Harley Livewire - who cares?

[Gone in 60]

While at the Born Free show on Saturday, there was no way that my wife and I could see all of the hundreds of bikes that were parked on the grass inside the show area before my wife said "ok, that's enough pot smoke for me, and the bikes are all looking the same to me now, can we go?"

But, of all the bikes that were there, the one that literally nobody looked at was the new Harley Livewire.

Harley had a substantial display of all of their new offerings, and making our way around handlebars and pipes, we came upon the Livewire. No ropes around it, out in the open on the grass for all the poking and prodding one would want to do. But, for the full ten minutes I stared, knelt down, poked and prodded, nobody else could give it the time of day.

My wife noticed that I was the only person who seemed to be interested in a bike that is supposed to be somewhat special. She asked "Aren't these things supposed to be a big deal?"
"Yes, they are."
"Why isn't anyone looking at it?"
"These people are traditional Harley enthusiasts. They wouldn't be interested in a Harley that doesn't make noise."
"Then who's going to buy it?"
"Probably people who will put them in collections and never ride them."
"Then why bother if nobody will ride them?"
"Marketing. But not to these people."

[Houtman_imp]

The Livewire is an ugly bike and it will be a millions of $$$ disaster for HD

[SportsterDoc]

Certainly not my style, 140 mile range (88 miles mixed riding) and $30K.
But 0-60 MPH in 3.0 seconds (CB1100 is 3.3) and another 1.9 seconds to 80 MPH.
Would like to run one locally for a few weeks.

[pekingduck]

I actually like the way the Livewire looks, until I get close enough to see the price tag.

And I agree, it will be/is a marketing disaster waiting to happen. Harley can only sell one thing - an air-cooled 45 degree vee-twin. They couldn't sell Buells, they couldn't sell V-Rods, and now they can't sell Big Twins because of the glut of used ones, and their base is getting older. I'd hate to be in their shoes now.

[the Ferret]

It is an important model for Harley Davidson, showing they are commited to the future when the current crop of riders can no longer support them. They are probably about $10k high on the Livewire, but they have never had trouble selling expensive bikes in the past ( well in the mid 70s they did, but pulled out of it) and if they are to remain vibrant in the future, they are going to have to figure a way to sell these too.

[misterprofessionality]

lots of automotive manufacturers have purposely made products that lose money and are not expected to sell. it's more of a demonstration than a viable product. the Bugatti Veyron, while impressive, is not a car that is going to sell well, and every one that sells (supposedly) loses money for VW. the Honda Valkyrie Rune was the same way. it was a huge loss for each one that was sold. The livewire will be the same issue. a ton of R&D to make an electric bike that is barely adequate at a price point that basically NOBODY will buy for any real use. but it has one purpse...to demonstrate Harley can change and can build something other than a street glide. the real test will be the streetfighter and the purported fully faired supersport that they're making. the adventure bike is also going to be a joke and a loss leader, but it does the same thing. it says "look. we can do this. we promise. don't give up on us."

i've never purchased a HD product, even though i have certainly spent my time in the seat of one, but I'm always willing to wait and see if they make something that gets me interested. if you asked me 2 years ago if i'd ever consider buying an Indian i'd say no way. now they make the FTR1200. my tune has changed.

to me, i care about the livewire because it says "wait and see." i'm waiting.

[GoldOxide_imp]

HD might do better if they made a two-seater front-wheel drive cage with a V-twin mill that was fuel efficient and very cool sounding and drive-able in winter. Of course, the challenge for them will be meeting industry standard crash safety - something they don't have to sweat over regarding motorcycles.

[pekingduck]

Positioning the Livewire as an image-building engineering showcase suggests they can afford to lose millions, and they can't. It doesn't draw people into their showrooms, and it isn't any breakthrough technology.

I remember walking into an H-D dealership many years ago, and asking where the Sportsters were. The salesman told me that H-D did not allow them in the same showroom as the Big Twins, and they were off in a smaller room, and the Buells were in another area. They only wanted to sell Big Twins.

Harley can't sell vertical twins, or "adventure" bikes, or off-road bikes or beginner bikes or sport bikes. Their 500 and 750 twins are not selling because they aren't big twins. They were never fully committed to diversifying, even going back to the Aermacchi days, and they are now paying the price for that.

The Livewire might be more attractive if they weren't saddled with the H-D name. I have no doubt that they have the engineering and manufacturing capability. If they had started up a separate entity, named it something like Wisconsin Electric Motorcycles, there would be less baggage. We wouldn't be asking "Why?"

Ten grand electric bikes don't sell, twenty grand electric bikes don't sell, and very few will see the value in a thirty grand one. It's not a large market now and won't be until it shows there are real advantages over existing internal-combustion bikes.

[Gone in 60]

It will serve its purpose. Leno loves alternative power. He’ll do a video with one in his shop, and might even bring it to The Rock Store in Malibu for a few minutes to be seen with it in public. All of the mags and websites will hail it as “finally being available”, then damn it with faint praise to keep their HD advertising dollars while trying to paint the picture that it’s an expensive toy. They’ll give one to the influential Hollywood riding elite (maybe not Keanu, he has his own brand). Maybe one or two of them will show up to an award show on one instead of a Tesla. I’ll see a few at Cars and Coffee meetups.

Then, like the GM EV1, we’ll see them in museums ten years from now as curiosities.

[Bheezy27403_imp]

To answer the title of the thread...nobody.

I was only impressed that the company was actually going to diversify and try to keep up. I gave them props for that in fact (for the adventure too that won't sell, yikes that thing has a face only a mother could love, but at least it's tangible). Then they went and hung a $30k price tag on it assuring that it won't sell and clearly they don't want them to. Idiots.