10-21-2016, 10:29 AM
Along the lines of the Ferret's questioning the competency of the new bits on the RS, I took my 2013 Standard for a nice ride today, with the idea of finding flaws in it that might be improved by the forks, wheels, and suspension of the RS version.
The simple straightforward truth is that, as I mentioned in my little diatribe about the RS last week, I really don't think there will be any improvements and most likely some detrimental effects.
I just spend a tad over 265 miles on two different racetrack over the last couple of weeks on my 2012 GSX-R 750 track bike. Other than removing the mirrors and slightly lower gearing, it's still a stock streetbike. It has the same tire sizes as the CB1100RS, but of course the geometry is much quicker. I've also got an FZ8, with the same tire sizes, and geometry not too far off from the new CB1100RS.
The point is I'm very familiar with the way the 120/70 and 180/55 feel and handle under pretty hard riding conditions on more than one machine.
As one member mentioned, the 180 rear is just drastically large on a bike like the CB1100. We don't need tires that wide on the rear until we get north of 100 horsepower at the rear wheel. The CB is well below that number. My Gixxer puts out about 127 at the rear wheel, the FZ8 about 96. Most dynos put the CB1100 at about 80 hp on a good day. Fat tires slow down the handling and make the ride harsher on the street because of greater rolling resistance over irregularities.
Having just come off the track, and taken the FZ8 for a quick comparison spin immediately before hopping onto the CB1100, I was instantly impressed and pleased with the nearly effortless handling once the bike gets above a fast walking pace.
But the handling remains excellent all the way into the riding envelope. The bike turns quickly, holds its line (even at triple-digit speeds), responds predictably to steering inputs at any speed, and doesn't mind trailbraking into a turn one bit. And it is very, very neutral while handling rough pavement much better than a bike with the wide supersport rubber. It really works like a very overgrown scrambler, going where you point it and responding well to throttle steering.
I took particular note of the fork action; it was very smooth but used a good deal of the fork travel, unlike a stiffly-suspended sportbike. The 18" wheels allow this, because the taller profile doesn't use up so much of the ground clearance. I honestly could not find anything I'd improve about the fork. I like the way it works and don't think I'll change it a bit.
The Ikon shocks are doing their job and I feel the same way about them. Ohlins pieces might give me some additional road feel or control but within the quite narrow performance envelope of this bike, I can't see where there would be any benefit.
The engine is smooth, with a huge torque spread and very predictable power delivery, but the bike is not slow.
The brakes are very good, needing no improvement (I got a good rear brake, albeit a bad battery, apparently).
The conclusion is that I've got to take a pass on the CB1100RS; the fat tires are going to change the handling with absolutely no benefit to performance in the least. The RS makes the same power, the same torque, as the Standard. It can't use the kind of rubber that can be mounted on the 17" wheels. It likely has less cornering clearance; I don't see how it could have more, given the same frame and engine (the engine is really the limiting factor, with that alternator hanging out there in the breeze). That's a problem for my riding style. With the 18's I never touch anything down which is how I like to ride.
I plan to wait until the handlebar assembly for the RS is available and replace the risers and bar from my Standard (it has the CB500 piece) with those from the RS. When I change the bars, I'll have Galfer make me a set of stainless steel brake lines for the front and rear (my bike is non-ABS). It doesn't really need them, but it's an inexpensive upgrade. Other than that, I can't think of anything I'd change about it.
The new RS is a fantastic conversation piece and will surely deliver a really good riding experience, especially for those who've not ridden the standard CB1100. I don't think there will be any issues with the bike at all. But as a current owner of a 2013 Standard I'd be giving up a better streetbike for one that largely replaces function with style (thanks to the Ferret for bringing that up).
However, if Honda had been selling the RS in 2013, I'd have bought it over the Standard with no hesitation and never looked back.
I'm basing my sense of the RS on the fact I already have several bikes with true high-performance chassis and really like the nearly effortless handling of the CB1100 Standard when I choose to ride it.
