2017 CB1100 EX First Ride Review

[alprider]

rotor, believe me, as I stood there trying to frame those pics on my camera, I was flipping my phone back and forth. I ended up going with the vertical aspect because it was the only way to get the full scope of the trees, without pulling back too far and minimizing the bike. In particular, the shot with the Reading Tree kept including too many other things when I tried holding the camera horizontally.

Normally, though, you're absolutely correct.

Ulvetanna, the only explanation I could come up with as to why nothing ever touched down echoes what you're saying about the importance of a properly dialed chassis and overall setup. I've had other bikes with greater ground clearance scrape pegs, centerstands, exhausts, whatever, and it usually occurs when the bike unweights itself and comes back down too quickly in response to a sudden dip in the road, or in an off-camber corner riddled with bumps. Too little rebound damping is often the culprit, or the bike pitches back and forth as a result of choppy throttle response.

It was the utter absence of these factors that I first noticed during the initial bumpy section in the foothills, and was cemented for me on Mosquito Ridge. So many times I would physically and mentally prepare myself for the jolt or rough patch that I'm accustomed to having to ride through, but with this CB there was no need. Nothing ever upset the chassis. Rolling on and off the throttle creates no chassis pitch whatsoever, because there is no drive lash or abruptness from the fueling. In terms of the suspension, most bumps simply become non-bumps. No matter what I threw at her, her chassis remained level and unflustered, her forward momentum resolute.

It was the opposite of the usual racy feeling one experiences from something like a Street Triple, in which you're constantly on and off the throttle, shifting gears, braking hard, throwing the bike around.

You know...sport riding.

With the CB there was none of that. I simply left it in third gear and rolled on and off the throttle. Rather than a sudden slowing followed by a massive rush of acceleration, there was almost no engine braking or big hits of power, so the speed remained relatively constant. It was like riding a monorail, rather than driving a go-kart. When I did snick down to second gear to bring the revs up into the 5-7K range, it was more of the same, the only differences being the higher-pitched engine note and increased acceleration.

It's the seamless integration of each system working together to create a perfectly balanced package. The bike simply never strays from its appointed path, and without those sudden oscillations to upset the chassis the relative lack of ground clearance ceases to be an issue.

All I can think from watching the bike scrape in so many videos is that those guys are intentionally trying to make it scrape. They're doing something in their riding to upset the balance of the chassis.

Either that, or, yep, I just suck.

the problem is

mobiles has a wide angle lense: if you are to near at the object it will warped, A bike pulled upwards in the high/ compressed in the broad looks a bit less advantageous

but i would say: a good picture design comes first

[VLJ_imp]

Guth, I'm sure that the previous generation CBs also had excellent throttle response. From Day One, testers have noted the CB's smooth, glitch-free fueling. With the chain properly adjusted, I'm guessing your '13 also exhibits very little drive lash. Overall, I can easily picture your experiences on your CB mirroring mine, although I have no doubt that my suspension is plusher, and the addition of the sixth gear has to be a benefit.

alprider, you just described one circumstance in which I would fully expect to drag something on my CB: tight, uphill, off-camber, bumpy switchbacks that practically turn back on themselves. It's very easy to drag parts on those sorts of 1st-gear switchbacks when riding a long-wheelbase, low-slung bike.

mickey, you know that response post I made in MCD's Z900RS thread, in which I summed up the differences between the CB and Z900RS? I'm not so sure now that I would automatically give the handling and braking nods to the Z900RS. If the Kawi's suspension isn't as plush as the CB's and its fueling more glitchy, I can see the 900RS's handling bearing the brunt of those issues. In terms of the brakes, I don't see where the CB's could be any better, so I'm not willing to just hand the decision there to the Kawi, radial-mounted calipers notwithstanding. Also, while the CB does buzz a bit between 3,500 and 4,900, the Kawi supposedly suffers from fairly noticeable buzzing higher up on the tach, so perhaps it's no smoother overall than the CB.

I'm certain the Kawi accelerates harder and is more flickable. It weighs ninety fewer lbs and makes about ten more horsepower. At this point, however, those are the only nods I'm wiling to give the Kawi over the CB, unless and until I ride one and can confirm that it handles and brakes better than the Honda, in addition to being smoother.

I have my doubts.

Ulvetanna Wrote:Guth Wrote:I've never been pitched from my seat or had the bike upset in ways that Ulvetanna has mentioned for that matter.
Just to be clear for the record, it was VLJ who described those things, and I commented on them.
Nope, that wasn't me. Pitched From The Seat Guy is ohiorider, who complained that he finally gave up on his older CB, after never coming to terms with it. He's also The Front Suspension Destroys My Wrists Guy.

