a move on, if he's going to grab a '17 CB in America. With spring just around the corner and no 2018 models coming to these shores, the remaining '17 EXs won't be available much longer.