Posts: 3,872
Threads: 186
Likes Received: 0 in 0 posts
Likes Given: 0
Joined: Dec 2013
(04-15-2016, 01:48 AM)Ulvetanna_imp Wrote: (04-14-2016, 03:23 PM)pdedse_imp Wrote: All this info is appreciated...one thing I would like to understand: what are some of the factors that make one bike need a valve check at 8k, another at 12k and even more? Valve train design, screw/locknut need it a lot more often.
Air-cooling vs. liquid cooling, air-cooled engines need it more often.
Materials. Better materials such as cam surfacing and valve/valve seat materials can go a lot longer with less wear. Yamaha's Genesis design does not require a check until 26,600 miles. Most bikes seem to put the first check at 15,000 miles.
One thing to keep in mind also regard air-cooled engines especially are emissions regulations.
Valve timing is critical to a clean-running engine and as the valves wear, the engine may create more emissions than it should. Air-cooled engines are harder to design to meet current emissions standards which is one of the reasons they call for a very frequent check compared to liquid-cooled engines. This is something that is part of the specifications agreed upon between the OEM and EPA for emissions control compliance. It may well be that the CB1100 could reliably run 15,000 miles without any need for adjustment, with no risk of mechanical failure. But to ensure the engine is running cleanly, the interval is shorter, as being out of spec only 0.001" does make a measurable difference in tailpipe emissions.
One interesting requirement on this bike is that the cam chain tensioner be fully unloaded while checking valve clearance. Most bikes don't require this step and in fact it is the first bike I've owned that states this step in the service manual.
I called the service manager of my local Honda dealer, a guy who I trust and who is very knowledgeable about the deeper technological details of service and maintenance.
He said there are some bikes that Honda wants this step done for; it allows for a very precise adjustment of the valve train.
One thing I noticed right off when I first started the bike after finishing the check is that it was just as quiet as when it was new. Evidently, by completely unloading the tensioner and then letting it self-adjust, the cam chain was tightened a bit more. Also noticed the bike definitely seemed to run more crisply and strongly than before; that bit of slack might have retarded the cam timing just enough to take the "lively" nature out of the engine but it is certainly back now.
Adjusting the balancer also had a big effect on driveline lash, it really removed 80-90 percent of the lash and made throttle control much, much smoother during on-off transitions.
This is something to check for anyone feeling that driveline lash is excessive.
I was puzzled by this requirement as well. I still don't follow how unloading the tensioner would make checking clearance more accurate but then, I'm not an engineer and will take their word on it. Thanks also for posting this, very informative.
Was there much trouble with adjusting the balance shaft? It was a fairly simple thing to do on the ST1300.
Posts: 3,066
Threads: 119
Likes Received: 780 in 328 posts
Likes Given: 782
Joined: Apr 2025
Thanks Ulvetanna for the reply...I wanted to buy a '13 cb1100 brand new several years ago, but the timing and price just didn't line up. Three months ago, they did. Now, 3 years later from when I first saw the CB1100, owners are getting to know this bike well because of the maintenance items that come up and your experiences are very helpful for others.
Posts: 1,527
Threads: 78
Likes Received: 0 in 0 posts
Likes Given: 0
Joined: Mar 2016
(04-15-2016, 02:17 AM)redbirds_imp Wrote: (04-15-2016, 01:48 AM)Ulvetanna_imp Wrote: (04-14-2016, 03:23 PM)pdedse_imp Wrote: All this info is appreciated...one thing I would like to understand: what are some of the factors that make one bike need a valve check at 8k, another at 12k and even more? Valve train design, screw/locknut need it a lot more often.
Air-cooling vs. liquid cooling, air-cooled engines need it more often.
Materials. Better materials such as cam surfacing and valve/valve seat materials can go a lot longer with less wear. Yamaha's Genesis design does not require a check until 26,600 miles. Most bikes seem to put the first check at 15,000 miles.
One thing to keep in mind also regard air-cooled engines especially are emissions regulations.
Valve timing is critical to a clean-running engine and as the valves wear, the engine may create more emissions than it should. Air-cooled engines are harder to design to meet current emissions standards which is one of the reasons they call for a very frequent check compared to liquid-cooled engines. This is something that is part of the specifications agreed upon between the OEM and EPA for emissions control compliance. It may well be that the CB1100 could reliably run 15,000 miles without any need for adjustment, with no risk of mechanical failure. But to ensure the engine is running cleanly, the interval is shorter, as being out of spec only 0.001" does make a measurable difference in tailpipe emissions.
