let's argue about obsolete old motorcycles

[misterprofessionality]

Kawasaki KDX200. Two stroke that's easy and relatively inexpensive to work on. They're an absolute blast to ride. There's nothing quite like the power delivery of 2 smoker. They're a bit hard to find, because people hang on to them for a long time. If you're patient, you'll find one.

Edit: Just saw that you can't get to the dirt. Well, that sucks. So maybe a motard will work...

sadly, the busybodies in my subdivision would have a fit if i went tear-assing around everybody's yard. a Dirt bike does have a truly separate use from my CB, and a built in excuse to own an extra bike, but sadly i'll never get to use it. it's a fools errand.

Well Mr. P, I know you have 6 cylinders on your mind, but I will humbly and respectfully submit the Evo-powered Harley-Davidson from 1985 - 2000. Not as collectible or as expensive as the previous Shovel, Pan and Knuckle bikes, but rideable, reliable and entertaining with their quirks and foibles. The Evo was used in the rubber mount FLH dressers, rubber mount FXRs and later FXDs, and Softail models, so you have a variety of riding styles to choose from.

Your challenge will be to find one is stock condition, instead of one modified by someone who evidently was smarter than the H-D engineers. And ironically goaded on by Harley-Davidson's own Parts and Accessories catalog!

you know something? i could get behind that. I've owned low cruisers so I know an old harley is a very different machine and a very different experience compared to my CB. More than that, an old harley is going to need a lot of care, and thus gives me an excuse to work on it. what's the lightest, most "nimble" model from that era you can think of? i know Harley Davidson isn't known for making nimble bikes, but you get my meaning. The big baggers are more of a pain to ride than anything else.

Lay down and take a nap until the feeling goes away. You really don't want 6 carbs in your fleet - even if, maybe especially because; they are on one bike.

As the former owner of a 1983 Goldwing, buddy, I don't even want 4 carbs. i'm traumatized by carbs. If i'm going to learn anything, though I need to get over that.

MrP, there’s a whole symposium in this proposition. Two quick thoughts though:

First, if you really don’t know much about working on bikes why would you start learning on something as hideously complicated as a 6-cylinder? Go with something with one or two cylinders and, when you nail it, move up.

Secondly, why would you risk trashing something as exquisite as a CBX?

Just sayin’.

well, in the CB, I already have my permanent machine. It will serve my needs for, presumably, decades. That said, I'm just really really trying to avoid the rat race of endlessly buying and selling bikes. I don't want to do that. Ideally, this second bike would be the last bike i ever purchase. I'm really a BIFL guy.

As for the CBX, the idea was that such an exquisite masterpiece would motivate me to turn to and put out all my strength of arm and heart and brain and "make the Mary Ellen Carter rise again," so to speak. it's such a beautiful thing. I think i would focus all my considerable potential on *not* trashing it. Also, it's kind of the "if you can dodge a wrench..." principle. If i can give life to a CBX there's nothing i can't fix.

not saying that's a smart plan, it's just the excuse I came up with in my head.

you know something? i could get behind that. I've owned low cruisers so I know an old harley is a very different machine and a very different experience compared to my CB. More than that, an old harley is going to need a lot of care, and thus gives me an excuse to work on it. what's the lightest, most "nimble" model from that era you can think of? i know Harley Davidson isn't known for making nimble bikes, but you get my meaning. The big baggers are more of a pain to ride than anything else.
You want something you can ride a little bit too, no? I would suggest any post 1994 Evolution powered bike. I say post '94 as that is when Harley's metallurgy technology finally reached the point where they for the most part eliminated the infamous Harley oil leak by properly mating metals and alloys together at seams allowing for the expansion/contraction of heating/cooling metals. TLDR - they stopped leaking.

If it were me (and coincidentally it is as I am keeping an eye out for one) I would look for a late '90s/early '00s Sportster 1200 Sport or Roadster. They come stock with higher rear shocks, usually mid controls and a bit of a power advantage. They are easy to work on, parts are cheap and plentiful and they are getting to be dirt cheap to buy.

What's not to like?

https://www.cycletrader.com/listing/2002...5002308307

bingo

not that it matters if i find one now, i'm not buying anything at all until Buster is paid off. But this is what I was researching, how much will i spend, where will i get it, how available is it, ect ect.

edit: it's worth mentioning that i wouldn't call this issue "closed" per se, i just think this is good advice and a very good candidate. new and different suggestions are still welcome.

