ABS: Good, or Bad?

[Red Mist_imp]

We saw one of our member get into trouble with an ABS bike when a car was going to enter his path. That was dry pavement in the daylight. He did stop, but with his front end compressed he was enable to make any corrections.

Lets just use an example:

Wet pavement and a car pulls out in front of you, you have ABS but the pulsating of the brakes does not allow you to stop in time, how do you change direction?? You don't

Non abs you feather the front and hard on the rear// your not going to stop on time, you have options. Lock up the rear and change direction hoping you don't high side, or just lock it up and low side and let the bike go out from under you. I'm sure a lot of member here have rode dirt, this is a common practice.

There's no doubt a new or inexperienced rider would be better off with ABS.

Edit: LOL I can remember when we where kids on our dirt bikes doing this all the time but with age I'm not sure how well this would turn out. I would like to think it would be instinct but I'm not sure.

So, without ABS, he would have locked up the front tire, washed-out the front end, and fallen. Seems like ABS saved his butt (and bike) from an accident to me.

Good save FB your riding experience helped you a lot. Those close calls happens and you kept your cool and made it

Since Ridem32 has shown up it has certainly taken the load off of me. Every single thing he has said is correct here. We have very similar backgrounds, extensive dirt riding, dual-sport, motocross/desert, also I don't know all his experience but I have roadraced and taught with a track school, and continue to do track days on my GSX-R.

One thing that should be thought about here is that your bike should decelerate just as fast as it can accelerate. Most bikes can pull more Gs with the brakes than they can with the throttle, but only if the rider knows how. Anyone can twist a throttle, but few riders are actually accomplished on the brakes. I enjoy braking as much as any other part of riding, even more, really. I love hauling the bike down at corner entry and smoothly rolling it onto the perfect line whilst easing off the brakes and picking up the throttle. I love just braking HARD on clean straight pavement until a bit of daylight shows under the rear tire, so hard that it takes the same force as my body weight to brace myself against the bars.

At track days, there are a lot of guys and gals who like to take the superwide lookieloo line, which, BTW, is the slow line around the track. The shortest distance around the track is almost always the fastest, and squaring off the turn, Kenny Roberts-style, is the way to do it. But that requires great brake and throttle control in order to stuff it up the inside, "in slow, out fast". The wide, sweeping line uses little brakes or acceleration and anyone using this line to race is going to get smoked right up the inside all day long, but it's favored by newer riders because some schools teach it and talk it up. Riders like it because it doesn't require much braking or acceleration, something that can't be done when you are all the way over on the side of the tire. I like to take the tight line, square it off, stuff it in underneath, and then blast out earlier than the other guy, because I'm more upright and can get on the throttle sooner. It's a dirt-riding technique. Kenny Roberts talks about it extensively in his book, and Freddie Spencer remarked earlier this year about Marc Marquez re-introducing this technique that he and Kenny used in the 1980s; Roberts also mentioned this in another interview recently in MCN.

MotoGP bikes don't use ABS and the point is that all ABS systems do is compensate for a lack of skill or a mistake on the part of the rider. ABS cannot possibly stop the bike faster than a skilled rider on dry, clean pavement. As Ridem32 has correctly said, many tests are available that prove this. A very sophisticated control system can certainly help under wet or difficult conditions, but control systems vary greatly from one vehicle to the next. Some do nothing more than release the brake at or just before the point of lockup. Others are supplied with data from multiple accelerometers and lean angle sensors connected to a high-performance ECU.

The bottom line here is that until someone has mastered this very important skill, the discussion isn't meaningful. Most riders these days will never throw a leg over a dirtbike, they want to start out with something big and powerful. In such a case, I would want all the ABS, traction control, and ECU management in there that is available.

But it's not for me, and to demonstrate why, just a couple of months ago, Cycle World picked the GSX-R 750 as the best middleweight superbike available, as compared to the Ducati 899 twin and MV Agusta triple, both of which made more peak horsepower on the dyno. But the Suzuki had the fastest lap times (at the Streets of Willow) and also the fastest straightaway speeds. But, unlike the two Italian bikes, it did NOT have any electronic intervention, such as traction control; it's all analog and all up to the rider. It was rider skill that got the most out of the bike and that will always be the case.

