Honda WN7

[Gone in 60]

well if that 217 is like most EV claims, it's if you ride around in the city at 25-35 mph. Get out on the open road and it sucks it down to between 1/2 and 2/3 of that.

Yeah, I imagine so. The rep claimed that the 217 number was bested by a test rider who only stopped because the weather was getting bad... 

Wonder what it would do on my commute, at 80mph sustained for an hour.

[Cormanus]

Ferret, I'm curious: would the WN7 get you around your average daily ride?

[the Ferret]

Yes on most days it would. Some days not.

If Honda would price is under $10K I'd have a serious look, but what are the chances of that happening?

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well if that 217 is like most EV claims, it's if you ride around in the city at 25-35 mph. Get out on the open road and it sucks it down to between 1/2 and 2/3 of that.

Yeah, I imagine so. The rep claimed that the 217 number was bested by a test rider who only stopped because the weather was getting bad... 

Wonder what it would do on my commute, at 80mph sustained for an hour.

Leave you standing by the side of the road

[peterbaron]

No go for an electric bike like this from my side!!

[Cormanus]

Yes on most days it would. Some days not.

If Honda would price is under $10K I'd have a serious look, but what are the chances of that happening?

If it'd get around your loops it would be a great bike for a bloke like you who rides a modest distance every day. Or for a rider with a short commute. I could use an electric bike on a good deal of the riding I'm doing at the moment which is short distances. It would just not be any use for the sort of day or multi-day rides I do. It'd add days to each trip while I waited for the thing to charge!

The price'll be interesting; probably unlikely to be under $10K though.

[the Ferret]

Here's another thing Cormanus. The batteries in these EV bikes have life cycles of charges. So, if you charge it, that's one life cycle. Ride it a day bring it home and charge it so you can ride it the next day, that's a life cycle. Ride 7 days a week having charged the battery overnight every time that's 7 life cycles. So, if you are a daily rider, ride every day, recharge the battery every night you are seriously wearing out the battery. Zero says the battery is good for 1380 charge cycles. 1380 charge cycles divided by 365 days in a year equals 3.7 years before you will be due to buy a new $4000 battery. If you ride once or twice a week, it wouldn't be so bad, but for a daily rider it would be much cheaper to buy gasoline. $4000 in my NC at $3.50 a gallon (btw it's under $3 a gallon here now and has been all year) would buy 1143 gallons of gas and go over 80,000 miles @ 70 mpg (conservative.... I average between 74 and 81 mpg)

Then factor in the price of the bike. A Zero S today is about $20 grand. An NC 750 is $9500 or half the price of the electric.

I consider electric motorcycles rich guys toys.

[misterprofessionality]

Its always been a sad fact that the motorcycle industry (at least in North America) completely ignores daily riders like us. The sad thing is these bikes could be engineered to produce longer life cycles and better range and reliability to cater to daily riders, but the market research tells them we don't exist. Riding the bike once a week is exactly what they calculated for. Then there's profitability. You have to remember these bikes, much like their car counterparts, are being marketed and sold more like cell phones than vehicles. Before long the vehicle market will resemble the consumer electronics market much more closely. Products designed to fail with shorter and shorter lifespans, but the consumer isn't expected to care about that because you don't buy your cell phone anymore, you just **get** one with your service subscription plan. And it gets replaced every so often. Your old one goes in the trash.

[Lunchbag]

... marketing the upcoming Verge electric motorcycle - https://www.vergemotorcycles.com/

They're claiming a 217 mile range, but at a cost of $35k to purchase. Not something I'd consider, but it is very unique...

Practical considerations aside, the Verge motorcycle is fascinating for the audacity of the design.  The advantage of using a "hubmotor" to open up more volume for batteries is pretty clear.  I put "hubmotor" in quotes because this one is a sort of "hubless hubmotor."    Focusing the motor mass as far out on the radius as possible makes sense.  The bearings required to do this must be impressive.  I would love to see the disassembled motor, wheel, and bearings, or a cutaway drawing.

The problem of unsprung mass is a valid concern for hubmotor designs generally.  I think the concern is often expressed in terms of the effects on handling.  But I think a test ride over uneven pavement could answer that question pretty quickly.  What I'm more worried about is the potential long-term effects of impact loads if it is ridden often on bumpy pavement.  There must be some really precise tolerances/clearances in that motor, so I hope they have tested extensively in a realistic environment to ensure they hold up.

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On the practical side, there are not many good arguments for electric motorcycles.  When I lived in northern CA I had a couple co-workers who commuted on Zero motorcycles, but I found motorcycle commuting unenjoyable.  Lane-splitting helps, but heavy traffic sucked the joy out of motorcycling for me, so I found it was not worth the risk.  Maybe for a nicer commute (less traffic) a used Zero would make sense.  When I lived in FL I did commute quite often on the Royal E-field.

For electric autos, there are some good arguments.  The economical approach is to buy a used EV worth less than half its original price, but with most of its range (life) still remaining.  It's not hard to do.  I did this first with a 2013 Leaf and I put well over 130,000 miles on it, essentially maintenance-free.  I recently bought a 2017 Bolt with only 20,000 miles on the battery (replaced under warranty/recall).  It gets almost 300 miles range in summer and 200 miles in winter, and I bought it for under $13k USD.

I hope to get many more miles on the Bolt than I did on the Leaf.  Every mile on the Bolt saves a mile on my more expensive and maintenance-intensive gas vehicles.  An EV as a second or third car makes a lot more sense than an EV as an only car.  They are not the best x-country vehicles, but the Bolt can probably handle well over 95% of my driving needs which are short and medium length trips.  Oh, and access to the Tesla network with a $200 adapter is a nice option, just in case I want to go further.

One final thought: Even if the cycle life of the battery is advertised as 1000 cycles or 2000, etc. that usually means when the battery is down to ~80% original capacity.  But you can use the car or motorcycle well beyond that point, especially if it has decent range to begin with.  When my Bolt is down to 80% original capacity (range) I will still be able to do almost all my driving with it.

[Cormanus]

I consider electric motorcycles rich guys toys.

The Zero is certainly a rich man's toy.

[Gone in 60]

Rich man's toy? The Verge is only 35 grand.
Shut up and take my money.

Actually, now that they have a few demo Verge bikes at the Bike Shed, I will try to swing a test ride some time soon when I'm in the area for the museum. The $30k LiveWire One was a nice ride. Yeah, It's on clearance right now for around $16k, but so what...