Motorcycle License in the US

[Blockhead_imp]

Being a noob compared to most of you I took the MSF class just a few years ago. We had a young lady in class that had to be the worst rider/driver I've ever seen. She was extremely obese and struggled the entire time both days. During the obstacle test at the end she went outside the U-turn box by at least 15 feet to keep from dropping the bike. I couldn't believe they passed her. I hope she gave up riding...

We also had a young hotshot in class who showed up on his own Ducati sport bike with all the fancy matching leather gear. He was a know-it-all type who drove the instructors crazy, never would shut up. During the stop or swerve drill he grabbed a handful of front brake and dropped the bike and he went down hard. He limped over to the curb and sat down for 20 minutes, then he got back on his bike and drove away, quitting the class.

[Pauley]

Being a noob compared to most of you I took the MSF class just a few years ago. We had a young lady in class that had to be the worst rider/driver I've ever seen. She was extremely obese and struggled the entire time both days. During the obstacle test at the end she went outside the U-turn box by at least 15 feet to keep from dropping the bike. I couldn't believe they passed her. I hope she gave up riding...

We also had a young hotshot in class who showed up on his own Ducati sport bike with all the fancy matching leather gear. He was a know-it-all type who drove the instructors crazy, never would shut up. During the stop or swerve drill he grabbed a handful of front brake and dropped the bike and he went down hard. He limped over to the curb and sat down for 20 minutes, then he got back on his bike and drove away, quitting the class.

Wow. I took the MSF class in CA last year and had just the opposite experience. Everyone was there to learn, respectful, we all had a great time and everyone genuinely passed! I might have been lucky in that regard because a friend took the class right after me and there was a loud mouth know it all who screwed up a lot and annoyed everyone.

[HikerToo_imp]

:-) I'm thinking Henrick asked this question after reading the other thread where so many people described how they dropped their bikes so often or possibly soon after buying it...?

[Henrik_imp]

Well, HikerToo, that thought had crossed my mind

[Rocky_imp]

Varies from state to state, but generally you have to be 16 have to take a written test to get a drivers license, and have to take a riding test to get the MC endorsement. After that you can buy a Hyabusa if you want and go riding. There are no tiered systems in the US and I don't think there ever will be.

When I got my lic in 1966 in my home state of Ohio, I just had to ask to have the mc endorsement put on my drivers lic. Then in 1968 they made it mandatory to take a riding test, so on Jan 1 1968 when it became a legal requirement, my Dad, my younger brother and I all rode out to the testing center to take the test. When we walked in they asked why we were there and we told them. They said they didn't have it set up because it was winter and snowing and asked how we got there. We said we rode our motorcycles (about 60 miles). They said if we rode in that weather we didn't need to take the test and stamped our license. I never have taken any kind of tests written or riding with regards to motorcycle, just the written car lic test.

Now they also have a riding instruction and safety course that you can take with provided small displacement motorcycles and if you pass that course you automatically qualify for a MC endorsement.

That's pretty much the way it is in Canada too. It varies by province to some degree, but not much.

[Cormanus]

An Australian Perspective

Like the US, requirements vary from State to State in Australia and grow more complex and obtuse each year.

In Queensland, where I now live, you have to have held a provisional or open car license for at least 12 months sometime in the past 5 years before you can even apply for a learner's license to ride a motorcycle. I think I'm right in saying that, while you have a learner's license, you have to be accompanied somehow when you drive on the road. This is not the case in other states.*

You can escape the Learner's by undertaking an approved course of training which covers practice and theory. If you pass, you get a provisional license which allows you to ride bikes with a limited power to weight ratio. I can't remember what it is; if anyone looks like dying of curiosity, I'll try to find out, but it certainly allows you to ride some bikes up to 650cc capacity.

You then have to hold your provisional license for 12 months before you are eligible to do the training and be certified to ride any bike.

When I got a motorcycle license more than 40 years ago, I went to the Transport people, paid $1 and was given a learner's permit. That meant I could ride anything anywhere as long as I didn't carry a pillion passenger. When I turned 17 I took a brief practical test—the bloke watched me ride a few feet and back—and got a provisional license. Again I could ride anything anywhere but could not carry a pillion. After a year it was game on and unrestricted.

Seems to me there is benefit in the modern arrangements as there is some assurance that people have done some more substantial practical training than I had to do before being exposed to the delights of cagers with phones. That said, I'm not completely persuaded that requirements aren't getting Alitalia excessive as regulators strive to eradicate any possibility of harm from our lives—see [url=http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=3758]this thread.

*Ponder this absurdity if you will. Queensland shares a border with New South Wales where you can ride a bike on a learner's license without being accompanied. Because of the way Queensland's road rules are structured, you are required to comply with the conditions of your license if you ride in Qld. So a person from NSW riding on a learner's does not have to be accompanied, whereas a Qld learner does. This neat distinction hasn't percolated through the ranks of the constabulary who are forever apprehending NSW riders and booking them even though they are not breaking the law. Presumably the charge doesn't stick.