The more we work at building skill the better off we are, but brake and engine intervention are here to stay. Newer riders should take advantage of all these things.

Please note: When I say "you" I mostly mean "dear reader" and not necessarily the person I quoted.

Comparing track riding to riding on the street is fallacious since the track is swept clean and there aren't cagers running around trying to kill you, dropping their ill-maintained vehicles' fluids all over the pavement. And MotoGP bikes all have traction control. (Rossi, cheating, blah, blah, doesn't matter, the TC is better than the rider).

That being said, the key word in your sentence, that I don't necessarily disagree with, is "skilled" rider. I submit that hardly anyone here/any where is a skilled rider ("skilled" such that it makes that sentence true for the vast majority of riders). Obviously, you have extensive experience, doing track days, teaching, and what-not. You have to realize that 99% of the motorcycling public has not ever done that, and have no desire to do so, and that's their choice.

That 99%'s first reaction to impending doom is to clamp down on the brakes as hard as they can; they know of no other avoidance technique. They don't know about threshold braking or have the wherewithal to swerve because they haven't been keeping abreast of their escape routes. What's more, as I mentioned previously, the surface over which we ride is a variable quantity. You cannot possibly know beforehand the condition of the road surface before something unexpected happens, by its very nature.

For riding on the street, ABS has one small disadvantage that only a tiny fraction of the motorcycling public would be detrimentally affected by. For EVERYONE ELSE (the 99%), ABS offers tremendous advantage. Clamp down on the lever, the front wheel will not wash out on you and you have a MUCH better chance of making it than without it. For the VAST MAJORITY OF RIDERS (which is to say, basically, everyone), ABS is better than not having ABS.

For those advocating sliding/dumping the bike in a possible accident situation, I ask, did you even take the MSF BRC? The coefficient of friction between the asphalt and tire is _WAY_ higher than between the asphalt and your jeans/leathers/whatever. You're still going to hit whatever it was, except now you're going to hit it at a higher rate of speed. Good luck with that.

Lastly, for those with "years of experience," I submit that it doesn't really mean anything. If you haven't practiced threshold braking ON THIS BIKE (which itself is hard because you really need outriggers to find the envelope unless you like a rashed-up bike), over many different kinds of surfaces, at least 1,000 times for each different kind (the generally accepted average number of times a person must repeat an action before it becomes subconscious muscle memory), all prior experience is basically moot. You have no idea where the threshold is for the front tire on this bike, and you're back into the crowd of 99% for whom ABS is a benefit because you can clamp on the binders with all your fury and not worry about washing out the front tire while utilizing the maximum braking force afforded to you by the braking system and the available traction of the road surface at the time.

Well, I guess we are saying about the same thing here, and to just reiterate, most riders these days don't start in the dirt like a lot of us did so they're never going to develop those innate skills.

What seems impossible to someone who can't do it or doesn't understand it is entirely possible to someone who has been practicing it for thousands of hours. There's a book called "Outliers" that lays out the theory that anyone who's very good at something has practiced at it a minimum of 10,000 hours. After 31 years of riding I've gotten in well over ten thousand hours so I can indeed do things on a motorcycle that many cannot.

As far as track riding having little or nothing in common with street riding, I could not disagree more, and I've thousands of miles of racetrack time on many tracks. What the track allows us to do is to get right up to our personal limits and/or the limits of the motorcycle. Then, when the crap hits the fan, after enough track practice and learning how hard we can brake, how far we can lean, and just what we can really do if necessary, we can use the brakes, tires, and engine in that moment to avoid the accident rather than have it.

Racetracks are not always swept clean nor are they pristine as a billiard ball. Many are as rough as public roads, or have pavement changes throughout. I've been on many a track day or race practice where someone's blown an engine and laid a nice bath of synthetic oil across the track. On one occasion six riders crashed before the corner marshals got everyone stopped. Because I had my eyes up and on the flags, I took the line through the very bottom of the turn, away from the spill, and managed to get through OK. There is plenty of traffic on the racetrack and a few sessions will help us learn to be more at ease and confident when surrounded with other vehicles at speed. The hazards and challenges of the street are replaced with other hazards and challenges; the point being that on the track you are still challenging yourself and managing hazards, raising your skill and limitations as you go.

