Victory Motorcycle to Wind Down Production

[Lord Popgun]

So, if you and Ferret get into a forum fight, can you ban each other

[ClassicVW_imp]

I know that the BMW final drive failures have peaked a few years ago, but still, replacing them cost $2100 at the dealer. And there were PLENTY of them failing. I believe a Honda final drive job is around $400-$450 and you'll almost never hear of one needing replacement.

Modern chains don't bother me. And the chain lubes stay where they're supposed to stay a lot better than years ago. (Honda Chain Wax is great stuff)

Motus: I've sat on one, very nice but may be too low for my long legs. One of the guys on the Guzzi forum bought one - loves it last I heard.

Chain drive: Once you hear about the catastrophic shaft drive failures chain does not sound so bad after all. 20K miles, new chain and sprockets - basically a very cheap rear drive complete over haul. I have two chain drive bikes now and they are not nearly the trouble they used to be in 80's. Like a lot of things in life, I think their negatives are based on old information. But hey, it's your money and we have choices.

Victory: Polaris can still bring out an Indian Victory down the line if Indian gives them the profits to experiment a bit. Although I think that motor is dead now. Or maybe they will think the Victory brand is bad juju and will use a different brand. I do think that if Polaris really wanted to keep making motorcycles, bringing out the Indian line was pure genius.

I have two chain drives and one shaft. The shaft is maintenance-free after the initial gear oil change at 500 miles (though I do change it when I change the engine oil anyway because it's so easy -- comes out the same color it goes in). The chains require maintenance every 500. If I go on a trip like I did last summer of almost 3,000 miles, I certainly do not want to stop EVERY DAY (I did 4-500 miles each day) to clean/lube the chain and adjust the position of the axle in the swing arm. Chains are fine for 'round-town bikes. The cost has nothing to do with it -- for me, it's the ride quality and maintenance required. No bike that claims to be for touring can run a chain. Another reason I also didn't buy a Ducati Multistrada. If I wanted to, I could certainly afford the Motus.

I forgot that the Motus doesn't have ABS or traction control... those are also non-starters, especially the TC on a bike with that much low-end torque. I very much wanted to love the bike, but it's missing what I consider key features for the segment it purports to be in.

I can see that, and I do appreciate the belt on my F800GT. But I've never believed that motorcycling is about ease and convenience....there's a lot about riding that is downright uncomfortable and inconvenient but that seems to be an inseparable part of the experience.

It's a bit like the hi-fi guys who still listen to vinyl. Not as convenient as an MP3 playlist, but the ritual of cleaning the record, adjusting the tracking force, setting the platter rpm via strobe, etc. is part of the enjoyment.

Motus: I've sat on one, very nice but may be too low for my long legs. One of the guys on the Guzzi forum bought one - loves it last I heard.

Chain drive: Once you hear about the catastrophic shaft drive failures chain does not sound so bad after all. 20K miles, new chain and sprockets - basically a very cheap rear drive complete over haul. I have two chain drive bikes now and they are not nearly the trouble they used to be in 80's. Like a lot of things in life, I think their negatives are based on old information. But hey, it's your money and we have choices.

Victory: Polaris can still bring out an Indian Victory down the line if Indian gives them the profits to experiment a bit. Although I think that motor is dead now. Or maybe they will think the Victory brand is bad juju and will use a different brand. I do think that if Polaris really wanted to keep making motorcycles, bringing out the Indian line was pure genius.

I have two chain drives and one shaft. The shaft is maintenance-free after the initial gear oil change at 500 miles (though I do change it when I change the engine oil anyway because it's so easy -- comes out the same color it goes in). The chains require maintenance every 500. If I go on a trip like I did last summer of almost 3,000 miles, I certainly do not want to stop EVERY DAY (I did 4-500 miles each day) to clean/lube the chain and adjust the position of the axle in the swing arm. Chains are fine for 'round-town bikes. The cost has nothing to do with it -- for me, it's the ride quality and maintenance required. No bike that claims to be for touring can run a chain. Another reason I also didn't buy a Ducati Multistrada. If I wanted to, I could certainly afford the Motus.

