CAUTION WHEN CHOOSING OIL

[CIP57_imp]

Revived and maybe good for 17,000 more hits

[flynrider]

Years ago I had extremely good luck with Golden Spectro but I also changed oil and filter every 2000 miles. I think that had as much to do with the excellent shape the motor was in than the oil I choose.

The Guzzi guys really like Rotella but the engine and tranny are separate with different oils so no clutch worries. After owning a Guzzi I think one could make a very good case to keep the engine and tranny separate. It would be easier to do on the inline fours if the motor was length wise like the Triumph Rocket or the Henderson Four but that makes for long bikes (which is fine by me; but I got long arms).

My biggest gripe about the oil change; the weather is conspiring to keep me off the darn bike so I can get the miles on to justify its' first oil change. It's enough to make you shake your cane against the sky.

One of the better oil threads I've ever read was over on ThumperTalk.com. Some guy went through a bunch of oils (and miles; the data was staggering) and sent the oil out to be analyzed. Turns out, on the XR650L, with that four valve head, without an oil cooler ANY oil was toast at around 500 miles. He installed an oil cooler. I will too.

But like anything else; if you don't know squawt; stick to the manual. The more you know the more you can experiment and still be safe. Me; I'm going to experiment with chain lube oil for now.

But a hearty thank you to the original poster regarding Rotella oil. Good to know and fills in wee bit of darkness.

Oil analysis is the key. I ran a series on my CB750 several years ago and learned some equally surprising things. Mainly that an air cooled motorcycle that operates in 100+ temps for about 6 months out of the year will cook/churn a multigrade dino oil to its base weight in less than 2K miles. The combination of high operating temps and shearing by the tranny gears is pretty brutal on the polymer chains that are responsible for keeping the oil thick at higher temps.

As a result, I cut my oil change intervals to 1500 mi. on the CB750. I went to a synthetic on the CB11, as it is supposed to hold its properties better under high temps. Of course, I won't know for sure until I get several samples analyzed.

If you really want to know what's going on inside your engine, a consistent series of oil analysis will tell you more than any post in a forum.

Oil analysis is the key. I ran a series on my CB750 several years ago and learned some equally surprising things. Mainly that an air cooled motorcycle that operates in 100+ temps for about 6 months out of the year will cook/churn a multigrade dino oil to its base weight in less than 2K miles. The combination of high operating temps and shearing by the tranny gears is pretty brutal on the polymer chains that are responsible for keeping the oil thick at higher temps.

As a result, I cut my oil change intervals to 1500 mi. on the CB750. I went to a synthetic on the CB11, as it is supposed to hold its properties better under high temps. Of course, I won't know for sure until I get several samples analyzed.

If you really want to know what's going on inside your engine, a consistent series of oil analysis will tell you more than any post in a forum.
I hate to weigh back in on an oil thread but have been bored over the winter. Appreciate the info fly. Im well aware of the benifits of oil analysis but I am not smart enough to understand them in their totality. What oil do you run in the 750?

I was changing mine at about 2K miles give or take just hoping to be on the safe side with Shell Rotella 15w 40. I was planning on doing the same thing on the 1100. Have not changed it yet. I know you know your stuff if your a pilot because planes are extremely well cared for.

Tell me what you run in each bike and your intervals on changes. Thanks. I think we are maybe on the only members here that have NIghthawks and a CB11 to boot.

Hey F7,

I'm running Rotella T6 synthetic in both bikes now, due to the heat/shear related issues I had before. Both bikes ran on T6 through the hottest part of the summer and I just received a couple of test kits from Blackstone, so I'll soon know how it held up over 3-3.5K miles of hot operation.

Overall, the regular 15w-40 Rotella had no problems going 3K miles in the cooler months, it was just the super hot summer time temps here that were breaking it down faster. If the T6 looks like it held up in the heat, I'm planning on just using it in both bikes year round and changing at around 3K.

[OldF7Guy_imp]

Years ago I had extremely good luck with Golden Spectro but I also changed oil and filter every 2000 miles. I think that had as much to do with the excellent shape the motor was in than the oil I choose.

The Guzzi guys really like Rotella but the engine and tranny are separate with different oils so no clutch worries. After owning a Guzzi I think one could make a very good case to keep the engine and tranny separate. It would be easier to do on the inline fours if the motor was length wise like the Triumph Rocket or the Henderson Four but that makes for long bikes (which is fine by me; but I got long arms).

My biggest gripe about the oil change; the weather is conspiring to keep me off the darn bike so I can get the miles on to justify its' first oil change. It's enough to make you shake your cane against the sky.