ABS is a bandaid, not a substitute for skilled riding or good planning. However, although I don't have it and don't want it (the one bike I have with it requires much longer stopping distances with it turned on because it kicks in too soon), it's a good thing to have for riders these days who will probably never do a track day or ride a dirt bike.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. Learning to ride a bike to its limits opens a whole world of options on the street, besides grabbing the binders and hoping for the best.

I'm just a single data point but I had a lot of avoidable accidents before I spent 3 yrs racing, and none since (about 28 yrs.).

It's hard to overstate the benefits of track time on street riding proficiency. On the other hand, if you choose not to learn to ride a bike to it's limits, I highly recommend ABS.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. Learning to ride a bike to its limits opens a whole world of options on the street, besides grabbing the binders and hoping for the best.

I'm just a single data point but I had a lot of avoidable accidents before I spent 3 yrs racing, and none since (about 28 yrs.).

It's hard to overstate the benefits of track time on street riding proficiency. On the other hand, if you choose not to learn to ride a bike to it's limits, I highly recommend ABS. +100

[Ridem32_imp]

Everyone go check out my new thread Man & bike as one. It's unreal. This guy can ride better than we can walk! It's true watch it till the end. It's a true match with a man and his bike !!

[Guth_imp]

One irony for the general audience of this site is that as a person builds up cumulative hours of riding experience, that same person also ages. Sadly, with age comes a degradation of physical skills and reaction times.

ABS isn't going to help someone avoid every single bad situation involving braking or avoidance maneuvers. Neither are track days or riding dirt bikes for that matter. On the flip side, non of these things are going to hurt ones chances of survival on the street.

While I chose to go without ABS, I don't see it as a bandaid. I certainly do not view ABS as a substitute for skilled riding or good planning, but I do see it as complimentary to those things. It would seem to me that a truly skilled rider at the top of his or her game could hop on a bike with a good ABS system and use it to its full advantage. If that's not the case, I'd generally suspect the riders skills are at fault rather than the ABS.

[Ridem32_imp]

It's not that ABS is not a good safe add on. It is. All I'm saying is to me it takes away from the full control of the rider. Heck I have ABS on both my deluxe models. I was riding my 78 cb750four in my yard. I have a huge yard. 5 acres I also have another 15 acres that about 4 years ago I built a full Moto cross track. Had people coming from all over to ride. Doubles, triples, table tops step ups bad bad woop section. Made the track for my son. But back to the yard. And the 78 750four I was running about 18mph and my sons dog a Great Dane ran out in front of me I hit the rear brake. ( drum ) slid the bike around rear tire locked up then gassed it and missed the dog and was headed back from where I was coming from. No biggie if I would of slid down but with ABS I could not of done that. And I'm soon to be 54 in a few months ! I'm by far no expert but I can ride and can still think. Riding a bike should be a part of you after so many years if you really are into bikes! Nothing to argue about I just think I ( meaning me ) should be able to lock up my rear tire if I want to or need to. Crazy as it might should and I guess to some it is. But I had a 03 ultra classic that on long trips I would set my cruise move to the back set with no way to hit brakes or touch handle bars and ride for over 45 min on the back set. Had several friends on our 5k mile plus trips and they knew what I was going to do. Relax and ride. Never ride over your head! But man and machine can become as one and it's no limit to what you can do on a bike . Yea call me crazy but I got another good friend and we can swap bikes going down the hwy! My wife and I can swap from front to back of bike while cruising! Got another friend that can wheelie a gsxr1000 with 5 people on it and then do a stoppie with the 5 on it with rear end almost flipping over the front but he can control that bike with mere brake control. Wet roads etc newbie riders ABS is great. Guys our age we rode all of our life's with out ABS and we HAD TO LEARN TO CONTROL IN RAIN, water, gravel etc. Yes I'm ole fashion and proud of it. As I get older I might want the training wheels to keep myself in the wind

[Red Mist_imp]

One irony for the general audience of this site is that as a person builds up cumulative hours of riding experience, that same person also ages. Sadly, with age comes a degradation of physical skills and reaction times.

ABS isn't going to help someone avoid every single bad situation involving braking or avoidance maneuvers. Neither are track days or riding dirt bikes for that matter. On the flip side, non of these things are going to hurt ones chances of survival on the street.