Lets narrow it down a bit.

When you say learn- do you actually mean 'learn' or just something to wrench on, and experience?

Example- an old 2-stroke such as an RZ350 is a cool fun play bike, but learning the top end of a 2-stroke is different and simpler than a 4-stroke. But you still have the same basic of a clutch, throttle, carb, wheels, chain, forks...

Are you ok with water cooled?

If you have your heart set on something exotic, while I'd never own a CBX I have owned a few VFR- a 700 and a 750. Both V-four engines with gear driven cams. They sound fantastic with a set of mufflers. The level of complexity increases though. You can get the same basic engine design in a cruiser- Honda Magna.

There are a ton of bikes with character and oddities back in the 80's from all the manufacturers.

yea, the first one. I need to learn with real world circumstances. I find that i do best with things like this when i go to task, solve a problem, and move on to the next real world problem. I can't tolerate something like that on my main bike, because i need to rely on it so much. I'm not entirely opposed to a 2-stroke, I would just have to be very careful to be sure it's actually going to teach me what I need to know about working on 4-stroke motorcycles.

i'm fine with water-cooled stuff...i suppose most modern stuff is water-cooled, so it's the right direction to be going in. i just don't hold out hope that there are going to be too many water-cooled bikes ancient enough to be cheap enough for me to purchase for this project, though i may be over-stressing that.

Exotic as a concept isn't really the key, I was more interested in the CBX because...well..it's a CBX, and they're a hell of a lot cheaper than i thought they were.

[Roper_imp]

What about a CB250 Nighthawk? They're like a small runabout version of our beloved CB1100. You can pick them up for less than $2K.

[rboe]

My XR650L is finally sorted (or I have deluded myself into thinking that). Too tall for most people, but of the three bikes that one is the one I gravitate towards more than the others. A bit over 300lbs she is a delight to ride around town. Only one carb! Still, one too many, but after discovering ultrasonic cleaners I'm good.

Having said all that and more else where let me direct your attention to Moto Guzzi. Around the early 2000's they started using EFI. Personally I think I would avoid those and get an older carb or a newer one with better EFI systems.

2003-04 the California/EV line had hydraulic valve lash adjusters - they had a small problem and had to do a recall but they were solid after than so why they went back to lock nut and screw is beyond me. Valve adjustments are very simple and with the heads out in the open they are stupid easy to work on.

Typically the owner keeps up with the fluids, adjusts the valves, chance tires and burns gas to keep rider and machine happy. Parts are very easy to find (except the Tupperware from older models).

They are as fast if not a bit faster than Harleys (talking similar generations here - newer models will smoke a Harley), like to rev with redlines in the 8K region (my Griso redlines at 8500 but will easily do 10K if the limiter didn't kick in). If you run below 3K you're lugging it.

they handle worlds better than a Harley, typically don't hold their value worth @#$%. But some older models are uber desirable and fetch stupid money. Finding a good dealer near you is almost impossible but there are a couple nationally that do very well and provide telephone support and parts. There are a couple good forums to keep you grounded.

If you like the simpler bikes, and ones that are not seen around every corner (save Seattle) Guzzi is your bike. Typically the Guzzi uniform is a beer gut and suspenders (red), many have beards.

Finally; Until the last 5-7 years, the best Guzzi was a used one as they typically came all sorted out. Factory fresh ones seemed to need more work. QC, while not up to Honda standards, is much better now. Once sorted going well over 200,000 miles is not unheard of.

[emptysea]

I have nothing to add to this thread, but kudos to the originator for the compelling and alluring title.

[riggies_imp]

Man, I’m all about the sportster idea. Keep an eye on Craigslist and you can stay under 3 grand. It’d also be a cool bike to ride around the streets of Charleston. Sportster are cool, I’ll always hold that line.

[Nortoon_imp]

Lets narrow it down a bit.

When you say learn- do you actually mean 'learn' or just something to wrench on, and experience?

Example- an old 2-stroke such as an RZ350 is a cool fun play bike, but learning the top end of a 2-stroke is different and simpler than a 4-stroke. But you still have the same basic of a clutch, throttle, carb, wheels, chain, forks...

