2017 CB1100 EX First Ride Review

[emptysea]

Ferret, your comments are on point. Generally, while I would never describe my technique as "smooth", I am smoother through corners about which I am familiar. Besides being a very skilled rider, I think that physics-teacher was super-smooth and super-quick through the turns in Arkansas in part because of his familiarity with the area (Do not mistake this last comment as diminishing his pure riding skill). It's hard for me, at least so far, to find that right entry speed on unfamiliar corners. I try to trail-brake, too, I think my ham-handed attempts at this sometimes make me less than smooth.

[Ulvetanna_imp]

Andrew Trevitt, formerly of Sport Rider, and a great tech geek (also massively fast Canadian road racer at one point in his career) [url=https://www.sportrider.com/data-power]gives some good info on all this data stuff.

[alprider]

Front suspension on the 2017 CB1100 is possibly better. Rear, doubtful, but good enough. Call it even. Kawi's is adjustable.

Not the suspension, but the chassis and weight, quick response of the engine, very low gearing, and so on. The Kawasaki is going to be the quicker, faster bike every time.

The Honda will be the more stable and forgiving, every time.

Guth, I'm sure that the previous generation CBs also had excellent throttle response. From Day One, testers have noted the CB's smooth, glitch-free fueling. With the chain properly adjusted, I'm guessing your '13 also exhibits very little drive lash. Overall, I can easily picture your experiences on your CB mirroring mine, although I have no doubt that my suspension is plusher, and the addition of the sixth gear has to be a benefit.

alprider, you just described one circumstance in which I would fully expect to drag something on my CB: tight, uphill, off-camber, bumpy switchbacks that practically turn back on themselves. It's very easy to drag parts on those sorts of 1st-gear switchbacks when riding a long-wheelbase, low-slung bike.

mickey, you know that response post I made in MCD's Z900RS thread, in which I summed up the differences between the CB and Z900RS? I'm not so sure now that I would automatically give the handling and braking nods to the Z900RS. If the Kawi's suspension isn't as plush as the CB's and its fueling more glitchy, I can see the 900RS's handling bearing the brunt of those issues. In terms of the brakes, I don't see where the CB's could be any better, so I'm not willing to just hand the decision there to the Kawi, radial-mounted calipers notwithstanding. Also, while the CB does buzz a bit between 3,500 and 4,900, the Kawi supposedly suffers from fairly noticeable buzzing higher up on the tach, so perhaps it's no smoother overall than the CB.

I'm certain the Kawi accelerates harder and is more flickable. It weighs ninety fewer lbs and makes about ten more horsepower. At this point, however, those are the only nods I'm wiling to give the Kawi over the CB, unless and until I ride one and can confirm that it handles and brakes better than the Honda, in addition to being smoother.

I have my doubts.

Ulvetanna Wrote:Guth Wrote:I've never been pitched from my seat or had the bike upset in ways that Ulvetanna has mentioned for that matter.
Just to be clear for the record, it was VLJ who described those things, and I commented on them.
Nope, that wasn't me. Pitched From The Seat Guy is ohiorider, who complained that he finally gave up on his older CB, after never coming to terms with it. He's also The Front Suspension Destroys My Wrists Guy.

Just to be clear for the record, it was VLJ who described those things, and I commented on them.
Nope, that wasn't me. Pitched From The Seat Guy is ohiorider, who complained that he finally gave up on his older CB, after never coming to terms with it. He's also The Front Suspension Destroys My Wrists Guy.
I'm looking for clarity; you simply raised those issues as a discussion point in your earlier post; Guth briefly mentioned them, after I repeated them, in a way that could possibly suggest I was saying those were problems with a particular bike.

So we want to be clear, those are general issues to be considered when designing suspension and may or may not be a problem with any particular bike or rider. That was the context all along.

Guth, you can also guess that Lorenzo and Pedrosa brake and snap the throttle open a thousand times more forcefully than mickey does, or than anyone does on the street. Also, their bikes have the world's best safety nannies, allowing those guys to whack the throttle open and closed, snap off four downshifts, and slam on the brakes in a manner that would make most people highside their trusty streetbikes into oblivion.

At the level of aggression with which MotoGP guys ride, all such analogies and comparisons to street riding are moot. It's not even apples to asparagus.

Untrue. None of those guys snap the throttle on or off. If one watches the telemetry graph as any of those riders exit a turn, they will see the bar display smoothly increase for both throttle opening or brake pressure.

I have reviewed quite a few data acquisition charts from telemetry-equipped bikes and these control inputs happen very smoothly. Mid-turn at a 60+ degree lean angle, you can't even breathe, hardly, almost anything will cause the bike to lose traction. And the traction control on those bikes at that level is not anything like what one would find on even a production superbike, like my ZX-10R.

At the least level of intervention it will let the front wheel loft a few inches when it comes into the power, and will allow just a little bit of rear wheel spin.

At the race level, on huge slicks with massive amounts of traction, run at around 21 psi for the rear tire. Even less sometimes. The traction control is nowhere near as invasive as on a street superbike; how y'all think Marquez and company are leaving those long rear wheel black marks? That's how those guys steer, with some wheel spin. Sometimes you can see it very obviously, but most of the time you can't. The rear tire is just starting to break away, and the rider does have some control, quite a lot, actually.

