01-09-2018, 06:13 AM
johnf514, while I can't speak for anyone else, to me the seams looks cheap. The seamless tanks look like pricier, hand-built items, and do a much better job of matching the artisan-level craftsmanship Honda touts with the CB1100.
Ulvetanna, believe me, I'm right there with you on the speed thing, the SV650 thing (I owned a track-prepped, aluminum trellis-framed SV650 for 50,000 miles, including a trip up to and across western Canada with my wife and a full set of Ventura luggage on the back), the Z900 thing, and, especially, the T120 thing. I've been debating the T120 vs the CB1100 ever since the T120 was announced. The first T120 demo I rode had very poor fueling/throttle response, and it felt soooooo slow. A year later I rode two newer units, both of which had spot-on fueling. They were still mighty pokey compared to my Street Triple R, never mind the XSR900, but they were at least fast enough, I suppose, given that a large part of my motivation for going that route has to do with wanting to try to slow down.
I say that, and it makes sense intellectually, and yet every time I ride my XSR I continue to go way too fast. I still seek out roads like Skaggs Springs to approximate track riding. It's stupid, I know, but I just can't help it. Once I'm up there, I want to carry high corner speeds and accelerate hard into and out of the corners. I have no problem with sitting up and relaxing on the straights. Top-speed runs do nothing for me. My enjoyment comes from cornering, handling, and the sound and feel of the motor. On the way home, I want to be comfortable. No hand-numbing buzz, overly busy-feeling motor, or bone-jarring suspension. Oh, and no noisy wind turbulence!
Initially I favored the T120 over the CB1100, purely for looks. I find the Triumph to look smaller, and, despite the radiator, perhaps even more authentic. Whereas the CB is a mix-and-match homage to a number of older CBs, the T120 looks just like the original Bonneville. It's the fork gaiters, the white piping on the flat seat, the hand-painted coach lines on that rubber knee-guards-festooned tank, the period-correct twin peashooter pipes, and the '60s-era tail light. It also sounds and feels absolutely fantastic. That was the biggest thing in its favor, to me, the sound and feel of that big 270-degree parallel Twin. I love that motor out on the highway. Zero buzz, the mirrors stay clear at 75 mph, and the motor has a righteous rumble, as well as a wonderfully relaxed, leisurely cadence. Perfect.
Also in its favor is the fact that everyone except mickey who's ridden both bikes says the T120 is munch punchier and smoother than the CB1100, even the '17 EX with the slightly more powerful motor. Additionally, the T120 supposedly has a bit more ground clearance than the CB, despite having much more legroom. It also includes as standard excellent factory heated grips and traction control.
So, yep, there's a lot of things in favor of the Triumph, including the fact that I prefer my local Triumph/BMW/Ducati dealer to my local Honda dealer. Plus, hey, I can actually get a test ride on the Triumph, which has proven to be manifestly impossible with the CB1100.
The thing about the T120, though, is that it sure handles like a pig. Man, is the steering slow and heavy, especially after you rode an XSR900 to the Triumph dealership to grab a test ride on the T120. Coming off the Yamaha, the T120 handles like a dump truck, or a Harley. It also has a few niggling issues, such as the squeaky brakes (problem eliminated on the '18 model), water condensation in the instruments, too-small numbers in the digital display, and a clock that only offers the 24-hour military method rather than the usual 12-hour type. Smaller gas tank, too, plus it has those nasty seams.
For all of those pluses and minuses, the T120's biggest issue for me is simply the existence of the '17 EX. I love and admire the Honda in ways that I simply do not love and admire the Triumph. I love the Triumph's overall look nearly as much as I love the CB's, and I'm sold on the feel and character of the T120 motor. I also appreciate how small and comfortable it is for me, with perfect ergos. It's only ten lbs lighter than the CB, which is absolutely nothing when you're talking about 550-lb bikes, but it feels much smaller than the CB, while still having more legroom. In fact, its wheelbase is a couple inches shorter than the CB's, and its seat height is also lower. It certainly feels much slimmer between the knees, as well.
When I last visited the T120, I followed it up with an immediate trip over to the Honda dealer for another visit with the CB. This was when I realized that I simply prefer the CB1100. As much as I like the T120, I finally understood that it didn't pull at me or seem as special to me as that jewel-like CB1100 EX. I also realized that my attraction to the T120 wouldn't last as long as my deeper attraction to the CB1100.
So, even though the T120 might actually be the superior machine, functionally, I crossed it off my list. If it's going to be a retro, it's going to be the CB1100 EX. I may yet change my mind and let the T120 back into the running, but at the moment I'm nearly certain that if someone put a gun to my head and made me choose between those two bikes, I'd choose the Honda.
The Honda isn't without its foibles, however. For instance, even though everyone agrees that the new Dual Bending Valve Forks (or whatever they're called) are better than the old forks, I'm still rather nonplussed that Honda cheaped-out with those things on a $12k bike. For the money Honda is asking for the CB1100, there is no justification for going with a cost-cutting imitation of a cartridge design. They should have done the CB1100 proper justice and given it the best Showa suspension available, such as their Big Piston Forks, or at least the Separate Function BPFs they're using on the upcoming CB1000R.