I forgot that the Motus doesn't have ABS or traction control... those are also non-starters, especially the TC on a bike with that much low-end torque. I very much wanted to love the bike, but it's missing what I consider key features for the segment it purports to be in.

I think some riders would be interested in these features (BMW sport touring riders) but possibly more in this segment (dedicated two-wheeled fanatics) would be repelled by any electronic brain between them and total control of the machine. Motus likely did their homework on market research in these two areas.

Well we could go back to breaker points and condensers, kick starters, spoke wheels, tubed bias ply tires, silver soldered ends on cables, carburetors with manual chokes, drum brakes.... that would certainly up the lack of ease and convenience factor.

The fact is each thing they do to make riding more convenient adds to the enjoyment. Having to clean, adjust, lube and replace chains is just another unnecessary inconvenience that takes away from the time we could spend enjoying our motorcycles.

8 years and 84,000 miles on a shaft drive bike.= $8.95 worth of 80 wt fluid and about an hours labor spread out over 8 years.

Same miles on a chain drive bike = $1200.00 worth of chains and sprockets (if you do the labor...add another $400 or so if you have a shop do it) plus untold hours of cleaning, lubing and adjusting and probably 4 or 5 cans of chain lube at $8.95 each

if you don't ride very many miles...no big deal. The average motorcyclist rides less than 2500 miles a year. 1 chain and sprocket set every 10 years. If you are a rider..25, 30, 40,000 miles a year, a chain is a huge detriment.

Taking my truck is a LOT more convenient and more comfortable to boot.

Says the guy with a shaft drive Moto Guzzi in the garage

And there's the reason (IMO) this whole chain vs. shaft drive debate is overblown and over discussed.

Motus: I've sat on one, very nice but may be too low for my long legs. One of the guys on the Guzzi forum bought one - loves it last I heard.

Chain drive: Once you hear about the catastrophic shaft drive failures chain does not sound so bad after all. 20K miles, new chain and sprockets - basically a very cheap rear drive complete over haul. I have two chain drive bikes now and they are not nearly the trouble they used to be in 80's. Like a lot of things in life, I think their negatives are based on old information. But hey, it's your money and we have choices.

Victory: Polaris can still bring out an Indian Victory down the line if Indian gives them the profits to experiment a bit. Although I think that motor is dead now. Or maybe they will think the Victory brand is bad juju and will use a different brand. I do think that if Polaris really wanted to keep making motorcycles, bringing out the Indian line was pure genius.

I have two chain drives and one shaft. The shaft is maintenance-free after the initial gear oil change at 500 miles (though I do change it when I change the engine oil anyway because it's so easy -- comes out the same color it goes in). The chains require maintenance every 500. If I go on a trip like I did last summer of almost 3,000 miles, I certainly do not want to stop EVERY DAY (I did 4-500 miles each day) to clean/lube the chain and adjust the position of the axle in the swing arm. Chains are fine for 'round-town bikes. The cost has nothing to do with it -- for me, it's the ride quality and maintenance required. No bike that claims to be for touring can run a chain. Another reason I also didn't buy a Ducati Multistrada. If I wanted to, I could certainly afford the Motus.

I forgot that the Motus doesn't have ABS or traction control... those are also non-starters, especially the TC on a bike with that much low-end torque. I very much wanted to love the bike, but it's missing what I consider key features for the segment it purports to be in.

I can see that, and I do appreciate the belt on my F800GT. But I've never believed that motorcycling is about ease and convenience....there's a lot about riding that is downright uncomfortable and inconvenient but that seems to be an inseparable part of the experience.

It's a bit like the hi-fi guys who still listen to vinyl. Not as convenient as an MP3 playlist, but the ritual of cleaning the record, adjusting the tracking force, setting the platter rpm via strobe, etc. is part of the enjoyment.

Motus: I've sat on one, very nice but may be too low for my long legs. One of the guys on the Guzzi forum bought one - loves it last I heard.