There is no safety nanny involved with the brakes on a MotoGP bike or WSBK bike, or any racebike. Racebikes don't have ABS nor anything to prevent wheel lockup. That's why those guys get paid the big Euros.

Those riders go as fast as they do in the corners because they have the slowest hands. Smooth, measured, calculated, practiced. In fact I would suggest that the Ferret's throttle hand and brake input are VERY similar to those of the best racers.

How the heck could he have survived riding almost every day of the year on icy, wet, dirty roads? Seriously. Smooth is what gets you home.

I rode my ZX-10R on ice on one ride, no ABS, but it was interesting to notice how the TC worked really well. Of course one cannot lean a bike really at all on ice. One gets used to how the TC works on clean, dry pavement and it is fun to notice it working. Only at extremes do the cylinders start to cut, otherwise it's not even noticeable, it's all software based on comparative wheel speeds and lean angle.

its better !
if you put the old and new side by side you observe that the rear suspension has too a other look...not only the forc is new


or, not only the saddle is somehow harder....smile

[the Ferret]

Physics Teacher (Rick) was an incredibly talented rider, never looking like he was in a hurry or even trying hard, yet constantly stretching out a lead on us, forcing us to play catch up, or get left behind.

[emptysea]

Physics Teacher (Rick) was an incredibly talented rider, never looking like he was in a hurry or even trying hard, yet constantly stretching out a lead on us, forcing us to play catch up, or get left behind.

I don't even remember him hitting his brakes before a turn. Of course, maybe he did so and we were just so far behind that we couldn't see his light.

[the Ferret]

Lol same complaint offroad had about me following me in Colorado. The right technique of going deep on the outside of the turn and looking what needs to be done negates a lot of going in too shallow or too much in the center of the lane, and braking before you realize you don't really need to. All that was really needed was a slight let off of the gas and a little more lean mid turn, then a slight roll on the throttle coming out.

[VLJ_imp]

Ulvetanna Wrote:Van Wrote:Guth, you can also guess that Lorenzo and Pedrosa brake and snap the throttle open a thousand times more forcefully than mickey does, or than anyone does on the street. Also, their bikes have the world's best safety nannies, allowing those guys to whack the throttle open and closed, snap off four downshifts, and slam on the brakes in a manner that would make most people highside their trusty streetbikes into oblivion.

At the level of aggression with which MotoGP guys ride, all such analogies and comparisons to street riding are moot. It's not even apples to asparagus.
Untrue. None of those guys snap the throttle on or off. If one watches the telemetry graph as any of those riders exit a turn, they will see the bar display smoothly increase for both throttle opening or brake pressure.
Nope. They absolutely snap the throttle open all the way to the stop, in certain circumstances. It's all relative, and some MotoGP riders are certainly smoother than others, but compared to mickey's throttle applications all MotoGP guys are wildly aggressive with every one of their inputs: braking, shifting their bodies, gear shifts, opening and closing the throttle.

They have to be. There is no way to race at 200 mph while easing away on corner exits, or gently braking at the end of a long straight. Yes, they have to be judicious with the throttle mid-corner, but the electronic safety nannies allow them the sort of freedom to get hard on the gas that guys like KR, Lawson, and Doohan who rode fire-breathing 500cc two-strokes could only dream about. In fact, the nannies have become so intrusive that guys like Hayden and Rossi longed for their removal, even from the four-strokes. Anyone can ride them now, and that's not how it was meant to be at the highest level of Grand Prix racing.

A perfect example of this was when Dani Pedrosa had his violent highside the moment Marc Marquez ran into him from behind, severing his traction control cable. No traction control, 260 rwhp, and a big handful of throttle?

"To the moon, Alice!"

[Guth_imp]

My guess is that some of these guys are just far more capable of modulating their inputs than normal folks like you are I are able to imagine.

[LongRanger_imp]

VLJ, I heartily echo the "great review" sentiment of those preceding me. Nice job. Really glad you like the bike. Quick question -- what tires did it come with?

[VLJ_imp]

Guth, while MotoGP riders obviously occupy a different planet than we do, they also have a bazillion pre-set traction-control and engine-mapping parameters built into their bikes' ECUs, which are monitored in real time by the tech crew, who alert the rider via dashboard messages to any necessary changes he needs to make, which can then be made by the rider by switching maps with the press of a bar-mounted thumb-controller.

Despite ever increasing power numbers, notice the drastic reduction in recent seasons of highsides in the dry, compared to the Good Old Days. The days of Garry McCoy-style magical throttle hands to manage slides and prevent highsides in Grand Prix racing may not be completely behind us, but they're drawing ever nearer to a close.

LongRanger, my bike has Dunlop D205 Sportmax Touring radials. I know nothing about them, or any other 18" tires. Until you asked and I went out and checked, I'd never heard of them.

That reminds me...

I asked, and my dealer's service department had no answer for me regarding two basic questions I have about this bike. One, do those spokes require any maintenance, the way spokes on motocross bikes do? The owner's manual includes absolutely nothing about the wheels, other than directions on how to remove them. There's no mention whatsoever of the spokes. Two, can I switch to synthetic oil at the 600-mile service, or do I need to wait until the 4K oil change?

Also, were you guys aware that the owner's manual for the '17 specifies 12,000 miles for the valve-adjustment interval, rather than the 8,000 miles it's always been for every other model year?