Are you ok with water cooled?

If you have your heart set on something exotic, while I'd never own a CBX I have owned a few VFR- a 700 and a 750. Both V-four engines with gear driven cams. They sound fantastic with a set of mufflers. The level of complexity increases though. You can get the same basic engine design in a cruiser- Honda Magna.

There are a ton of bikes with character and oddities back in the 80's from all the manufacturers.

My Yamaha 350 R5 was the easiest motorcycle to work on I ever had. I could change the oil, clean and lube the chain, remove the carbon from the heads and piston tops, and add new plugs in a couple of hours. Never had to mess with the timing or worry about valves as there were none. At 10,000 miles I bought new baffles for the mufflers so it would have it normal top end of 103 MPH.
The 4-stroke motorcycles I enjoyed working on were my 1966 and 1971 BSA Lightnings. The 66 became a café racer and the 71 restored to original form except for the paint. The colour schemes for the 71s were awful, so mine was painted glossy black.

It helped to have imported the Shop Manual, Parts Manual, and BSA Shop Tools from Eddie Dow in Britain. Loved the feel and sound of those bikes. That is why the 2018 Royal Enfield 650cc Interceptor has caught my interest. Nut and bolt valve adjustment, instead of buckets and shims. Now that's simple Old School mechanics.

[misterprofessionality]

What about a CB250 Nighthawk? They're like a small runabout version of our beloved CB1100. You can pick them up for less than $2K.

i worry about having a mini cb11. why wouldn't i just take my cb11? i would feel sad if i get anything and it just sits in my garage and gets poked and prodded every now and again. perhaps if it were something I could use to teach my wife to ride, like a rebel 250, that could have a greal good use. she would need something super duper low and as light as possible, without being a moped.

My XR650L is finally sorted (or I have deluded myself into thinking that). Too tall for most people, but of the three bikes that one is the one I gravitate towards more than the others. A bit over 300lbs she is a delight to ride around town. Only one carb! Still, one too many, but after discovering ultrasonic cleaners I'm good.

Having said all that and more else where let me direct your attention to Moto Guzzi. Around the early 2000's they started using EFI. Personally I think I would avoid those and get an older carb or a newer one with better EFI systems.

2003-04 the California/EV line had hydraulic valve lash adjusters - they had a small problem and had to do a recall but they were solid after than so why they went back to lock nut and screw is beyond me. Valve adjustments are very simple and with the heads out in the open they are stupid easy to work on.

Typically the owner keeps up with the fluids, adjusts the valves, chance tires and burns gas to keep rider and machine happy. Parts are very easy to find (except the Tupperware from older models).

They are as fast if not a bit faster than Harleys (talking similar generations here - newer models will smoke a Harley), like to rev with redlines in the 8K region (my Griso redlines at 8500 but will easily do 10K if the limiter didn't kick in). If you run below 3K you're lugging it.

they handle worlds better than a Harley, typically don't hold their value worth @#$%. But some older models are uber desirable and fetch stupid money. Finding a good dealer near you is almost impossible but there are a couple nationally that do very well and provide telephone support and parts. There are a couple good forums to keep you grounded.

If you like the simpler bikes, and ones that are not seen around every corner (save Seattle) Guzzi is your bike. Typically the Guzzi uniform is a beer gut and suspenders (red), many have beards.

Finally; Until the last 5-7 years, the best Guzzi was a used one as they typically came all sorted out. Factory fresh ones seemed to need more work. QC, while not up to Honda standards, is much better now. Once sorted going well over 200,000 miles is not unheard of.

I like everything i'm reading here, though I would typically stick to my rule of "if it's from italy, do not buy it." then again, if it's from italy, chances are it will give me more opportunities to work on it and problem solve! so in this case, it is a nice outside-the-box idea.

Man, I’m all about the sportster idea. Keep an eye on Craigslist and you can stay under 3 grand. It’d also be a cool bike to ride around the streets of Charleston. Sportster are cool, I’ll always hold that line.

the one i linked you looks great. like it could easily be raised in the rear, lowered in the front, change the seat position a bit and you've got the kind of bike Harley should be making...

[SportsterDoc]

Kawasaki KDX200. Two stroke that's easy and relatively inexpensive to work on. They're an absolute blast to ride. There's nothing quite like the power delivery of 2 smoker. They're a bit hard to find, because people hang on to them for a long time. If you're patient, you'll find one.