One interesting requirement on this bike is that the cam chain tensioner be fully unloaded while checking valve clearance. Most bikes don't require this step and in fact it is the first bike I've owned that states this step in the service manual.
I called the service manager of my local Honda dealer, a guy who I trust and who is very knowledgeable about the deeper technological details of service and maintenance.
He said there are some bikes that Honda wants this step done for; it allows for a very precise adjustment of the valve train.
One thing I noticed right off when I first started the bike after finishing the check is that it was just as quiet as when it was new. Evidently, by completely unloading the tensioner and then letting it self-adjust, the cam chain was tightened a bit more. Also noticed the bike definitely seemed to run more crisply and strongly than before; that bit of slack might have retarded the cam timing just enough to take the "lively" nature out of the engine but it is certainly back now.
Adjusting the balancer also had a big effect on driveline lash, it really removed 80-90 percent of the lash and made throttle control much, much smoother during on-off transitions.
This is something to check for anyone feeling that driveline lash is excessive.
I was puzzled by this requirement as well. I still don't follow how unloading the tensioner would make checking clearance more accurate but then, I'm not an engineer and will take their word on it. Thanks also for posting this, very informative.
Was there much trouble with adjusting the balance shaft? It was a fairly simple thing to do on the ST1300.
I was puzzled by this requirement as well. I still don't follow how unloading the tensioner would make checking clearance more accurate but then, I'm not an engineer and will take their word on it. Thanks also for posting this, very informative.
Was there much trouble with adjusting the balance shaft? It was a fairly simple thing to do on the ST1300. Balance shaft is very easy to adjust, the service manual specifies how it's done. Just loosen the clamp bolt and use a screwdriver to crank it until all the slack is taken up, then back it off a certain amount. There are index lines. Mine was very loose, took over a half-turn before the slack was out. I had no clue that this would affect driveline lash so much. One forum member mentioned his bike seemed to shift a lot better after adjustment of this feature. 
Posts: 98
Threads: 4
Likes Received: 0 in 0 posts
Likes Given: 0
Joined: Dec 2016
this is from the engineers' site:
we conducted test after test, changing the valve seat materials as many times as needed to get it right. The materials we arrived at with the right heat- and friction-resistance characteristics are the finest materials used in any production bike.
so I really doubt those valves really needed adjusting. sounds more like they had a crappy mechanic, or even just a tech doing the work. since other work they did was not to your liking, I'd say that supports that too.
why can't I get the quote thing to work?
Posts: 8,035
Threads: 21
Likes Received: 186 in 108 posts
Likes Given: 136
Joined: Apr 2025
(03-31-2017, 01:44 AM)jimgl353_imp Wrote: this is from the engineers' site:
we conducted test after test, changing the valve seat materials as many times as needed to get it right. The materials we arrived at with the right heat- and friction-resistance characteristics are the finest materials used in any production bike.
so I really doubt those valves really needed adjusting. sounds more like they had a crappy mechanic, or even just a tech doing the work. since other work they did was not to your liking, I'd say that supports that too.
why can't I get the quote thing to work?
You have to have whatever you quote between the quote line at the beginning and the quote in brackets at the end. If you do a reply to someones post, you can see what I'm talking about as I'm not too sure I explained it very well. 
Posts: 98
Threads: 4
Likes Received: 0 in 0 posts
Likes Given: 0
Joined: Dec 2016
(07-13-2015, 05:36 PM)Pterodactyl_imp Wrote: At 12000kms mine were adjusted by the dealer. I was charged for the labour and shims. After the service I was unhappy with another aspect of the work that was done and, being preoccupied with that, it didn't occur to me to ask for details of the valve adjustment so I can give no further detail. The cost of the service was enough to make me haul my tool box out of storage, build a work bench in my new home, and the bike hasn't been back to the dealer since. Incidentally my unhappiness with the service (I won't go into detail) was ameliorated by the dealer giving me a substantial discount on a set of winter gloves. It didn't get me back though.
