Will the CB1100 be the last of it's kind in America?

[bikerdave_imp]

All I know is that where ever I go on this bike I get more comments and appreciation of the bike than I have ever gotten on any other bike that I have owned and rode. I also know that for me it is the first time since the "old" late 70's to early 80's Hondas that I have
ridden comfortably and am constantly impressed with the bike and its abilities. and I've only got just under 600 mi. on it. I'm due for its 600 mi. service this week. For me, as in all other things, what others chose to do is up to them. I will never sell this bike while I am alive. It fits me and "just" works for me.

[JustPassinThru_imp]

Hmmm. Well, I'm in a college town...and mostly I'm ignored. There are a few bikers out and about...in cages or carts (pickups)...I can spot them because they give me a covert eye.

But in a town with mostly young people (who know little of old motorcycles) I don't think too many are impressed. It's not a Transformers ride...it's just one of those boring old bikes like the ones Dad rode. A boring old fart on it, like Dad.

Occasionally a Harley guy (sometimes with club colors, which may or may not be legit - seems we've become a pass-through point for some MC runs) will try stop-light dragging on the main, five-lane road. It's kinda fun...he sizing me, with my ATGATT green and grey-reflective...cruiserface scowl...light changes and he lets me hear the power of those open pipes. So I run it up, easy, to 2nd...and OPEN IT UP. I can hit 55 in seemingly the blink of an eye...5700 rpms. He's in the dust...scowl intact...you can almost hear him, "I intended that."

Other'n that...really, not much interest. In a world where college kids have BMWs, it takes a lot to wow the passers-by.

[ClassicVW_imp]

FYI BMW has announced the Scrambler
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-b...is-coming/

Honda and BMW both detune air cooled motors as a way to keep in compliance, which is one reason the CB1100 engine is only 9.5:1 compression @ 85 BHP.

Honda will continue to make the CB1100 model so long as it's profitable. Many dealers don't know how to sell them.

Air-cooled engines remain on current model of HD's, H's K's, Y's, S's, and will not die off any faster than water-cooled.

The genuine challenge to all motorcycle manufacturers of internal combustion engines remains electricity.

For example, http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/

Despite BMW not scoring very well in the recent Consumers Report article, unit sales are up about 16% YOY.

BMW is becoming an image brand (more than it already had been) and rich-man's goods.

It's dangerous to step into politics on such a board as this one, but politics touches us on many levels. For whatever reason, the income of Yuppie-Bankers has just TAKEN OFF. They suddenly have more money than they'd ever dreamed of; and so all the toys that a thirty-something paper-pusher might want - BMW motorcycles; BMW cars; Harley-Davidson motorcycles, Aspen ski lodges, racing boats...those are all selling well.

Honda is not seeing that. Honda does not have, never tried to have, the cachet that H-D and BMW now have. Honda is quality but Honda has always let its quality speak for itself. BMW has cultivated ITS image, quietly, of Germanic engineering and quality...some of which was deserved, some of which no longer is. And we know what H-D sells.

I don't think Honda's corporate aiming was flawed; but they seem to be in the right-place/wrong-time mode.

Just,

You appear to be a genuine enthusiast and you hail from my favorite state. But I would love to go for a ride with you and let you spend a couple hours riding my Harley Davidson in the Bitterroot mountains.

You have made this board aware of your "vicerial hatred for Harley Davidson" and reference their bikes as outdated technology. That's just not the case and those of us that have owned them for decades keep buying them because of how well they work.

My 1998 Road King is now 17 years old and it's fuel injected engine starts instantly even after sitting for 6 months! My newer carbureted Hondas require a carb rebuild before they will start if they sit. That H-D runs flawlessly from sea level to 9000 feet as it adjusts its own mixture to compensate for altitude. It's never leaked a drop of oil or required a repair other than maintenance. It's paint, fit, and finish are world standards that other makers aspire to. But the best thing about HD is how they feel. A high torque lope at idle and glass smooth at freeway speeds. I can ride 8 hours a day at 85 mph on that Road King with a passenger and bags.

Add in the best resale, an unrivaled dealer network with tons of great techs, excellent parts availability, and unbelievable aftermarket support and they are hard to beat.

We all bought a CB1100 because it has throwback air cooling and vintage styling but the bike itself is modern in invisible ways with fuel injection, electronic ignition, ABS on some models, and computer engine controls. That is exactly what HD has done. They have modern water cooled bikes like the V-Rod, 500, and Street 750. But most HD buyers are like you and me. They like the older style air cooled models.