Chain drive: Once you hear about the catastrophic shaft drive failures chain does not sound so bad after all. 20K miles, new chain and sprockets - basically a very cheap rear drive complete over haul. I have two chain drive bikes now and they are not nearly the trouble they used to be in 80's. Like a lot of things in life, I think their negatives are based on old information. But hey, it's your money and we have choices.

Victory: Polaris can still bring out an Indian Victory down the line if Indian gives them the profits to experiment a bit. Although I think that motor is dead now. Or maybe they will think the Victory brand is bad juju and will use a different brand. I do think that if Polaris really wanted to keep making motorcycles, bringing out the Indian line was pure genius.

I have two chain drives and one shaft. The shaft is maintenance-free after the initial gear oil change at 500 miles (though I do change it when I change the engine oil anyway because it's so easy -- comes out the same color it goes in). The chains require maintenance every 500. If I go on a trip like I did last summer of almost 3,000 miles, I certainly do not want to stop EVERY DAY (I did 4-500 miles each day) to clean/lube the chain and adjust the position of the axle in the swing arm. Chains are fine for 'round-town bikes. The cost has nothing to do with it -- for me, it's the ride quality and maintenance required. No bike that claims to be for touring can run a chain. Another reason I also didn't buy a Ducati Multistrada. If I wanted to, I could certainly afford the Motus.

I forgot that the Motus doesn't have ABS or traction control... those are also non-starters, especially the TC on a bike with that much low-end torque. I very much wanted to love the bike, but it's missing what I consider key features for the segment it purports to be in.

I think some riders would be interested in these features (BMW sport touring riders) but possibly more in this segment (dedicated two-wheeled fanatics) would be repelled by any electronic brain between them and total control of the machine. Motus likely did their homework on market research in these two areas.

Well we could go back to breaker points and condensers, kick starters, spoke wheels, tubed bias ply tires, silver soldered ends on cables, carburetors with manual chokes, drum brakes.... that would certainly up the lack of ease and convenience factor.

The fact is each thing they do to make riding more convenient adds to the enjoyment. Having to clean, adjust, lube and replace chains is just another unnecessary inconvenience that takes away from the time we could spend enjoying our motorcycles.

8 years and 84,000 miles on a shaft drive bike.= $8.95 worth of 80 wt fluid and about an hours labor spread out over 8 years.

Same miles on a chain drive bike = $1200.00 worth of chains and sprockets (if you do the labor...add another $400 or so if you have a shop do it) plus untold hours of cleaning, lubing and adjusting and probably 4 or 5 cans of chain lube at $8.95 each

if you don't ride very many miles...no big deal. The average motorcyclist rides less than 2500 miles a year. 1 chain and sprocket set every 10 years. If you are a rider..25, 30, 40,000 miles a year, a chain is a huge detriment.

Taking my truck is a LOT more convenient and more comfortable to boot.

Says the guy with a shaft drive Moto Guzzi in the garage

I'm with you on this, Ferret. If the CB had a shaft drive and water cooling, I'd still have bought it, but, be blowed if I'll let you get away with this outrageous assertion. What you say (...each thing they do to make riding more convenient adds to the enjoyment) is not a fact; merely your opinion.

There are three kinds of people who own motorcycles (and let this ridiculously simplistic view fuel a discussion):
[li]those for whom it's all about riding;[/li] [li]those for whom it's all about making the bike better: adding a farkle or two or three, persuading themselves they can make the bike look better or go faster; and[/li] [li]the tinkerers who spend most of their lives staring happily at the bits on the workshop floor and wondering where on earth that last bolt goes, or getting off to adjust and lube their chain every 500 kms 'cause that's what you have to do.
[/li] I offer no criticism of any of these approaches. Whichever camp you inhabit is surely all part of the rich and diverse experience of motorcycling, isn't it?

