12-04-2014, 11:11 AM
Well we do agree strongly on:
Risk, yes, you are right there. Life itself is a risk. I suppose I would not be as risk averse in my recreational pursuits as some. I don't think I have ever not indulged in some form of recreation or sport that has not carried some risk. I accept those risks. Happily. Sometimes the risks I have taken have had the potential to create public expense in the form of emergency services being required to get me out of my own mess. For me, in my 70th year, not yet. I may have had a little luck but planning and preparation have helped.
Those odds you quote bring to mind the great Mark Twain who said, not originally (that honour belongs to one Benjamin Disraeli): "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics". I quote from the site:
Quote:One year odds are approximated by dividing the 2000 population (275,306,000) by the number of deaths.
I guess the entire, well almost, population could be regarded as pedestrian whereas the number of motorcyclists are considerably less. Transposing that fact to the approximation above would perhaps, no certainly, lead to a different conclusion regarding real odds. For example, by population, the chance of dying by lightning strike while on a golf course holding a one iron to the sky, during a fierce electrical storm, is next to zero. If one is a member of a group who chooses to indulge in that practice then the odds calculated within and confined to that group may not look so good.
As far as survival goes I know, personally, only one who has lost a leg. I met him at a rally where he was riding a modified three wheeler. He belongs to a support group of motorcyclists who have some form of disability suffered as a result of a motorcycle accident. It's a terrible shame Delbert didn't have a support group, it may have helped. Coincidentally, one of our motorcycling magazines recently featured an article on a bloke who is trying to get back on the race track after losing below the knee in a road bike accident. Maybe it's just Aussies. But I doubt it.
Speaking of Aussies, third party insurance in this country is compulsory for all road registered vehicles. Apart from that, personal insurance and private health cover is optional. However fault provisions apply to all forms of insurance and, if fault is proved, then the situation can be complex, with insurance companies loath to pay out the courts can come into play. There is a taxpayer funded Public Health Insurance scheme (Medicare), funded by a levy on all taxpayers. In the event of permanent disability, and limited assets, it is possible to be wholly supported by the State. That's a simple and not too accurate take but if you are interested there is information available through the usual source. Or Cormanus, who in his usual erudite manner, has given a better description while I lingered over the post button.
Cheers
(12-04-2014, 09:16 AM)The ferret_imp Wrote: If I read your post correctly (and Cormanus's), no one in Australia carries personal medical or liability insurance?I thought I had made that clear. I am averse however to unsolicited advice on the matter. Not that you have offered any, by the way. I do believe however that in today's world of structured motorcycle licence training schemes, as they exist in Australia at least, learners should receive enough information on the matter to be able to make their own choices in an informed manner.
Sorry about your nephew, and glad he is back doing what he loves, but truth is everything has risks Ptero, everything.... walking, running, bicycling, swimming, bathing, driving your car, playing sports, walking down the steps in your house...there is no life without risk. Is being in a motorcycle accident any worse on an individual than a chute not opening while skydiving, than falling off a precipice while out hiking? Or falling down a flight of steps at home?
Did you know your odds of being killed as a pedestrian are twice as high as being killed in a motorcycle accident? ( at least in this country)
1 in 49,601 for pedestrians vs 1 in 99,568 for motorcycle riders (safer to ride than to walk? statistics would say yes)
http://danger.mongabay.com/injury_death.htm
I can only remember the accidents of Randy and Matt on this forum. Both were treated and went home (thank goodness). There may be some residual pain and complications, but as long as those complications don't result in death later, that's treated and gone home..it certainly isn't death. I t-boned a car in 1968 when a lady turned left in front of me. Broken nose, right hand, right foot, 7 broken teeth. Totaled motorcycle. I was wearing an open face helmet. Saved my life as I went over the car and landed on my head on the asphalt on the other side. Was unconscious for 45 minutes. Spent some time in hospital but was treated and went home. I didn't die. I have been around motorcycles and motorcyclists since 1965, spent 17 years in the industry at the golden age of motorcycling (1972-1989). Know many that were in accidents....too many. Some of them died right away. The others were hospitalized for a time and came home. I know of not one that went to the hospital, lived, and became a drain on society for the rest of their life. Not one. You'd think if it was as prevalent as people make it out to be, that in 49 years I would have heard of ONE!
*edit... while eating dinner I did remember ONE, that would have been a drain on society had he lived. Friend named Delbert. Delbert rode a Kawasaki. Was 22 years old I think. He was a diabetic and while riding one day passed out, ran off the road and crashed. Single vehicle crash. Ironically Delbert was ATG geared up, full face helmet, armored top, armored pants, boots gloves, but in a freak happenstance broke his spine in the accident. He was treated and came home, but was paralyzed from the chest down. He would have been on disability the rest of his life but couldn't handle not being able to walk. He took his own life a year later. Nice kid. Brings tears to my eyes even now thinking about it. RIP Delbert.
Now you know why I don't like to get in these gear discussions lol. I believe in gear, even if I don't wear it 100% of the time. Choices and consequences you know?
Risk, yes, you are right there. Life itself is a risk. I suppose I would not be as risk averse in my recreational pursuits as some. I don't think I have ever not indulged in some form of recreation or sport that has not carried some risk. I accept those risks. Happily. Sometimes the risks I have taken have had the potential to create public expense in the form of emergency services being required to get me out of my own mess. For me, in my 70th year, not yet. I may have had a little luck but planning and preparation have helped.
Those odds you quote bring to mind the great Mark Twain who said, not originally (that honour belongs to one Benjamin Disraeli): "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics". I quote from the site:
Quote:One year odds are approximated by dividing the 2000 population (275,306,000) by the number of deaths.
I guess the entire, well almost, population could be regarded as pedestrian whereas the number of motorcyclists are considerably less. Transposing that fact to the approximation above would perhaps, no certainly, lead to a different conclusion regarding real odds. For example, by population, the chance of dying by lightning strike while on a golf course holding a one iron to the sky, during a fierce electrical storm, is next to zero. If one is a member of a group who chooses to indulge in that practice then the odds calculated within and confined to that group may not look so good.
As far as survival goes I know, personally, only one who has lost a leg. I met him at a rally where he was riding a modified three wheeler. He belongs to a support group of motorcyclists who have some form of disability suffered as a result of a motorcycle accident. It's a terrible shame Delbert didn't have a support group, it may have helped. Coincidentally, one of our motorcycling magazines recently featured an article on a bloke who is trying to get back on the race track after losing below the knee in a road bike accident. Maybe it's just Aussies. But I doubt it.
Speaking of Aussies, third party insurance in this country is compulsory for all road registered vehicles. Apart from that, personal insurance and private health cover is optional. However fault provisions apply to all forms of insurance and, if fault is proved, then the situation can be complex, with insurance companies loath to pay out the courts can come into play. There is a taxpayer funded Public Health Insurance scheme (Medicare), funded by a levy on all taxpayers. In the event of permanent disability, and limited assets, it is possible to be wholly supported by the State. That's a simple and not too accurate take but if you are interested there is information available through the usual source. Or Cormanus, who in his usual erudite manner, has given a better description while I lingered over the post button.
Cheers