We all gripe about the lack of color options on the CB. HD has multiple color options on every model. When I got out of college in 1978 and AMF still owned HD they were on a death watch. Under private ownership they got their act together and modernized everything. Quality was job #1 and 20 years later they sold (and still do) more street legal motorcycles in the US than all the Japanese makers combined.

A lot of kids run loud exhausts on their Jap sport bikes and they are as objectional at the very small percentage of HD riders who run loud pipes. The most obnoxious sounding bikes are metric V twin cruisers with open pipes.

And is dressing up like a pirate and riding a HD any more ridiculous that dressing up like a Power Ranger and riding a Honda? 99% of HD riders are really nice people as are Honda riders. I've never had a HD rider say anything about my CB that wasn't a compliment.

The aerodynamics and technology in the new Street Glide are best in class. The Honda Gold Wing is as good but it's just not as much fun to ride and IMO Gold Wing riders aren't as much fun either.

In any event, if I ride to Montana sometime it will be on a HD as it's just more comfortable at high speeds for long durations than the Honda. And I honestly believe that if we trade bikes for a couple hours you may not want to buy a Harley, but you'll certainly be impressed by how good it is in every way. Cheers bro.

Chip

Just,

You appear to be a genuine enthusiast and you hail from my favorite state. But I would love to go for a ride with you and let you spend a couple hours riding my Harley Davidson in the Bitterroot mountains.

You have made this board aware of your "vicerial hatred for Harley Davidson" and reference their bikes as outdated technology. That's just not the case and those of us that have owned them for decades keep buying them because of how well they work.

My 1998 Road King is now 17 years old and it's fuel injected engine starts instantly even after sitting for 6 months! My newer carbureted Hondas require a carb rebuild before they will start if they sit. That H-D runs flawlessly from sea level to 9000 feet as it adjusts its own mixture to compensate for altitude. It's never leaked a drop of oil or required a repair other than maintenance. It's paint, fit, and finish are world standards that other makers aspire to. But the best thing about HD is how they feel. A high torque lope at idle and glass smooth at freeway speeds. I can ride 8 hours a day at 85 mph on that Road King with a passenger and bags.

Add in the best resale, an unrivaled dealer network with tons of great techs, excellent parts availability, and unbelievable aftermarket support and they are hard to beat.

We all bought a CB1100 because it has throwback air cooling and vintage styling but the bike itself is modern in invisible ways with fuel injection, electronic ignition, ABS on some models, and computer engine controls. That is exactly what HD has done. They have modern water cooled bikes like the V-Rod, 500, and Street 750. But most HD buyers are like you and me. They like the older style air cooled models.

We all gripe about the lack of color options on the CB. HD has multiple color options on every model. When I got out of college in 1978 and AMF still owned HD they were on a death watch. Under private ownership they got their act together and modernized everything. Quality was job #1 and 20 years later they sold (and still do) more street legal motorcycles in the US than all the Japanese makers combined.

A lot of kids run loud exhausts on their Jap sport bikes and they are as objectional at the very small percentage of HD riders who run loud pipes. The most obnoxious sounding bikes are metric V twin cruisers with open pipes.

And is dressing up like a pirate and riding a HD any more ridiculous that dressing up like a Power Ranger and riding a Honda? 99% of HD riders are really nice people as are Honda riders. I've never had a HD rider say anything about my CB that wasn't a compliment.

The aerodynamics and technology in the new Street Glide are best in class. The Honda Gold Wing is as good but it's just not as much fun to ride and IMO Gold Wing riders aren't as much fun either.

In any event, if I ride to Montana sometime it will be on a HD as it's just more comfortable at high speeds for long durations than the Honda. And I honestly believe that if we trade bikes for a couple hours you may not want to buy a Harley, but you'll certainly be impressed by how good it is in every way. Cheers bro.

Chip
Ah, don't take it personal, Chip. One man's trash; another man's treasure.

Yup, I have stressed my dislike for H-D - only I think it's based on logic. That's not to put down Harley owners BECAUSE they own them; there is, I'm sure, some of the nicest people, out of the Honda commercials, on Harleys also. I DO have a visceral dislike for brutish, loud, not-very-bright people - no matter what they ride or if they ride. The kind who question the sexual orientation of the ATGATT riders, while proclaiming how "loud pipes save lives."

Not all Harley riders? Point taken.

Nor would I be adverse to experimenting with a Harley for a time. Like an electric cycle; like a Chinese cycle...I'm always open to learning new things about what I dislike. The Zero bike changed my view completely - about the practicality of electrics. Someday there will probably be a Chinese Honda-like company...and I'll have to eat my words about those things, too.