If folk get their jollies from chains, oil and bits they have to figure out what to do with, and grease on their hands, good luck to them I say. But not me. No chance. I make no apology for the fact that I just want to get on it and ride even if I have no real idea what I'm doing. It's about the journey. It's about the ride. Getting out there with my bum on the AirHawk, burning through the fuel, adding to the carbon footprint and eating up the miles. Not worrying about the bronzing headers, the dirt or the hints of rust. Just riding.

If I never had to clean or service or attend to the thing at all; if all I had to do was get on it and ride it, I'd be a happy munchkin.

So, clearly I vote for option one. The rest of you? Discuss.

I'd add a 4th type and put it before #1- Those that buy a bike because everyone else did, or their next door neighbor did, or their hated brother in law did, and they take it out to polish it and park it in their driveway so everyone knows they are a "biker".
EDIT: That guy probably bought a MOTUS for 40K!

[the Ferret]

True... However I like discussing things cause Im retired and have no life. Too ugly out to ride.

[Stichill]

Motus: I've sat on one, very nice but may be too low for my long legs. One of the guys on the Guzzi forum bought one - loves it last I heard.

Chain drive: Once you hear about the catastrophic shaft drive failures chain does not sound so bad after all. 20K miles, new chain and sprockets - basically a very cheap rear drive complete over haul. I have two chain drive bikes now and they are not nearly the trouble they used to be in 80's. Like a lot of things in life, I think their negatives are based on old information. But hey, it's your money and we have choices.

Victory: Polaris can still bring out an Indian Victory down the line if Indian gives them the profits to experiment a bit. Although I think that motor is dead now. Or maybe they will think the Victory brand is bad juju and will use a different brand. I do think that if Polaris really wanted to keep making motorcycles, bringing out the Indian line was pure genius.

I have two chain drives and one shaft. The shaft is maintenance-free after the initial gear oil change at 500 miles (though I do change it when I change the engine oil anyway because it's so easy -- comes out the same color it goes in). The chains require maintenance every 500. If I go on a trip like I did last summer of almost 3,000 miles, I certainly do not want to stop EVERY DAY (I did 4-500 miles each day) to clean/lube the chain and adjust the position of the axle in the swing arm. Chains are fine for 'round-town bikes. The cost has nothing to do with it -- for me, it's the ride quality and maintenance required. No bike that claims to be for touring can run a chain. Another reason I also didn't buy a Ducati Multistrada. If I wanted to, I could certainly afford the Motus.

I forgot that the Motus doesn't have ABS or traction control... those are also non-starters, especially the TC on a bike with that much low-end torque. I very much wanted to love the bike, but it's missing what I consider key features for the segment it purports to be in.

I can see that, and I do appreciate the belt on my F800GT. But I've never believed that motorcycling is about ease and convenience....there's a lot about riding that is downright uncomfortable and inconvenient but that seems to be an inseparable part of the experience.

It's a bit like the hi-fi guys who still listen to vinyl. Not as convenient as an MP3 playlist, but the ritual of cleaning the record, adjusting the tracking force, setting the platter rpm via strobe, etc. is part of the enjoyment.

Motus: I've sat on one, very nice but may be too low for my long legs. One of the guys on the Guzzi forum bought one - loves it last I heard.

Chain drive: Once you hear about the catastrophic shaft drive failures chain does not sound so bad after all. 20K miles, new chain and sprockets - basically a very cheap rear drive complete over haul. I have two chain drive bikes now and they are not nearly the trouble they used to be in 80's. Like a lot of things in life, I think their negatives are based on old information. But hey, it's your money and we have choices.

Victory: Polaris can still bring out an Indian Victory down the line if Indian gives them the profits to experiment a bit. Although I think that motor is dead now. Or maybe they will think the Victory brand is bad juju and will use a different brand. I do think that if Polaris really wanted to keep making motorcycles, bringing out the Indian line was pure genius.