While I chose to go without ABS, I don't see it as a bandaid. I certainly do not view ABS as a substitute for skilled riding or good planning, but I do see it as complimentary to those things. It would seem to me that a truly skilled rider at the top of his or her game could hop on a bike with a good ABS system and use it to its full advantage. If that's not the case, I'd generally suspect the riders skills are at fault rather than the ABS.

Not so. First off, I'm certainly one of the older riders on this site, at 57, but I am riding as well as I ever have, through continual practice and training. I don't ride off-road any longer but at my last track day I was planting my knee quite happily into the pavement and pulling the front tire off the ground from time to time...not too bad for an older man. In fact, I'm riding quicker now than ever because the equipment I have is so much better and tires have improved dramatically. So you can forget the notion that old guys get slow. I rode with Reg Pridmore recently and he rides like greased lightning, and the guy's pushing 70.

Second, we need to understand what ABS actually does and that's our problem here, a lack of understanding.

ABS does not just "take over" the braking and brake to perfection, like the RoboCop suit. All it does, to one degree or another, is release the brakes when a slide is detected. At this point the rider should have brains enough to release the brake a little and regain control. Most ABS systems are low-resolution, low-processing power, and are a band-aid only.

Automobile manuals have been telling us to mash the brakes to the floor and ride it out in an emergency and that's also wrong for someone who knows how to use the brakes. I have a couple of pretty high-performance cars and it's fun to feel the ABS and stability control kick in when the tires touch some uneven pavement, but it's only for a few tenths of a second. The rest of the time, I'm in control.

Consider this...the winner in a MotoGP race is the rider who crosses the finish line first (unless there is some technicality involved, of course). If ABS, like traction control, would help with this, these guys would be using it. They don't use it because it would be very dangerous if a pack of racers came shrieking into a corner, and the ABS released the brakes on a rider's machine whilst in very close quarters with another bike. It takes a lot of skill and concentration and you can't have computers running things. It's up to the rider to be good enough. If you have never ridden a machine with terrific brakes, in a racing environment, you cannot appreciate the superb feel and control that great brakes provide, at all lean angles and under all conditions. I can tell you that a good rider can very precisely and smoothly control and modulate the brakes even at deep lean angles and during a cornering transition.

Track days, off-road riding, braking and cornering exercises...we can't learn to really ride a motorcycle to its potential just riding around on the street or reading about it, we've got to do it. Or as Flynrider said -- and I paraphrase -- we can just keep doing whatever we're doing and hope the ABS works as imagined.

It's not that ABS is not a good safe add on. It is. All I'm saying is to me it takes away from the full control of the rider. Heck I have ABS on both my deluxe models. I was riding my 78 cb750four in my yard. I have a huge yard. 5 acres I also have another 15 acres that about 4 years ago I built a full Moto cross track. Had people coming from all over to ride. Doubles, triples, table tops step ups bad bad woop section. Made the track for my son. But back to the yard. And the 78 750four I was running about 18mph and my sons dog a Great Dane ran out in front of me I hit the rear brake. ( drum ) slid the bike around rear tire locked up then gassed it and missed the dog and was headed back from where I was coming from. No biggie if I would of slid down but with ABS I could not of done that. And I'm soon to be 54 in a few months ! I'm by far no expert but I can ride and can still think. Riding a bike should be a part of you after so many years if you really are into bikes! Nothing to argue about I just think I ( meaning me ) should be able to lock up my rear tire if I want to or need to. Crazy as it might should and I guess to some it is. But I had a 03 ultra classic that on long trips I would set my cruise move to the back set with no way to hit brakes or touch handle bars and ride for over 45 min on the back set. Had several friends on our 5k mile plus trips and they knew what I was going to do. Relax and ride. Never ride over your head! But man and machine can become as one and it's no limit to what you can do on a bike . Yea call me crazy but I got another good friend and we can swap bikes going down the hwy! My wife and I can swap from front to back of bike while cruising! Got another friend that can wheelie a gsxr1000 with 5 people on it and then do a stoppie with the 5 on it with rear end almost flipping over the front but he can control that bike with mere brake control. Wet roads etc newbie riders ABS is great. Guys our age we rode all of our life's with out ABS and we HAD TO LEARN TO CONTROL IN RAIN, water, gravel etc. Yes I'm ole fashion and proud of it. As I get older I might want the training wheels to keep myself in the wind

Well-said, my friend, well-said. Freddie Spencer, a little-known racer that you might have heard of once or twice, once remarked that he had a track built in his back yard and when he was four years old, rode that track from dawn to dark, clockwise and counterclockwise, with half of it wet down and the other half dry. Spencer did and can still do amazing things on a motorcycle (such as winning a World Championship at 19) but it all comes down to training and experience.