Cheers
(07-14-2015, 04:49 PM)Kiwikevin_imp Wrote: (07-13-2015, 05:36 PM)Pterodactyl_imp Wrote: At 12000kms mine were adjusted by the dealer. I was charged for the labour and shims. After the service I was unhappy with another aspect of the work that was done and, being preoccupied with that, it didn't occur to me to ask for details of the valve adjustment so I can give no further detail. The cost of the service was enough to make me haul my tool box out of storage, build a work bench in my new home, and the bike hasn't been back to the dealer since. Incidentally my unhappiness with the service (I won't go into detail) was ameliorated by the dealer giving me a substantial discount on a set of winter gloves. It didn't get me back though.
Cheers
Sorry to hear of your experience. Yes that is the challenge isn't it? The dealer is supposed to be the "expert" and professional, so you do the right thing and take it to the dealer to get the 'best" attention. Unfortunately it can turn to custard so easily just from human error (genuine mistake) and just plain old complete lack of care and attention. Working in the automotive industry myself I see it every day. VERY frustrating! One you've lost a customer it's very hard to get them back.
Sorry to hear of your experience. Yes that is the challenge isn't it? The dealer is supposed to be the "expert" and professional, so you do the right thing and take it to the dealer to get the 'best" attention. Unfortunately it can turn to custard so easily just from human error (genuine mistake) and just plain old complete lack of care and attention. Working in the automotive industry myself I see it every day. VERY frustrating! One you've lost a customer it's very hard to get them back.
(03-31-2017, 01:52 AM)Lord Popgun_imp Wrote: (03-31-2017, 01:44 AM)jimgl353_imp Wrote: this is from the engineers' site:
we conducted test after test, changing the valve seat materials as many times as needed to get it right. The materials we arrived at with the right heat- and friction-resistance characteristics are the finest materials used in any production bike.
so I really doubt those valves really needed adjusting. sounds more like they had a crappy mechanic, or even just a tech doing the work. since other work they did was not to your liking, I'd say that supports that too.
why can't I get the quote thing to work?
You have to have whatever you quote between the quote line at the beginning and the quote in brackets at the end. If you do a reply to someones post, you can see what I'm talking about as I'm not too sure I explained it very well.
You have to have whatever you quote between the quote line at the beginning and the quote in brackets at the end. If you do a reply to someones post, you can see what I'm talking about as I'm not too sure I explained it very well.
I seem to either quote too much or nothing at all... what is the ""+ button supposed to do?
Posts: 23,466
Threads: 697
Likes Received: 572 in 258 posts
Likes Given: 753
Joined: Apr 2025
""+ ..... allows you to quote or respond to multiple people in one post.
"" reply ...... quotes or responds to one person
Posts: 8,035
Threads: 21
Likes Received: 186 in 108 posts
Likes Given: 136
Joined: Apr 2025
I've never used the + or "" like Ferret says, but you can just delete lines between the /quote in brackets at the end and the quote stuff in brackets at the beginning. Like I did to your post in my reply above.
Posts: 133
Threads: 21
Likes Received: 0 in 0 posts
Likes Given: 0
Joined: Jun 2015
I just got my DLX back yesterday from the shop and thought I'd report in on this thread. The bike was approaching 16,000 miles, and I never got the first valve inspection done, so I figured it was time. It turned out that the valves are all beautifully in spec, not a single concern. The shop manager says they've done several CB1100's, some with many more miles than mine, and has yet to find one needing adjustment. He reckoned I could go another 16k or even 24k before coming back for another, and it would likely still be in spec. Sounds good to me, and you gotta love a shop manager who doesn't want you to be wasting your money.
Posts: 144
Threads: 5
Likes Received: 0 in 0 posts
Likes Given: 0
Joined: Aug 2016
(03-31-2017, 05:34 AM)kvdv_imp Wrote: I just got my DLX back yesterday from the shop and thought I'd report in on this thread. The bike was approaching 16,000 miles, and I never got the first valve inspection done, so I figured it was time. It turned out that the valves are all beautifully in spec, not a single concern. The shop manager says they've done several CB1100's, some with many more miles than mine, and has yet to find one needing adjustment. He reckoned I could go another 16k or even 24k before coming back for another, and it would likely still be in spec. Sounds good to me, and you gotta love a shop manager who doesn't want you to be wasting your money.
Very good information. Thanks...
|