I have two chain drives and one shaft. The shaft is maintenance-free after the initial gear oil change at 500 miles (though I do change it when I change the engine oil anyway because it's so easy -- comes out the same color it goes in). The chains require maintenance every 500. If I go on a trip like I did last summer of almost 3,000 miles, I certainly do not want to stop EVERY DAY (I did 4-500 miles each day) to clean/lube the chain and adjust the position of the axle in the swing arm. Chains are fine for 'round-town bikes. The cost has nothing to do with it -- for me, it's the ride quality and maintenance required. No bike that claims to be for touring can run a chain. Another reason I also didn't buy a Ducati Multistrada. If I wanted to, I could certainly afford the Motus.

I forgot that the Motus doesn't have ABS or traction control... those are also non-starters, especially the TC on a bike with that much low-end torque. I very much wanted to love the bike, but it's missing what I consider key features for the segment it purports to be in.

I think some riders would be interested in these features (BMW sport touring riders) but possibly more in this segment (dedicated two-wheeled fanatics) would be repelled by any electronic brain between them and total control of the machine. Motus likely did their homework on market research in these two areas.

Well we could go back to breaker points and condensers, kick starters, spoke wheels, tubed bias ply tires, silver soldered ends on cables, carburetors with manual chokes, drum brakes.... that would certainly up the lack of ease and convenience factor.

The fact is each thing they do to make riding more convenient adds to the enjoyment. Having to clean, adjust, lube and replace chains is just another unnecessary inconvenience that takes away from the time we could spend enjoying our motorcycles.

8 years and 84,000 miles on a shaft drive bike.= $8.95 worth of 80 wt fluid and about an hours labor spread out over 8 years.

Same miles on a chain drive bike = $1200.00 worth of chains and sprockets (if you do the labor...add another $400 or so if you have a shop do it) plus untold hours of cleaning, lubing and adjusting and probably 4 or 5 cans of chain lube at $8.95 each

if you don't ride very many miles...no big deal. The average motorcyclist rides less than 2500 miles a year. 1 chain and sprocket set every 10 years. If you are a rider..25, 30, 40,000 miles a year, a chain is a huge detriment.

Taking my truck is a LOT more convenient and more comfortable to boot.

Says the guy with a shaft drive Moto Guzzi in the garage

Would not dispute the upkeep figures, but a complete analysis of total cost of ownership over the life of the bike would include the initial cost premium of the shaft drive (not insignificant). There's also the weight penalty (somewhat intangible) and the efficiency penalty (more fuel consumed).

Motus: I've sat on one, very nice but may be too low for my long legs. One of the guys on the Guzzi forum bought one - loves it last I heard.

Chain drive: Once you hear about the catastrophic shaft drive failures chain does not sound so bad after all. 20K miles, new chain and sprockets - basically a very cheap rear drive complete over haul. I have two chain drive bikes now and they are not nearly the trouble they used to be in 80's. Like a lot of things in life, I think their negatives are based on old information. But hey, it's your money and we have choices.

Victory: Polaris can still bring out an Indian Victory down the line if Indian gives them the profits to experiment a bit. Although I think that motor is dead now. Or maybe they will think the Victory brand is bad juju and will use a different brand. I do think that if Polaris really wanted to keep making motorcycles, bringing out the Indian line was pure genius.

I have two chain drives and one shaft. The shaft is maintenance-free after the initial gear oil change at 500 miles (though I do change it when I change the engine oil anyway because it's so easy -- comes out the same color it goes in). The chains require maintenance every 500. If I go on a trip like I did last summer of almost 3,000 miles, I certainly do not want to stop EVERY DAY (I did 4-500 miles each day) to clean/lube the chain and adjust the position of the axle in the swing arm. Chains are fine for 'round-town bikes. The cost has nothing to do with it -- for me, it's the ride quality and maintenance required. No bike that claims to be for touring can run a chain. Another reason I also didn't buy a Ducati Multistrada. If I wanted to, I could certainly afford the Motus.

I forgot that the Motus doesn't have ABS or traction control... those are also non-starters, especially the TC on a bike with that much low-end torque. I very much wanted to love the bike, but it's missing what I consider key features for the segment it purports to be in.

