06-12-2015, 10:58 PM
ChipBeck,
I apologize sir if I touched a nerve. And yes I said sir. I respect you and your opinions as I hope you would respect mine. I do research on many topics and alternative fuel just happens to be one of them. The information in my postings is backed by scientific data and many in the field who have done exhaustive studies and testing. But you should already have all this info being in the industry already. I'm not going to quote sources or otherwise, all of this information is out there and in abundance.
For the benefit of this venue, I'm not going to go back and forth with ChipBeck or anyone else on the topic of alternative fuels. I do however want to make sure that all sides of a topic get covered.
First I want to cover your number 6:
6. "The last item to mention is that there have been no documented cases that ethanol has harmed any engine or parts from it's use." This leaves me incredulous. Not one documented case?!?!? At least once a month I have a customer that is not paying attention fill up with E-85 in a non Flex Fuel car and drive away. They call furious when their car stops running and the typical cost to tow the car, drain the tank, clean out the fuel lines and get them back on the road is about $500. Let that E-85 sit in the car for a month and the cost to repair the rusted components can run into the thousands. Cars, trucks, boats, motorcycles, and all manner of power equipment numbering in the millions have been damaged by Ethanol. A new Dressor-Wayne gas pump costs about $15,000.00. If you pump E-85 with it the warranty is voided immediately. In order to pump E-85 I have to buy the $20,000 model with stainless guts."
You have to agree that ethanol pumps look different than regular gasoline pumps. An E85 pump has bright yellow colors and warnings about the use of it. How those people missed the bright colors and warnings is beyond me. It sounds like they could have just as easily put diesel in their tank with the exact same outcome. Ethanol didn't cause the problems with those vehicles, the people themselves did by not paying attention.
Ethanol is a very clean fuel. One of it's characteristics is that it can and does clean the inside of a fuel system when used. For someone that's intending to use ethanol blended fuels especially if the car has been burning gasoline for a while, it's suggested that smaller ratios of ethanol fuel are used at first and then the blend increased over time. If cleaning is going to happen, it allows the ethanol to clean out the fuel system more gradually. The folks that accidentally dumped a lot of ethanol into their fuel system benefited from a thorough fuel system cleaning.
Second the topic of number 2.
"A gallon of Ethanol only contains 65% as much energy as a gallon of gasoline. That's not an opinion, that's a fact. Many GM and Ford vehicles are Flex Fuel (including my new 2015 F-150) and the vehicle can determine the % of Ethanol up to 85% and adjust engine settings to run properly on it. None of them get "better mileage", none of them get the same mileage, every one of them get about 30% poorer mileage. My F-150 does worse than that on E-85."
I agree with you sir. Ethanol does have less thermal energy. Apples and oranges. Gas and ethanol are two different fuel types and have different sets of properties. Ethanol is going to react differently in an engine that is optimized for gasoline. Diesel engines require diesel fuel. It's an engine that is specifically made to run that type of fuel. Even though current flex fuel engines "will burn" E85, they are still gasoline engines that have been "massaged" to burn up to 85% ethanol.
There are a lot of vehicles already on the road without the flex fuel badge that are already flex fuel compatible. Meaning they will run up to an 85% (E85) fuel blend. A friend of mine has a 2002 Yukon. Nowhere in or outside of the vehicle does it say flex fuel. The gas tank cap isn't yellow. I did some snooping and research. In the owner's manual I found a couple lines that stated that this vehicle can run "oxygenated fuels up to a blend of E85". This is a flex fuel vehicle.
For those interested in alternative fuels or a choice at the pump please do your research. There's so much good information and misinformation out there.
Thank you for your time.
I apologize sir if I touched a nerve. And yes I said sir. I respect you and your opinions as I hope you would respect mine. I do research on many topics and alternative fuel just happens to be one of them. The information in my postings is backed by scientific data and many in the field who have done exhaustive studies and testing. But you should already have all this info being in the industry already. I'm not going to quote sources or otherwise, all of this information is out there and in abundance.
For the benefit of this venue, I'm not going to go back and forth with ChipBeck or anyone else on the topic of alternative fuels. I do however want to make sure that all sides of a topic get covered.
First I want to cover your number 6:
6. "The last item to mention is that there have been no documented cases that ethanol has harmed any engine or parts from it's use." This leaves me incredulous. Not one documented case?!?!? At least once a month I have a customer that is not paying attention fill up with E-85 in a non Flex Fuel car and drive away. They call furious when their car stops running and the typical cost to tow the car, drain the tank, clean out the fuel lines and get them back on the road is about $500. Let that E-85 sit in the car for a month and the cost to repair the rusted components can run into the thousands. Cars, trucks, boats, motorcycles, and all manner of power equipment numbering in the millions have been damaged by Ethanol. A new Dressor-Wayne gas pump costs about $15,000.00. If you pump E-85 with it the warranty is voided immediately. In order to pump E-85 I have to buy the $20,000 model with stainless guts."
You have to agree that ethanol pumps look different than regular gasoline pumps. An E85 pump has bright yellow colors and warnings about the use of it. How those people missed the bright colors and warnings is beyond me. It sounds like they could have just as easily put diesel in their tank with the exact same outcome. Ethanol didn't cause the problems with those vehicles, the people themselves did by not paying attention.
Ethanol is a very clean fuel. One of it's characteristics is that it can and does clean the inside of a fuel system when used. For someone that's intending to use ethanol blended fuels especially if the car has been burning gasoline for a while, it's suggested that smaller ratios of ethanol fuel are used at first and then the blend increased over time. If cleaning is going to happen, it allows the ethanol to clean out the fuel system more gradually. The folks that accidentally dumped a lot of ethanol into their fuel system benefited from a thorough fuel system cleaning.
Second the topic of number 2.
"A gallon of Ethanol only contains 65% as much energy as a gallon of gasoline. That's not an opinion, that's a fact. Many GM and Ford vehicles are Flex Fuel (including my new 2015 F-150) and the vehicle can determine the % of Ethanol up to 85% and adjust engine settings to run properly on it. None of them get "better mileage", none of them get the same mileage, every one of them get about 30% poorer mileage. My F-150 does worse than that on E-85."
I agree with you sir. Ethanol does have less thermal energy. Apples and oranges. Gas and ethanol are two different fuel types and have different sets of properties. Ethanol is going to react differently in an engine that is optimized for gasoline. Diesel engines require diesel fuel. It's an engine that is specifically made to run that type of fuel. Even though current flex fuel engines "will burn" E85, they are still gasoline engines that have been "massaged" to burn up to 85% ethanol.
There are a lot of vehicles already on the road without the flex fuel badge that are already flex fuel compatible. Meaning they will run up to an 85% (E85) fuel blend. A friend of mine has a 2002 Yukon. Nowhere in or outside of the vehicle does it say flex fuel. The gas tank cap isn't yellow. I did some snooping and research. In the owner's manual I found a couple lines that stated that this vehicle can run "oxygenated fuels up to a blend of E85". This is a flex fuel vehicle.
For those interested in alternative fuels or a choice at the pump please do your research. There's so much good information and misinformation out there.
Thank you for your time.