One more note: the CB500 bars vibrate more than the stock bars, even with the stock bar end weights installed. That's the main reason I want to replace them.
Now we'll have to wait and see who gets one and how they really stack up.
The simple straightforward truth is that, as I mentioned in my little diatribe about the RS last week, I really don't think there will be any improvements and most likely some detrimental effects.
I just spend a tad over 265 miles on two different racetrack over the last couple of weeks on my 2012 GSX-R 750 track bike. Other than removing the mirrors and slightly lower gearing, it's still a stock streetbike. It has the same tire sizes as the CB1100RS, but of course the geometry is much quicker. I've also got an FZ8, with the same tire sizes, and geometry not too far off from the new CB1100RS.
The point is I'm very familiar with the way the 120/70 and 180/55 feel and handle under pretty hard riding conditions on more than one machine.
As one member mentioned, the 180 rear is just drastically large on a bike like the CB1100. We don't need tires that wide on the rear until we get north of 100 horsepower at the rear wheel. The CB is well below that number. My Gixxer puts out about 127 at the rear wheel, the FZ8 about 96. Most dynos put the CB1100 at about 80 hp on a good day. Fat tires slow down the handling and make the ride harsher on the street because of greater rolling resistance over irregularities.
Having just come off the track, and taken the FZ8 for a quick comparison spin immediately before hopping onto the CB1100, I was instantly impressed and pleased with the nearly effortless handling once the bike gets above a fast walking pace.
But the handling remains excellent all the way into the riding envelope. The bike turns quickly, holds its line (even at triple-digit speeds), responds predictably to steering inputs at any speed, and doesn't mind trailbraking into a turn one bit. And it is very, very neutral while handling rough pavement much better than a bike with the wide supersport rubber. It really works like a very overgrown scrambler, going where you point it and responding well to throttle steering.
I took particular note of the fork action; it was very smooth but used a good deal of the fork travel, unlike a stiffly-suspended sportbike. The 18" wheels allow this, because the taller profile doesn't use up so much of the ground clearance. I honestly could not find anything I'd improve about the fork. I like the way it works and don't think I'll change it a bit.
The Ikon shocks are doing their job and I feel the same way about them. Ohlins pieces might give me some additional road feel or control but within the quite narrow performance envelope of this bike, I can't see where there would be any benefit.
The engine is smooth, with a huge torque spread and very predictable power delivery, but the bike is not slow.
The brakes are very good, needing no improvement (I got a good rear brake, albeit a bad battery, apparently).
The conclusion is that I've got to take a pass on the CB1100RS; the fat tires are going to change the handling with absolutely no benefit to performance in the least. The RS makes the same power, the same torque, as the Standard. It can't use the kind of rubber that can be mounted on the 17" wheels. It likely has less cornering clearance; I don't see how it could have more, given the same frame and engine (the engine is really the limiting factor, with that alternator hanging out there in the breeze). That's a problem for my riding style. With the 18's I never touch anything down which is how I like to ride.
I plan to wait until the handlebar assembly for the RS is available and replace the risers and bar from my Standard (it has the CB500 piece) with those from the RS. When I change the bars, I'll have Galfer make me a set of stainless steel brake lines for the front and rear (my bike is non-ABS). It doesn't really need them, but it's an inexpensive upgrade. Other than that, I can't think of anything I'd change about it.
The new RS is a fantastic conversation piece and will surely deliver a really good riding experience, especially for those who've not ridden the standard CB1100. I don't think there will be any issues with the bike at all. But as a current owner of a 2013 Standard I'd be giving up a better streetbike for one that largely replaces function with style (thanks to the Ferret for bringing that up).
However, if Honda had been selling the RS in 2013, I'd have bought it over the Standard with no hesitation and never looked back.
I'm basing my sense of the RS on the fact I already have several bikes with true high-performance chassis and really like the nearly effortless handling of the CB1100 Standard when I choose to ride it.
One more note: the CB500 bars vibrate more than the stock bars, even with the stock bar end weights installed. That's the main reason I want to replace them.
Now we'll have to wait and see who gets one and how they really stack up.