I myself could also relate countless stories of stuff that was just no big deal because I know how to handle a bike; once a guy crashed right in front of me on the racetrack and I knew he was going to slide right into my path. The only way I could avoid him was to lock up the rear in an "on/off" pattern as any good dirt rider knows how to do. This kicked out the rear end of my motorcycle and allowed me to just barely miss him. I walked the track right after and could clearly see the skid marks in a broken-line type of pattern showing what I did.

Another time (since we are chewing the fat) I was riding with a group of people at high altitudes in December, and was following a guy who was quite fast. I was riding a BMW R100GS, about 470 pounds and 58 HP but it could rail through the fast turns pretty well. I came around a right hander at about 60 mph and it was just as pretty as a picture, all coated with a thin layer of rime ice. There was no way to get through it so I just stood the bike up, shot over to the opposite shoulder, which was unpaved dirt (no traffic coming) and brought the bike to a nice stop.

The next guy who came around crashed.

Guys we are not making this stuff up.

[Ridem32_imp]

One thing for sure if you ride a street bike even a low safe speeds you are going to have very close calls very often. That's just part of riding a street bike. But the more you ride the better you get. It's so sad to see a 18 year old that had never rode a bike walks in a motorcycle dealer and buys a 1000 sport bike!! Not a good idea ! Not even a 600 sport bike. Most of those young guys get killed it's so very sad to me.

[emptysea]

I'm going to try this one more time: ABS does not take away ANY of your control of your bike. It activates upon brake lock. Once your brakes are locked you have virtually no control of your bike anyway. Plus, your conventional braking strategy will work exactly the same on an ABS bike as a nonABS bike.

I understand that you feel that you don't need ABS and that is your choice. However, there are newer AND experienced riders reading this thread trying to find out if ABS is better than conventional. Some of the comments here seem to imply that no rider, or at least no experienced rider, should have ABS. Keeping in mind that we all should be employing good technique and therefore avoid locking the brakes in the first place, ABS is better because it will stop your bike in a more controlled manner IF you ever have a technique breakdown for whatever reason.

[Guth_imp]

It's not that ABS is not a good safe add on. It is. All I'm saying is to me it takes away from the full control of the rider. Heck I have ABS on both my deluxe models. I was riding my 78 cb750four in my yard. I have a huge yard. 5 acres I also have another 15 acres that about 4 years ago I built a full Moto cross track. Had people coming from all over to ride. Doubles, triples, table tops step ups bad bad woop section. Made the track for my son. But back to the yard. And the 78 750four I was running about 18mph and my sons dog a Great Dane ran out in front of me I hit the rear brake. ( drum ) slid the bike around rear tire locked up then gassed it and missed the dog and was headed back from where I was coming from. No biggie if I would of slid down but with ABS I could not of done that. And I'm soon to be 54 in a few months ! I'm by far no expert but I can ride and can still think. Riding a bike should be a part of you after so many years if you really are into bikes! Nothing to argue about I just think I ( meaning me ) should be able to lock up my rear tire if I want to or need to. Crazy as it might should and I guess to some it is. But I had a 03 ultra classic that on long trips I would set my cruise move to the back set with no way to hit brakes or touch handle bars and ride for over 45 min on the back set. Had several friends on our 5k mile plus trips and they knew what I was going to do. Relax and ride. Never ride over your head! But man and machine can become as one and it's no limit to what you can do on a bike . Yea call me crazy but I got another good friend and we can swap bikes going down the hwy! My wife and I can swap from front to back of bike while cruising! Got another friend that can wheelie a gsxr1000 with 5 people on it and then do a stoppie with the 5 on it with rear end almost flipping over the front but he can control that bike with mere brake control. Wet roads etc newbie riders ABS is great. Guys our age we rode all of our life's with out ABS and we HAD TO LEARN TO CONTROL IN RAIN, water, gravel etc. Yes I'm ole fashion and proud of it. As I get older I might want the training wheels to keep myself in the wind

C'mon now – you were basically exhibiting a lack of good planning in that situation. ABS or no, you were already making some less than stellar choices.