One of the better oil threads I've ever read was over on ThumperTalk.com. Some guy went through a bunch of oils (and miles; the data was staggering) and sent the oil out to be analyzed. Turns out, on the XR650L, with that four valve head, without an oil cooler ANY oil was toast at around 500 miles. He installed an oil cooler. I will too.

But like anything else; if you don't know squawt; stick to the manual. The more you know the more you can experiment and still be safe. Me; I'm going to experiment with chain lube oil for now.

But a hearty thank you to the original poster regarding Rotella oil. Good to know and fills in wee bit of darkness.

Oil analysis is the key. I ran a series on my CB750 several years ago and learned some equally surprising things. Mainly that an air cooled motorcycle that operates in 100+ temps for about 6 months out of the year will cook/churn a multigrade dino oil to its base weight in less than 2K miles. The combination of high operating temps and shearing by the tranny gears is pretty brutal on the polymer chains that are responsible for keeping the oil thick at higher temps.

As a result, I cut my oil change intervals to 1500 mi. on the CB750. I went to a synthetic on the CB11, as it is supposed to hold its properties better under high temps. Of course, I won't know for sure until I get several samples analyzed.

If you really want to know what's going on inside your engine, a consistent series of oil analysis will tell you more than any post in a forum.

Oil analysis is the key. I ran a series on my CB750 several years ago and learned some equally surprising things. Mainly that an air cooled motorcycle that operates in 100+ temps for about 6 months out of the year will cook/churn a multigrade dino oil to its base weight in less than 2K miles. The combination of high operating temps and shearing by the tranny gears is pretty brutal on the polymer chains that are responsible for keeping the oil thick at higher temps.

As a result, I cut my oil change intervals to 1500 mi. on the CB750. I went to a synthetic on the CB11, as it is supposed to hold its properties better under high temps. Of course, I won't know for sure until I get several samples analyzed.

If you really want to know what's going on inside your engine, a consistent series of oil analysis will tell you more than any post in a forum.
I hate to weigh back in on an oil thread but have been bored over the winter. Appreciate the info fly. Im well aware of the benifits of oil analysis but I am not smart enough to understand them in their totality. What oil do you run in the 750?

I was changing mine at about 2K miles give or take just hoping to be on the safe side with Shell Rotella 15w 40. I was planning on doing the same thing on the 1100. Have not changed it yet. I know you know your stuff if your a pilot because planes are extremely well cared for.

Tell me what you run in each bike and your intervals on changes. Thanks. I think we are maybe on the only members here that have NIghthawks and a CB11 to boot.

Hey F7,

I'm running Rotella T6 synthetic in both bikes now, due to the heat/shear related issues I had before. Both bikes ran on T6 through the hottest part of the summer and I just received a couple of test kits from Blackstone, so I'll soon know how it held up over 3-3.5K miles of hot operation.

Overall, the regular 15w-40 Rotella had no problems going 3K miles in the cooler months, it was just the super hot summer time temps here that were breaking it down faster. If the T6 looks like it held up in the heat, I'm planning on just using it in both bikes year round and changing at around 3K.

Hey F7,

I'm running Rotella T6 synthetic in both bikes now, due to the heat/shear related issues I had before. Both bikes ran on T6 through the hottest part of the summer and I just received a couple of test kits from Blackstone, so I'll soon know how it held up over 3-3.5K miles of hot operation.

Overall, the regular 15w-40 Rotella had no problems going 3K miles in the cooler months, it was just the super hot summer time temps here that were breaking it down faster. If the T6 looks like it held up in the heat, I'm planning on just using it in both bikes year round and changing at around 3K.
Thank you for replying and I know you have 40K plus miles on your Nighthawk. Its always touchy to post in an oil thread because you get 5 useless posts for everyone that actually matters.

Oil analysis puts a hold on many oil myths. Its the real deal and tells the true story. I have never sent off for one but I should. I know these air cooled engines get hot in the summer here. That is why I cut down on my change interval to try to be on the safe side.

Not 100 percent sure but I think I am going to run Shell Rotella 15w40 in both bikes. Just plain white bottle that is 13.00 or so at walmart. Im out of oil filters, need a windshield, need saddlebags, need tires for the Nighthawk, need a decent rainsuit and on and on.

Can anybody give me a loan?

[kDiqq_imp]

I've got about 3k miles on my Amsoil 10w-30 (prescribed specifically for Hondas, they even put a little Goldwing on the front lol) and I figure I should put my money where my mouth is. Sending oil to Blackstone next week to UOA. I should have close to 3500 miles on that oil by then. I get the bottom end rattles when it's cold. Sounds AWESOME when warm though. Very smooth.