The CB's suspension capabilities are already compromised by the decision to stay authentic with the dual shocks. The least Honda could do on their crown jewel Statement Bike is lavish it with the best components available from their Honda-owned suspension company. Not only would top-shelf suspension offer superior handling, it would also provide a plusher ride, all without changing the retro visual aesthetic one iota.
I really don't like that the CB uses the same forks as some new Harleys. The CB1100 deserves so much better, and Honda ought to know better.
In any case, I've pretty much eliminated the sport-tourers (Ninja 1000, and the upcoming Tracer 900GT) from my list. I don't want to deal with the windshield hassles. The Z900RS was never on my list. The upcoming CB1000R is certainly a strong contender, although its high price-point and forward-lean seating position will almost certainly preclude it as a candidate.
So, unless the T120 works its way back into my heart, I'm down to two contenders: the CB1100 EX, and, believe it or not, your Z900. I can't explain it, but somehow I have grown to like the looks of the Z900. I know it has a great motor, excellent fueling, a very low seat height, and a seating position that I think my reconstructed neck might be able to handle. I've sat on it a few times, and it's borderline. Compared to my modded XSR900, it has way less legroom and a bit more forward lean, but not as much lean as the stock XSR900 bars. The Z900's seating position might hit that perfect sweet spot for me of having just enough lean to combat the wind on the freeway, but not so much lean that it hurts my neck.
Yep, that goofy-looking Z900 might just work for me, plus it's super-affordable. Its only two major downsides are that it offers nowhere to attach soft luggage, and it supposedly doesn't offer enough available electrical capacity to power up heated grips, never mind heated vests and the like. That would be a deal-breaker for me. Where I live, I have to have heated grips, especially on a naked standard.
I'd call it an 80% to 15% lean towards the Honda over the Kawi, with the T120 making up the remaining 5%. From Day One the Honda has been at the forefront of my thoughts, and nothing else has come along to push it aside.
Edit: egleaves, I just saw your post offering me a test ride on your 2014 Standard. It's a six-speed, so that's the big thing. It won't sound and feel exactly like the '17 EX, but it's certainly close enough to give me a decent feel for how the EX turns, stops, accelerates, and vibrates. Yes, I would love to grab a test ride from you. We can swap bikes, so you can try riding an XSR900 with bar risers that come very close to approximating the CB's upright seating position. If anything, I think my bars are a bit higher than the CB's.
I live only five minutes from the place where you bought your bike. I'm definitely up for it, and thank you for the generous offer.
Ulvetanna, believe me, I'm right there with you on the speed thing, the SV650 thing (I owned a track-prepped, aluminum trellis-framed SV650 for 50,000 miles, including a trip up to and across western Canada with my wife and a full set of Ventura luggage on the back), the Z900 thing, and, especially, the T120 thing. I've been debating the T120 vs the CB1100 ever since the T120 was announced. The first T120 demo I rode had very poor fueling/throttle response, and it felt soooooo slow. A year later I rode two newer units, both of which had spot-on fueling. They were still mighty pokey compared to my Street Triple R, never mind the XSR900, but they were at least fast enough, I suppose, given that a large part of my motivation for going that route has to do with wanting to try to slow down.
I say that, and it makes sense intellectually, and yet every time I ride my XSR I continue to go way too fast. I still seek out roads like Skaggs Springs to approximate track riding. It's stupid, I know, but I just can't help it. Once I'm up there, I want to carry high corner speeds and accelerate hard into and out of the corners. I have no problem with sitting up and relaxing on the straights. Top-speed runs do nothing for me. My enjoyment comes from cornering, handling, and the sound and feel of the motor. On the way home, I want to be comfortable. No hand-numbing buzz, overly busy-feeling motor, or bone-jarring suspension. Oh, and no noisy wind turbulence!
Initially I favored the T120 over the CB1100, purely for looks. I find the Triumph to look smaller, and, despite the radiator, perhaps even more authentic. Whereas the CB is a mix-and-match homage to a number of older CBs, the T120 looks just like the original Bonneville. It's the fork gaiters, the white piping on the flat seat, the hand-painted coach lines on that rubber knee-guards-festooned tank, the period-correct twin peashooter pipes, and the '60s-era tail light. It also sounds and feels absolutely fantastic. That was the biggest thing in its favor, to me, the sound and feel of that big 270-degree parallel Twin. I love that motor out on the highway. Zero buzz, the mirrors stay clear at 75 mph, and the motor has a righteous rumble, as well as a wonderfully relaxed, leisurely cadence. Perfect.
Also in its favor is the fact that everyone except mickey who's ridden both bikes says the T120 is munch punchier and smoother than the CB1100, even the '17 EX with the slightly more powerful motor. Additionally, the T120 supposedly has a bit more ground clearance than the CB, despite having much more legroom. It also includes as standard excellent factory heated grips and traction control.