Oh, the joys of living in a federation born of a secession of power from the states.

[Powerdogg55]

I had a MC license in Georgia years ago. Got out of riding for a while and did not renew the M designation. Bought the CB & it was off to the Department of Driver Services to reapply. Took a written exam had to score 80% for a learners permit. Next step was to schedule an appointment to take the riders skill test (two days later). Riding course consisted of weaving in & out of a cone course (fairly tight) had to feather the clutch to negotiate without hitting a cone or putting your foot down. Next was a straight line acceleration to about 18-20 mph and panic stop within certain distance. Once again you had to accelerate to 18-20 mph and upon reaching a white line make a swerve right or left as instructed around an obstacle. Then a u turn within marked lines back to the instructor stopping with front wheel inside a marked box on the course. Points were deducted if you put your foot down while maneuvering the course, Failure to attain pre set speeds, or not stopping in required distance,or touching any boundary lines & cones on the course. The CB 1100 handled this course like a dream and I rode home with my license.

[Scoobynut_imp]

Here in N. Dakota, kids can get their m/c permit at age 14 if they complete the MSF course, which my son did as soon as he turned 14. He then rode on the permit for a few months, but had to take the written test only (no riding test because he took the MSF) before 6 months was up, which he did and passed and then had his 'M' endorsement. I think the young age is due to the fact that before ATV's and such, a lot of people used motorcycles around their farms (ND is mostly agricultural land) and they've never changed the law. In any case, my son was only allowed to ride with me before turning 16, and I did give him a lot of coaching in those two years, to the point that I was comfortable letting him ride my Super Tenere once in a while after he turned 16 (with me accompanying him and swapping to his Ninja 650). And yes, he's even ridden my CB1100, which he loves, by the way. He's 18 now. Just a few weeks ago we rode out to Red Lodge, Montana, and he did his first 1000 mile weekend, him on the Ninja, me on the Super Tenere.

Riders under 16 are restricted to 250cc or less in ND. Once you turn 16, you can ride whatever the hell you want! Kind of crazy thinking about a 16 year old riding a Hayabusa, but I have met just such a kid (not my own, thankfully) once when I was in Fargo looking at an old Yamaha. His dad had a Hayabusa also.

Oh, and if you are under 18 you're required to wear a helmet in ND. After that your brains are yours to do with as you see fit.

I suspect Henrik will be horrified by some of the above.

[Henrik_imp]

No, I can't say I am horrified. Growing up, my family moved around the world a fair bit, and so from an early age I ended up going to international schools. As a result, I had American friends from very early on. Later, as a teenager, I was really jealous of my American friends who could drive as early as 16 and even sometimes 14, while I had to wait until I turned 18. I just never really thought about what the situation was like for motorcycles in the US.

The thing is, I take motorcycle riding very seriously. We are extremely vulnerable and it is up to us, and only us, to do what we can to try and stay as safe as possible. I know the risks I take while riding, but to me everything I get out of riding makes the risks worth it. I know we all have to die some day, but I like to put the odds in my favour to the extent that I can. Requiring a certain level of testing before letting kids out on the roads in bikes probably helps a bit, but it is far from the solution. As a motorcycle rider we never stop learning, and because of that I have continued taking various riding courses since I got my license over 30 years ago.

I think I have a fair bit of experience by now, and according to some coaches I have had over the years I am not a bad rider. I am not a good racer because I am not aggressive, but I can stick with the fastest if I want to. I try to share this experience when I can, but unfortunately kids usually think they know everything. At the end of the day, we all have to get our own experience and unfortunately that will be a lethal experience for some.

[Scoobynut_imp]

Unfortunately, Henrik, a lot of motorcyclists in the U.S. don't take safety seriously. I was passing through Sturgis recently during the rally (not attending, mind you) and if I had a dime for every dimwit I saw riding around in jeans and a T-shirt with no helmet, I'd be a rich man. The pillion passengers were even worse, mostly females of course, some of them wearing nothing more than shorts, a bikini top and flip-flops. As the old saying goes, "When you crash, the world becomes your belt sander."

Not to mention all the bikes parked outside of bars everywhere you looked, and this was before noon. There were many, many accidents reported during the rally, nearly 200 in all, and I suspect most involved alcohol. And that's not counting the drunken knuckleheads who got lucky and somehow didn't crash...

Ultimately, I have mixed feeling about it. I wear full gear whenever I ride and that's my choice. But I've had some pretty bad accidents on mountain bikes (bicycles) and I know what even a slow-speed crash can do. On the other hand, I think the attitude in America is that we are free even to make less safe (some would say stupid) choices. I have mixed feelings about government trying to protect us from ourselves because it seems like there is eventually no limit on their regulating our behavior -- which I also see as a huge negative, and particularly dangerous to liberty. Tough call really, no doubt about it...