Edit: Just saw that you can't get to the dirt. Well, that sucks. So maybe a motard will work...

sadly, the busybodies in my subdivision would have a fit if i went tear-assing around everybody's yard. a Dirt bike does have a truly separate use from my CB, and a built in excuse to own an extra bike, but sadly i'll never get to use it. it's a fools errand.

Well Mr. P, I know you have 6 cylinders on your mind, but I will humbly and respectfully submit the Evo-powered Harley-Davidson from 1985 - 2000. Not as collectible or as expensive as the previous Shovel, Pan and Knuckle bikes, but rideable, reliable and entertaining with their quirks and foibles. The Evo was used in the rubber mount FLH dressers, rubber mount FXRs and later FXDs, and Softail models, so you have a variety of riding styles to choose from.

Your challenge will be to find one is stock condition, instead of one modified by someone who evidently was smarter than the H-D engineers. And ironically goaded on by Harley-Davidson's own Parts and Accessories catalog!

you know something? i could get behind that. I've owned low cruisers so I know an old harley is a very different machine and a very different experience compared to my CB. More than that, an old harley is going to need a lot of care, and thus gives me an excuse to work on it. what's the lightest, most "nimble" model from that era you can think of? i know Harley Davidson isn't known for making nimble bikes, but you get my meaning. The big baggers are more of a pain to ride than anything else.

Lay down and take a nap until the feeling goes away. You really don't want 6 carbs in your fleet - even if, maybe especially because; they are on one bike.

As the former owner of a 1983 Goldwing, buddy, I don't even want 4 carbs. i'm traumatized by carbs. If i'm going to learn anything, though I need to get over that.

MrP, there’s a whole symposium in this proposition. Two quick thoughts though:

First, if you really don’t know much about working on bikes why would you start learning on something as hideously complicated as a 6-cylinder? Go with something with one or two cylinders and, when you nail it, move up.

Secondly, why would you risk trashing something as exquisite as a CBX?

Just sayin’.

well, in the CB, I already have my permanent machine. It will serve my needs for, presumably, decades. That said, I'm just really really trying to avoid the rat race of endlessly buying and selling bikes. I don't want to do that. Ideally, this second bike would be the last bike i ever purchase. I'm really a BIFL guy.

As for the CBX, the idea was that such an exquisite masterpiece would motivate me to turn to and put out all my strength of arm and heart and brain and "make the Mary Ellen Carter rise again," so to speak. it's such a beautiful thing. I think i would focus all my considerable potential on *not* trashing it. Also, it's kind of the "if you can dodge a wrench..." principle. If i can give life to a CBX there's nothing i can't fix.

not saying that's a smart plan, it's just the excuse I came up with in my head.

you know something? i could get behind that. I've owned low cruisers so I know an old harley is a very different machine and a very different experience compared to my CB. More than that, an old harley is going to need a lot of care, and thus gives me an excuse to work on it. what's the lightest, most "nimble" model from that era you can think of? i know Harley Davidson isn't known for making nimble bikes, but you get my meaning. The big baggers are more of a pain to ride than anything else.
You want something you can ride a little bit too, no? I would suggest any post 1994 Evolution powered bike. I say post '94 as that is when Harley's metallurgy technology finally reached the point where they for the most part eliminated the infamous Harley oil leak by properly mating metals and alloys together at seams allowing for the expansion/contraction of heating/cooling metals. TLDR - they stopped leaking.

If it were me (and coincidentally it is as I am keeping an eye out for one) I would look for a late '90s/early '00s Sportster 1200 Sport or Roadster. They come stock with higher rear shocks, usually mid controls and a bit of a power advantage. They are easy to work on, parts are cheap and plentiful and they are getting to be dirt cheap to buy.

What's not to like?

Rigid mount Sportster EVOs were 1986-2003
2004 up are rubber mounted motors and heavier.
2004-2006 were the last of the carburetors.

I would love to have a 2002 or 2003. VERY happy with the ones I did have.
The 1200 Sport was the ultimate.
The Roadster was the rubber mount (heavier) version of the Sport.