So, yep, there's a lot of things in favor of the Triumph, including the fact that I prefer my local Triumph/BMW/Ducati dealer to my local Honda dealer. Plus, hey, I can actually get a test ride on the Triumph, which has proven to be manifestly impossible with the CB1100.
The thing about the T120, though, is that it sure handles like a pig. Man, is the steering slow and heavy, especially after you rode an XSR900 to the Triumph dealership to grab a test ride on the T120. Coming off the Yamaha, the T120 handles like a dump truck, or a Harley. It also has a few niggling issues, such as the squeaky brakes (problem eliminated on the '18 model), water condensation in the instruments, too-small numbers in the digital display, and a clock that only offers the 24-hour military method rather than the usual 12-hour type. Smaller gas tank, too, plus it has those nasty seams.
For all of those pluses and minuses, the T120's biggest issue for me is simply the existence of the '17 EX. I love and admire the Honda in ways that I simply do not love and admire the Triumph. I love the Triumph's overall look nearly as much as I love the CB's, and I'm sold on the feel and character of the T120 motor. I also appreciate how small and comfortable it is for me, with perfect ergos. It's only ten lbs lighter than the CB, which is absolutely nothing when you're talking about 550-lb bikes, but it feels much smaller than the CB, while still having more legroom. In fact, its wheelbase is a couple inches shorter than the CB's, and its seat height is also lower. It certainly feels much slimmer between the knees, as well.
When I last visited the T120, I followed it up with an immediate trip over to the Honda dealer for another visit with the CB. This was when I realized that I simply prefer the CB1100. As much as I like the T120, I finally understood that it didn't pull at me or seem as special to me as that jewel-like CB1100 EX. I also realized that my attraction to the T120 wouldn't last as long as my deeper attraction to the CB1100.
So, even though the T120 might actually be the superior machine, functionally, I crossed it off my list. If it's going to be a retro, it's going to be the CB1100 EX. I may yet change my mind and let the T120 back into the running, but at the moment I'm nearly certain that if someone put a gun to my head and made me choose between those two bikes, I'd choose the Honda.
The Honda isn't without its foibles, however. For instance, even though everyone agrees that the new Dual Bending Valve Forks (or whatever they're called) are better than the old forks, I'm still rather nonplussed that Honda cheaped-out with those things on a $12k bike. For the money Honda is asking for the CB1100, there is no justification for going with a cost-cutting imitation of a cartridge design. They should have done the CB1100 proper justice and given it the best Showa suspension available, such as their Big Piston Forks, or at least the Separate Function BPFs they're using on the upcoming CB1000R.
The CB's suspension capabilities are already compromised by the decision to stay authentic with the dual shocks. The least Honda could do on their crown jewel Statement Bike is lavish it with the best components available from their Honda-owned suspension company. Not only would top-shelf suspension offer superior handling, it would also provide a plusher ride, all without changing the retro visual aesthetic one iota.
I really don't like that the CB uses the same forks as some new Harleys. The CB1100 deserves so much better, and Honda ought to know better.
In any case, I've pretty much eliminated the sport-tourers (Ninja 1000, and the upcoming Tracer 900GT) from my list. I don't want to deal with the windshield hassles. The Z900RS was never on my list. The upcoming CB1000R is certainly a strong contender, although its high price-point and forward-lean seating position will almost certainly preclude it as a candidate.
So, unless the T120 works its way back into my heart, I'm down to two contenders: the CB1100 EX, and, believe it or not, your Z900. I can't explain it, but somehow I have grown to like the looks of the Z900. I know it has a great motor, excellent fueling, a very low seat height, and a seating position that I think my reconstructed neck might be able to handle. I've sat on it a few times, and it's borderline. Compared to my modded XSR900, it has way less legroom and a bit more forward lean, but not as much lean as the stock XSR900 bars. The Z900's seating position might hit that perfect sweet spot for me of having just enough lean to combat the wind on the freeway, but not so much lean that it hurts my neck.
Yep, that goofy-looking Z900 might just work for me, plus it's super-affordable. Its only two major downsides are that it offers nowhere to attach soft luggage, and it supposedly doesn't offer enough available electrical capacity to power up heated grips, never mind heated vests and the like. That would be a deal-breaker for me. Where I live, I have to have heated grips, especially on a naked standard.
I'd call it an 80% to 15% lean towards the Honda over the Kawi, with the T120 making up the remaining 5%. From Day One the Honda has been at the forefront of my thoughts, and nothing else has come along to push it aside.
Edit: egleaves, I just saw your post offering me a test ride on your 2014 Standard. It's a six-speed, so that's the big thing. It won't sound and feel exactly like the '17 EX, but it's certainly close enough to give me a decent feel for how the EX turns, stops, accelerates, and vibrates. Yes, I would love to grab a test ride from you. We can swap bikes, so you can try riding an XSR900 with bar risers that come very close to approximating the CB's upright seating position. If anything, I think my bars are a bit higher than the CB's.
I live only five minutes from the place where you bought your bike. I'm definitely up for it, and thank you for the generous offer.