[the Ferret]

I like Freddie's explanation..it mirrors my own (although he's imminently more qualified to espouse it) and something I have always expressed when riding .... rolling on and off the throttle instead of whacking and chopping. smooth arcs instead of cut and thrust, go deep, look through the turn before making a decision on how to throttle or brake for that turn, or set up for the next turn if necessary. Do it right and it doesn't look like you are working hard at it or going that fast, but that's deceptive, in reality you are riding pretty quickly. Think Lorenzo's (or Pedrosa's) style vs Marquez's style. You might not be THE fastest on a given day, (that belongs to the guy taking the most risk with the best luck) but you are certainly not going to be the slowest, and your risk factor for wadding one up diminishes exponentially.

[VLJ_imp]

mickey, that's all well and good, but it tends to go out the window when your bike accelerates like a maniac. Carry enough speed into a tight corner, and you're going to have to work the brakes hard. Coming out of the corner, you're going to need to roll that throttle wide open, and quickly, if you want to keep the guy ahead of you in sight.

With its lengthy wheelbase and soft power delivery, the CB doesn't encourage that sort of riding. Rather, it rewards the smooth arcing style you described, which will always leave it trailing in the dust of an equally well ridden/well suspended, faster, lighter bike. In the real world, however, this CB will hang with most anything, unless we're talking about hardcore sportbike guys who (skillfully) ride public roads as if they're racetracks.

I'll simply have to let those guys go, and that's fine. I don't want to ride that way anymore, not on the street. I still want to have fun, but I don't want to have to over-commit and dip too deeply into the safety margin.

Have Fun While Riding A Bit More Sanely is the conundrum, and the CB strikes just the right balance for me.

[the Ferret]

Yea we don't have those kind of guys where I live thanks goodness lol or the pee up the wall contests on public roads, although I do see some of that on certain roads in northern Kentucky, but I can still avoid them by not going there on Saturday or Sunday mid day when they finally wake up and show up. I ride over there early or during the week. Around home I can ride any time of the day without seeing any of that foolishness. I simply ride for my own pleasure, not to impress someone else.

[Guth_imp]

mickey, that's all well and good, but it tends to go out the window when your bike accelerates like a maniac. Carry enough speed into a tight corner, and you're going to have to work the brakes hard. Coming out of the corner, you're going to need to roll that throttle wide open, and quickly, if you want to keep the guy ahead of you in sight.

With its lengthy wheelbase and soft power delivery, the CB doesn't encourage that sort of riding. Rather, it rewards the smooth arcing style you described, which will always leave it trailing in the dust of an equally well ridden/well suspended, faster, lighter bike. In the real world, however, this CB will hang with most anything, unless we're talking about hardcore sportbike guys who (skillfully) ride public roads as if they're racetracks.

I'll simply have to let those guys go, and that's fine. I don't want to ride that way anymore, not on the street. I still want to have fun, but I don't want to have to over-commit and dip too deeply into the safety margin.

Have Fun While Riding A Bit More Sanely is the conundrum, and the CB strikes just the right balance for me.

I'm guessing that the bikes that Lorenzo and Pedrosa ride accelerate just fine, lol.

[VLJ_imp]

Guth, you can also guess that Lorenzo and Pedrosa brake and snap the throttle open a thousand times more forcefully than mickey does, or than anyone does on the street. Also, their bikes have the world's best safety nannies, allowing those guys to whack the throttle open and closed, snap off four downshifts, and slam on the brakes in a manner that would make most people highside their trusty streetbikes into oblivion.

At the level of aggression with which MotoGP guys ride, all such analogies and comparisons to street riding are moot. It's not even apples to asparagus.

[Guth_imp]

My point being that it's all relative. Mickey was pointing out that some riders are just smoother than others, which I think applies at all skill levels.

[Nortoon_imp]

I am surprized that the sound of the 2017 CB1100 EX mufflers was not mentioned. Not the usual scooter sounding Honda mufflers, but not obnoxious either. Even pop a bit when down gearing to first.

MotoWerk Mirror Extenders will solve the elbows in the mirror problem. I bought them for my CB500X, and kept them for my CB1100 EX.

Grip Puppies will eliminate the buzz in the hands from the hard and small diameter Honda grips. They will also ease throttle hand cramping.

Tirox Synthetic Chain Wax will keep the rear wheel and spokes from gathering chain lube fling.

Honda or Ipone Spray Cleaner and Polish makes cleaning the rims and spokes easier. Because it is a polish, any road grime that does gather will wipe off easier.

The only thing I found that will remove fried bugs from those beautiful double-walled chrome headers is Autosol. Spread a little on the front and wait a while. Then polish by spinning an old sock around the header. Might take a couple of tries for those bugs that have turned to shellac.

[Ulvetanna_imp]

Front suspension on the 2017 CB1100 is possibly better. Rear, doubtful, but good enough. Call it even. Kawi's is adjustable.

Not the suspension, but the chassis and weight, quick response of the engine, very low gearing, and so on. The Kawasaki is going to be the quicker, faster bike every time.

The Honda will be the more stable and forgiving, every time.