[Ridem32_imp]

Guth go ride a 14 deluxe get up to. 60 mph and stomp on the foot petal and see how fast you stop ! Paint a strip line in the street and when you get stopped measure it. Then do it on your 13 model same speed at the same line use your foot to brake as hard as you can with out locking up rear tire then report back to me the distance of both bikes. I think even you will be shocked. And yes a. 78 750 honda can lock up the tire in the grass and I can spin it around and gas it with out putting foot down. don't let the size of a bike fool ya. People do it everyday for fun on dirt bikes but it's the same on any bike. Do the brake test at. 60 I'm sure you can find a 14 deluxe to ride don't worry about locking up the rear tire stand up on the rear brake petal
ES that's what we are saying sometimes wheel locking could keep you from wrecking. So your right about ABS being the same except it will brake slower. What I mean by control of you bike is sometimes locking up the rear tire

[Guth_imp]

One irony for the general audience of this site is that as a person builds up cumulative hours of riding experience, that same person also ages. Sadly, with age comes a degradation of physical skills and reaction times.

ABS isn't going to help someone avoid every single bad situation involving braking or avoidance maneuvers. Neither are track days or riding dirt bikes for that matter. On the flip side, non of these things are going to hurt ones chances of survival on the street.

While I chose to go without ABS, I don't see it as a bandaid. I certainly do not view ABS as a substitute for skilled riding or good planning, but I do see it as complimentary to those things. It would seem to me that a truly skilled rider at the top of his or her game could hop on a bike with a good ABS system and use it to its full advantage. If that's not the case, I'd generally suspect the riders skills are at fault rather than the ABS.

Not so. First off, I'm certainly one of the older riders on this site, at 57, but I am riding as well as I ever have, through continual practice and training. I don't ride off-road any longer but at my last track day I was planting my knee quite happily into the pavement and pulling the front tire off the ground from time to time...not too bad for an older man. In fact, I'm riding quicker now than ever because the equipment I have is so much better and tires have improved dramatically. So you can forget the notion that old guys get slow. I rode with Reg Pridmore recently and he rides like greased lightning, and the guy's pushing 70.

Second, we need to understand what ABS actually does and that's our problem here, a lack of understanding.

ABS does not just "take over" the braking and brake to perfection, like the RoboCop suit. All it does, to one degree or another, is release the brakes when a slide is detected. At this point the rider should have brains enough to release the brake a little and regain control. Most ABS systems are low-resolution, low-processing power, and are a band-aid only.

Automobile manuals have been telling us to mash the brakes to the floor and ride it out in an emergency and that's also wrong for someone who knows how to use the brakes. I have a couple of pretty high-performance cars and it's fun to feel the ABS and stability control kick in when the tires touch some uneven pavement, but it's only for a few tenths of a second. The rest of the time, I'm in control.

Consider this...the winner in a MotoGP race is the rider who crosses the finish line first (unless there is some technicality involved, of course). If ABS, like traction control, would help with this, these guys would be using it. They don't use it because it would be very dangerous if a pack of racers came shrieking into a corner, and the ABS released the brakes on a rider's machine whilst in very close quarters with another bike. It takes a lot of skill and concentration and you can't have computers running things. It's up to the rider to be good enough. If you have never ridden a machine with terrific brakes, in a racing environment, you cannot appreciate the superb feel and control that great brakes provide, at all lean angles and under all conditions. I can tell you that a good rider can very precisely and smoothly control and modulate the brakes even at deep lean angles and during a cornering transition.

Track days, off-road riding, braking and cornering exercises...we can't learn to really ride a motorcycle to its potential just riding around on the street or reading about it, we've got to do it. Or as Flynrider said -- and I paraphrase -- we can just keep doing whatever we're doing and hope the ABS works as imagined.