The main issue with late model (up through 2003) was nose cone mounted ignition modules, which were susceptible to heat failure. However, the last years of the sport had the module under the seat and only the cam sensor in the nose cone. The Sport ignition system also replaced the VOES (vacuum operated electrical switch) for timing advance with MAP sensor.

See post 72 in this thread for more info:

http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php...er+history

[Guth_imp]

I would add a few things for you to consider before making your decision (especially worth considering since you have the convenience of time on your side until your ready to make such a purchase).

Choose a bike that holds some interest to you. Sure the CBX flips your switch, but my guess is that you pick most any bike that you've ever thought to be kind of cool you'll end up enjoying the experience and wanting to do right by it.

Choose a bike that offers decent parts availability. Finding parts for certain bikes can be pretty difficult, especially if you're trying to locate parts that are in decent shape for a decent price. Although I suppose that if time or money is not of concern when it comes to tracking down parts you can ignore this one.

Check out the forums that are out there for any bike that you might be considering. Just imagine if our CB1100s were two, three, four or five decades older. The amount of information that we would be covering here would vary far more greatly. Once you've identified other bikes that are of interest to you have a look at the respective forums for those bikes to see what the community of support is like for each one. This can be an invaluable resource not only for the information it can provide but also for the assistance you might receive in tracking down parts, etc..

You might also consider thinking about what you could fix up and flip. If you end up having fun working on bikes (I know that I enjoy it) you could end up working on them only to sell them on to someone else who is looking for their first bike. Maybe a small twin wouldn't get you terribly excited, but once you've finished working on it, there might be someone else in your town that would be glad to get their hands on it. At that point, that person might learn to take on some basic maintenance tasks after you've done more of the heavy lifting so to speak, thus you've served to pass the torch on to the next generation — one that is sorely in need of developing some of these skills. Lots of times older bikes are sold simply because the carbs gum up, but there are usually a number of other things that they are in need of attention. You'll like be able to obtain plenty of wrenching experience working on such bikes before deciding to keep them or sell them to someone else.

I can relate to your situation. I bought my Hawk GT eleven years ago with many of the same thoughts in my mind. I didn't just want a motorcycle, I wanted a total motorcycle experience. With the exception of getting some help installing new suspension components when I needed to have the damper rods in the forks drilled out, I did all of the work on that bike on my own. I had a lot of fun with the Hawk and I learned a lot while caring for it. One of the biggest things I learned was patience. Whenever I found myself getting stuck on a problem, patience almost always played a role in my figuring out how to proceed without mucking something up.

I sold that bike last Sunday. After the new owner rode the bike back home to Idaho he wrote me to let me know how well the bike performed and just how much he enjoyed it (and they already had one Hawk GT in the family before buying mine). I'll no doubt miss my Hawk at times, but man did that ever make me feel good knowing that this bike performed so well because of all of the attention that I paid to it over the past eleven years.

I am probably one of the youngest on this forum but I have been working on my own bikes since a teenager and I have to agree with everyone about starting with a single or a twin. I know you can’t ride a true dirt bike anywhere, but have you ever ridden a small dual sport on the street? It is an absolute blast. Small bikes are awesome, exactly why Grom’s have gotten so popular. (What about a used grom?)

Buying a non running bike is always incredibly risky, but here is an XR200 in Wilmington that I would buy in a heartbeat if I were in your position [url=https://charlotte.craigslist.org/mcy/d/1983-honda-xr-200-dirtbike/6623661565.html]https://charlotte.craigslist.org/mcy/d/1983-honda-xr-200-dirtbike/6623661565.html

I don’t want to sound like I am smashing on your dreams of owning a CBX but if your M.O. with the bike is to learn how to wrench, I think it’s a mistake. When I was a kid me and my dad rebuilt a 72 Beetle for my sister to drive to high school. It was Fun because it wasn’t very hard or very frustrating. If it had been, I probably would have never enjoyed it and now I’d be one of those guys that takes their car to a jiffy lube for an oil change (the horror).

riggles, you serve as evidence that age and wisdom do not always go hand in hand. In my opinion, you've shared some very nice insights. (Boy, I'd love to get my hands on that particular XR200.)

[use2b_imp]

I want this so bad and the carbs are easy and simple ....
1967 CB 77 305 Superhawk- Original, silver/red


https://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-Honda-CB/1...%7Ciid%3A1