Like I said...don't read too much into that one line. What I WAS saying, though...is that H-D has an appeal that transcends the ups-and-downs of the economy. At least it's more resiliant than, say, Yamaha or Honda.

Just,

You appear to be a genuine enthusiast and you hail from my favorite state. But I would love to go for a ride with you and let you spend a couple hours riding my Harley Davidson in the Bitterroot mountains.

You have made this board aware of your "vicerial hatred for Harley Davidson" and reference their bikes as outdated technology. That's just not the case and those of us that have owned them for decades keep buying them because of how well they work.

My 1998 Road King is now 17 years old and it's fuel injected engine starts instantly even after sitting for 6 months! My newer carbureted Hondas require a carb rebuild before they will start if they sit. That H-D runs flawlessly from sea level to 9000 feet as it adjusts its own mixture to compensate for altitude. It's never leaked a drop of oil or required a repair other than maintenance. It's paint, fit, and finish are world standards that other makers aspire to. But the best thing about HD is how they feel. A high torque lope at idle and glass smooth at freeway speeds. I can ride 8 hours a day at 85 mph on that Road King with a passenger and bags.

Add in the best resale, an unrivaled dealer network with tons of great techs, excellent parts availability, and unbelievable aftermarket support and they are hard to beat.

We all bought a CB1100 because it has throwback air cooling and vintage styling but the bike itself is modern in invisible ways with fuel injection, electronic ignition, ABS on some models, and computer engine controls. That is exactly what HD has done. They have modern water cooled bikes like the V-Rod, 500, and Street 750. But most HD buyers are like you and me. They like the older style air cooled models.

We all gripe about the lack of color options on the CB. HD has multiple color options on every model. When I got out of college in 1978 and AMF still owned HD they were on a death watch. Under private ownership they got their act together and modernized everything. Quality was job #1 and 20 years later they sold (and still do) more street legal motorcycles in the US than all the Japanese makers combined.

A lot of kids run loud exhausts on their Jap sport bikes and they are as objectional at the very small percentage of HD riders who run loud pipes. The most obnoxious sounding bikes are metric V twin cruisers with open pipes.

And is dressing up like a pirate and riding a HD any more ridiculous that dressing up like a Power Ranger and riding a Honda? 99% of HD riders are really nice people as are Honda riders. I've never had a HD rider say anything about my CB that wasn't a compliment.

The aerodynamics and technology in the new Street Glide are best in class. The Honda Gold Wing is as good but it's just not as much fun to ride and IMO Gold Wing riders aren't as much fun either.

In any event, if I ride to Montana sometime it will be on a HD as it's just more comfortable at high speeds for long durations than the Honda. And I honestly believe that if we trade bikes for a couple hours you may not want to buy a Harley, but you'll certainly be impressed by how good it is in every way. Cheers bro.

Chip
Ah, don't take it personal, Chip. One man's trash; another man's treasure.

Yup, I have stressed my dislike for H-D - only I think it's based on logic. That's not to put down Harley owners BECAUSE they own them; there is, I'm sure, some of the nicest people, out of the Honda commercials, on Harleys also. I DO have a visceral dislike for brutish, loud, not-very-bright people - no matter what they ride or if they ride. The kind who question the sexual orientation of the ATGATT riders, while proclaiming how "loud pipes save lives."

Not all Harley riders? Point taken.

Nor would I be adverse to experimenting with a Harley for a time. Like an electric cycle; like a Chinese cycle...I'm always open to learning new things about what I dislike. The Zero bike changed my view completely - about the practicality of electrics. Someday there will probably be a Chinese Honda-like company...and I'll have to eat my words about those things, too.

Like I said...don't read too much into that one line. What I WAS saying, though...is that H-D has an appeal that transcends the ups-and-downs of the economy. At least it's more resiliant than, say, Yamaha or Honda.
From personal experience with H-D riders I have to agree that for every 5 responsible, sensible H-D owners I am aware of, there's 100 pirates and posers. Just this weekend I put 500 highway miles on the SUV and saw maybe 15 Harleys. All but one of them were cruising the left lane at the speed limit in T-shirts and brain bucket or Nazi helmets. ONE H-D was in the right lane with ATTGATT leathers on both rider and passenger.

And if the modern Harleys are so technologically advanced, how come every one you see on the highway, the license plate and saddlebags are a vibrating blur? And yes, I've owned a "modern" Harley and been a Harley motor cop and a BMW motor cop and the BMW runs rings around the Harley. Not bashing, just my experience and observations!