It's not that ABS is not a good safe add on. It is. All I'm saying is to me it takes away from the full control of the rider. Heck I have ABS on both my deluxe models. I was riding my 78 cb750four in my yard. I have a huge yard. 5 acres I also have another 15 acres that about 4 years ago I built a full Moto cross track. Had people coming from all over to ride. Doubles, triples, table tops step ups bad bad woop section. Made the track for my son. But back to the yard. And the 78 750four I was running about 18mph and my sons dog a Great Dane ran out in front of me I hit the rear brake. ( drum ) slid the bike around rear tire locked up then gassed it and missed the dog and was headed back from where I was coming from. No biggie if I would of slid down but with ABS I could not of done that. And I'm soon to be 54 in a few months ! I'm by far no expert but I can ride and can still think. Riding a bike should be a part of you after so many years if you really are into bikes! Nothing to argue about I just think I ( meaning me ) should be able to lock up my rear tire if I want to or need to. Crazy as it might should and I guess to some it is. But I had a 03 ultra classic that on long trips I would set my cruise move to the back set with no way to hit brakes or touch handle bars and ride for over 45 min on the back set. Had several friends on our 5k mile plus trips and they knew what I was going to do. Relax and ride. Never ride over your head! But man and machine can become as one and it's no limit to what you can do on a bike . Yea call me crazy but I got another good friend and we can swap bikes going down the hwy! My wife and I can swap from front to back of bike while cruising! Got another friend that can wheelie a gsxr1000 with 5 people on it and then do a stoppie with the 5 on it with rear end almost flipping over the front but he can control that bike with mere brake control. Wet roads etc newbie riders ABS is great. Guys our age we rode all of our life's with out ABS and we HAD TO LEARN TO CONTROL IN RAIN, water, gravel etc. Yes I'm ole fashion and proud of it. As I get older I might want the training wheels to keep myself in the wind

Well-said, my friend, well-said. Freddie Spencer, a little-known racer that you might have heard of once or twice, once remarked that he had a track built in his back yard and when he was four years old, rode that track from dawn to dark, clockwise and counterclockwise, with half of it wet down and the other half dry. Spencer did and can still do amazing things on a motorcycle (such as winning a World Championship at 19) but it all comes down to training and experience.

I myself could also relate countless stories of stuff that was just no big deal because I know how to handle a bike; once a guy crashed right in front of me on the racetrack and I knew he was going to slide right into my path. The only way I could avoid him was to lock up the rear in an "on/off" pattern as any good dirt rider knows how to do. This kicked out the rear end of my motorcycle and allowed me to just barely miss him. I walked the track right after and could clearly see the skid marks in a broken-line type of pattern showing what I did.

Another time (since we are chewing the fat) I was riding with a group of people at high altitudes in December, and was following a guy who was quite fast. I was riding a BMW R100GS, about 470 pounds and 58 HP but it could rail through the fast turns pretty well. I came around a right hander at about 60 mph and it was just as pretty as a picture, all coated with a thin layer of rime ice. There was no way to get through it so I just stood the bike up, shot over to the opposite shoulder, which was unpaved dirt (no traffic coming) and brought the bike to a nice stop.

The next guy who came around crashed.

Guys we are not making this stuff up.

Like it or not, old guys in and of themselves do get slower. This is a big part of why the up and coming guys in the world of racing are almost always younger than the outgoing "old guys" that they are displacing from the podium.

Your statement somewhat makes my point for me. Advances in technology have helped to offset the negative impacts of the aging rider, and then some.
Ridem, as far as the CB1100 goes, I'm not sure what you're getting at. Do you not use the front brake on your bike?

I'm going to try this one more time: ABS does not take away ANY of your control of your bike. It activates upon brake lock. Once your brakes are locked you have virtually no control of your bike anyway. Plus, your conventional braking strategy will work exactly the same on an ABS bike as a nonABS bike.

I understand that you feel that you don't need ABS and that is your choice. However, there are newer AND experienced riders reading this thread trying to find out if ABS is better than conventional. Some of the comments here seem to imply that no rider, or at least no experienced rider, should have ABS. Keeping in mind that we all should be employing good technique and therefore avoid locking the brakes in the first place, ABS is better because it will stop your bike in a more controlled manner IF you ever have a technique breakdown for whatever reason.

That's why I find John McGuinness' comments regarding ABS so insightful. He definitely contradicts the notion mentioned above and his skill set is off of the scale.