[HikerToo_imp]

I would assume oil analysis can tell you the condition of the oil, can it predict or notify of excessive engine wear, say being caused by too thick of an oil during the first 30 seconds of a cold weather startup?

[kDiqq_imp]

Yes. Within reason... When wear happens, it will deposit metals as it's removed from the rubbing surfaces. So, let's say during startup you dont get enough pressure to the crank. Your UOA will show excessive brass deposits. Boom, worn bearing. You just have to infer a little bit.

But the rumor around here about 'too thick' oil not getting to the pan quick enough is total BS. And, I can use reason to explain it. The oil diagram in the service manual shows that after the oil pump picks up the oil, the oil goes through a bias valve (to go to two different places) and then hits a relief valve. AFTER the relief valve, it hits the oil pressure sensor. Heres the critical part of the story. If the oil does not return to the pan quick enough or TINY bubbles start to form at the sump, the pump will cavitate and pressure will drop. When the pressure falls, red oil light comes on. Watch when you start your bike, that pressure switch takes a split second to turn off. But it's not immediate because oil is not yet past the pump. If that red oil light is off, your bike is having NO oil starvation problems and PER HONDA ENGINEERING your oil pressure is sufficient. Pressure is half the game though. The other half is wear properties. Shear stability, kinematic viscosity, high temp/high shear viscosity, and additives. The oil I use, per ASTM specifications, dramatically outperforms the Honda oil. It will provide better protection in high heat conditions than Honda oils.

The bleeding question though is, why do all other oils cause the rattling noise when the Honda oil does not? I have no idea. My guess is that the Honda oil is thinner than advertised. BUT! Amsoil does not cause the rattle until the bike has warmed up just a little bit, and then it goes away after a moment. So the Honda oils weight is (I'm guessing) thinner than what the Amsoil runs at during that period. It is no cause for alarm for me because I have traced the noise to the very bottom of the pan, well below where crank extends and I can hear the noise in contact with the pan itself. If I had to speculate, the pickup is touching an internal baffle. But I've never pulled the pan, so I don't know. Again, no cause for alarm to be but a UOA will tell the WHOLE truth. I've been wrong before and I'm not afraid to be wrong again.

Now, to iron out some other points...

Honda will not void your warranty due to another brand oil. They WILL void your warranty if you're using any oil (and they can tell) that does NOT comply with all the same specification as the Honda oil. Those of you using Rotella, make sure its a JASO MA-2 oil with the same API two letter designations. Rotella is an awesome oil, but I've never looking for those designations so I'm not sure if it meets what Honda calls for. Those of you using Amsoil, it exceeds all compliance Honda calls for.

Lastly, my favorite question, "Why do you think you know more than Honda engineers?". To be put frankly, I don't. But, I too am an engineer and I've studied fluid dynamics for a few years. And the biggest lesson I've learned is that I am wrong sometimes. My teams of engineers have be collectively wrong. It happens. Are Honda engineers wrong? Probably not, but as long as the oil is just marginally acceptable, they can prescribe a short service interval and it makes no difference. BUT!! when you use a Honda oil, everything comes full circle. Even if you buy a used Honda, you've got to go give money to the Honda dealership to get the Honda oil. Since Honda produces the oil in house, they don't pay Mobil or Castrol or anyone else for any oil like GM does with Mobil. It maximizes profit in service.

Again, using the Honda oil, Amsoil, Mobil, Royal Purple, or any other marginally reputable brand will be TOTALLY FINE if you stay on REGULAR INTERVALS and continue to use good filters. But, if you're like me and want protection that goes above and beyond, don't use Honda oil as it is not the best brand available. Sorry for the wall of text! I actually enjoy oil discussions!! In a way, everyone is right

[xNE0x_imp]

I take it that I won't be getting an answer to my question. Oh well, if any kind soul out there is running mobil 1 racing 4t 10w40 please pm me.

Thank you.

[Ack-CB11_imp]

The JASO MA2 oil has less ZDDP in it for catalytic converter safety compared to the MA rated oil.
After trying multiple brands and weights, I ended up with Redline 10w30. It's JASO MA because of the extra high levels of ZDDP. Never got that cold knocking with it either.

[NightRider_imp]

Quote:Since Honda produces the oil in house, ...
I did not know that. I thought maybe they bought it from some oil company and branded it.

So, if they don't just buy it and feel the need to make it then I guess it is special. Like my CB1100. Special oil. Special bike. I like that. I'll keep both.

[ClassicVW_imp]

If they do make it, then that's the definitive reason to use it.
They can formulate it and tweak it to whatever is best for their engines.