[ChipBeck_imp]

Gentlemen,

Before I bought my CB11 the bike I thought I really wanted was a BMW 1200GS. The whole "Adventure Bike" thing appealed to me. So I went down to the BMW dealership with my sweetheart Renea and we took one for a long road test. Compared to my glass smooth Harley Road King that BMW was a paint shaker. Complete buzz kill as the ergo's were uncomfortable enough but the vibration at any speed was terrible. The HD motor shakes at idle in it's rubber mounts in a most pleasing way. Accelerating away from a stop you can feel every cylinder fireing in that low RPM, high torque motor. A feel that defines HD and most riders love. But at speed that rubber mount motor is leagues smoother than any BMW boxer twin and smoother than my CB11. I ride with other Harley's all the time and I don't ever see "license plates and saddle bags a vibrating blur".

The BMW is probably faster than a Harley but that boxer wasn't a real high performer either. Comparing air cooled BMW twins with air cooled HD twins, the HD is much smoother at speed. It's not even close. The HD is also more comfortable and the feel of the 45 degree V twin is much more satisfying than the feel of the boxer. Harley twins outsell BMW twins over 10 to 1 for a reason. Cheers.

Chip

[JustPassinThru_imp]

I think the two-cylinder BMW boxers have just outgrown their potential; are too big for the two-cylinder design.

Which is one more reason I think their decision to terminate the K three-cylinder models was foolhardy.

At the very least, they ought to explore making a flat four...which would make more sense than an in-line longitudinal six.

[the Ferret]

Harley took a giant step forward with the rubber mounted Dyna series. I'd love to see a dyna based sport tourer.

[JustPassinThru_imp]

Harley took a giant step forward with the rubber mounted Dyna series. I'd love to see a dyna based sport tourer.

Yes.

I'd love to see Harley broaden their market. The way Buell was supposed to have done.

Except that the Buell crotch-rockets were of limited appeal...as you say, a Sport Touring model would be closer to Harley's natural market.

They'll have to redesign the frame. AND try a different engine layout. The big, heavy, long-stroke V is not what other segments of the market want.

So...an in-line three? Belt driven...to keep with what's become a Harley tradition. If a new engine is too expensive, contract it out or buy someone's design - maybe Rotax can crank out a three, quickly.

Keep the cruiser for those who want it...but offer something for someone who rides for reasons other than nostalgia or...whatever....

[ClassicVW_imp]

Chip, I guess our experiences and preferences are different, not right or wrong, just different experiences. I owned a H-D Dyna and it was a shaker. Every BMW I've owned did not shake. I was very pleased with the boxer twins I owned, none of them even gave me so much as a seat or handlebar vibration. Only boxer that I can recall that was less than silky smooth was a police RT that had over 60K of police use on it. The BMW police bikes beat Harley in most categories tested, if not all categories. Check the Michigan State Police tests which is the industry benchmark for testing police cars and motorcycles.

[JustPassinThru_imp]

Chip, I guess our experiences and preferences are different, not right or wrong, just different experiences. I owned a H-D Dyna and it was a shaker. Every BMW I've owned did not shake. I was very pleased with the boxer twins I owned, none of them even gave me so much as a seat or handlebar vibration. Only boxer that I can recall that was less than silky smooth was a police RT that had over 60K of police use on it. The BMW police bikes beat Harley in most categories tested, if not all categories. Check the Michigan State Police tests which is the industry benchmark for testing police cars and motorcycles.

Not to disagree with what you post here...but keep in mind that just as with cars, what police units look for is not what the end-use individual buyer looks for.

Police are concerned with performance and reliability. Comfort only enters into it when it means whether a patrolman can stand to use the bike for a full shift, day after day.

Power and torque count. Velvety smoothness and pleasure in use, not so important.

I know nothing of Harleys - except to watch them not idle well at stoplights. But the much-vaunted smoothness of the BMW boxer, in its current outsized form...is vastly overrated.

[drodg33]

I took delivery of my 14 Deluxe Friday. The employees I work with thought it was really good looking and were surprised it was a new bike. I don't think one of them would buy it though. My grandson who is a car and motorcycle nut (12 years old) loves it and thinks it is really beautiful especially with the chrome. It made me realize outside of Harley how few new bikes have chrome on them. I came from mostly a BMW RT past and Honda ST1300 so no chrome on those bikes to speak of. I think there will be a market for retro bikes and Honda especially couldn't figure a huge market for our bikes in the first place. You would think the Cafe motorcycle trend would bring interest to our style of bikes or the huge collector motorcycle market for 60's through 70's bikes. Maybe not. I got to say I love my bike but I am 58 and never got to buy a CB750 or CB500 when I was young. In a sense I am reliving my youth.