Guth, I'm sure that the previous generation CBs also had excellent throttle response. From Day One, testers have noted the CB's smooth, glitch-free fueling. With the chain properly adjusted, I'm guessing your '13 also exhibits very little drive lash. Overall, I can easily picture your experiences on your CB mirroring mine, although I have no doubt that my suspension is plusher, and the addition of the sixth gear has to be a benefit.

alprider, you just described one circumstance in which I would fully expect to drag something on my CB: tight, uphill, off-camber, bumpy switchbacks that practically turn back on themselves. It's very easy to drag parts on those sorts of 1st-gear switchbacks when riding a long-wheelbase, low-slung bike.

mickey, you know that response post I made in MCD's Z900RS thread, in which I summed up the differences between the CB and Z900RS? I'm not so sure now that I would automatically give the handling and braking nods to the Z900RS. If the Kawi's suspension isn't as plush as the CB's and its fueling more glitchy, I can see the 900RS's handling bearing the brunt of those issues. In terms of the brakes, I don't see where the CB's could be any better, so I'm not willing to just hand the decision there to the Kawi, radial-mounted calipers notwithstanding. Also, while the CB does buzz a bit between 3,500 and 4,900, the Kawi supposedly suffers from fairly noticeable buzzing higher up on the tach, so perhaps it's no smoother overall than the CB.

I'm certain the Kawi accelerates harder and is more flickable. It weighs ninety fewer lbs and makes about ten more horsepower. At this point, however, those are the only nods I'm wiling to give the Kawi over the CB, unless and until I ride one and can confirm that it handles and brakes better than the Honda, in addition to being smoother.

I have my doubts.

Ulvetanna Wrote:Guth Wrote:I've never been pitched from my seat or had the bike upset in ways that Ulvetanna has mentioned for that matter.
Just to be clear for the record, it was VLJ who described those things, and I commented on them.
Nope, that wasn't me. Pitched From The Seat Guy is ohiorider, who complained that he finally gave up on his older CB, after never coming to terms with it. He's also The Front Suspension Destroys My Wrists Guy.

Just to be clear for the record, it was VLJ who described those things, and I commented on them.
Nope, that wasn't me. Pitched From The Seat Guy is ohiorider, who complained that he finally gave up on his older CB, after never coming to terms with it. He's also The Front Suspension Destroys My Wrists Guy.
I'm looking for clarity; you simply raised those issues as a discussion point in your earlier post; Guth briefly mentioned them, after I repeated them, in a way that could possibly suggest I was saying those were problems with a particular bike.

So we want to be clear, those are general issues to be considered when designing suspension and may or may not be a problem with any particular bike or rider. That was the context all along.

Guth, you can also guess that Lorenzo and Pedrosa brake and snap the throttle open a thousand times more forcefully than mickey does, or than anyone does on the street. Also, their bikes have the world's best safety nannies, allowing those guys to whack the throttle open and closed, snap off four downshifts, and slam on the brakes in a manner that would make most people highside their trusty streetbikes into oblivion.

At the level of aggression with which MotoGP guys ride, all such analogies and comparisons to street riding are moot. It's not even apples to asparagus.

Untrue. None of those guys snap the throttle on or off. If one watches the telemetry graph as any of those riders exit a turn, they will see the bar display smoothly increase for both throttle opening or brake pressure.

I have reviewed quite a few data acquisition charts from telemetry-equipped bikes and these control inputs happen very smoothly. Mid-turn at a 60+ degree lean angle, you can't even breathe, hardly, almost anything will cause the bike to lose traction. And the traction control on those bikes at that level is not anything like what one would find on even a production superbike, like my ZX-10R.

At the least level of intervention it will let the front wheel loft a few inches when it comes into the power, and will allow just a little bit of rear wheel spin.

At the race level, on huge slicks with massive amounts of traction, run at around 21 psi for the rear tire. Even less sometimes. The traction control is nowhere near as invasive as on a street superbike; how y'all think Marquez and company are leaving those long rear wheel black marks? That's how those guys steer, with some wheel spin. Sometimes you can see it very obviously, but most of the time you can't. The rear tire is just starting to break away, and the rider does have some control, quite a lot, actually.

There is no safety nanny involved with the brakes on a MotoGP bike or WSBK bike, or any racebike. Racebikes don't have ABS nor anything to prevent wheel lockup. That's why those guys get paid the big Euros.

Those riders go as fast as they do in the corners because they have the slowest hands. Smooth, measured, calculated, practiced. In fact I would suggest that the Ferret's throttle hand and brake input are VERY similar to those of the best racers.

How the heck could he have survived riding almost every day of the year on icy, wet, dirty roads? Seriously. Smooth is what gets you home.

I rode my ZX-10R on ice on one ride, no ABS, but it was interesting to notice how the TC worked really well. Of course one cannot lean a bike really at all on ice. One gets used to how the TC works on clean, dry pavement and it is fun to notice it working. Only at extremes do the cylinders start to cut, otherwise it's not even noticeable, it's all software based on comparative wheel speeds and lean angle.