I can see that, and I do appreciate the belt on my F800GT. But I've never believed that motorcycling is about ease and convenience....there's a lot about riding that is downright uncomfortable and inconvenient but that seems to be an inseparable part of the experience.

It's a bit like the hi-fi guys who still listen to vinyl. Not as convenient as an MP3 playlist, but the ritual of cleaning the record, adjusting the tracking force, setting the platter rpm via strobe, etc. is part of the enjoyment.

Motus: I've sat on one, very nice but may be too low for my long legs. One of the guys on the Guzzi forum bought one - loves it last I heard.

Chain drive: Once you hear about the catastrophic shaft drive failures chain does not sound so bad after all. 20K miles, new chain and sprockets - basically a very cheap rear drive complete over haul. I have two chain drive bikes now and they are not nearly the trouble they used to be in 80's. Like a lot of things in life, I think their negatives are based on old information. But hey, it's your money and we have choices.

Victory: Polaris can still bring out an Indian Victory down the line if Indian gives them the profits to experiment a bit. Although I think that motor is dead now. Or maybe they will think the Victory brand is bad juju and will use a different brand. I do think that if Polaris really wanted to keep making motorcycles, bringing out the Indian line was pure genius.

I have two chain drives and one shaft. The shaft is maintenance-free after the initial gear oil change at 500 miles (though I do change it when I change the engine oil anyway because it's so easy -- comes out the same color it goes in). The chains require maintenance every 500. If I go on a trip like I did last summer of almost 3,000 miles, I certainly do not want to stop EVERY DAY (I did 4-500 miles each day) to clean/lube the chain and adjust the position of the axle in the swing arm. Chains are fine for 'round-town bikes. The cost has nothing to do with it -- for me, it's the ride quality and maintenance required. No bike that claims to be for touring can run a chain. Another reason I also didn't buy a Ducati Multistrada. If I wanted to, I could certainly afford the Motus.

I forgot that the Motus doesn't have ABS or traction control... those are also non-starters, especially the TC on a bike with that much low-end torque. I very much wanted to love the bike, but it's missing what I consider key features for the segment it purports to be in.

I think some riders would be interested in these features (BMW sport touring riders) but possibly more in this segment (dedicated two-wheeled fanatics) would be repelled by any electronic brain between them and total control of the machine. Motus likely did their homework on market research in these two areas.

Well we could go back to breaker points and condensers, kick starters, spoke wheels, tubed bias ply tires, silver soldered ends on cables, carburetors with manual chokes, drum brakes.... that would certainly up the lack of ease and convenience factor.

The fact is each thing they do to make riding more convenient adds to the enjoyment. Having to clean, adjust, lube and replace chains is just another unnecessary inconvenience that takes away from the time we could spend enjoying our motorcycles.

8 years and 84,000 miles on a shaft drive bike.= $8.95 worth of 80 wt fluid and about an hours labor spread out over 8 years.

Same miles on a chain drive bike = $1200.00 worth of chains and sprockets (if you do the labor...add another $400 or so if you have a shop do it) plus untold hours of cleaning, lubing and adjusting and probably 4 or 5 cans of chain lube at $8.95 each

if you don't ride very many miles...no big deal. The average motorcyclist rides less than 2500 miles a year. 1 chain and sprocket set every 10 years. If you are a rider..25, 30, 40,000 miles a year, a chain is a huge detriment.

Taking my truck is a LOT more convenient and more comfortable to boot.

Says the guy with a shaft drive Moto Guzzi in the garage

I'm with you on this, Ferret. If the CB had a shaft drive and water cooling, I'd still have bought it, but, be blowed if I'll let you get away with this outrageous assertion. What you say (...each thing they do to make riding more convenient adds to the enjoyment) is not a fact; merely your opinion.

There are three kinds of people who own motorcycles (and let this ridiculously simplistic view fuel a discussion):
[li]those for whom it's all about riding;[/li] [li]those for whom it's all about making the bike better: adding a farkle or two or three, persuading themselves they can make the bike look better or go faster; and[/li] [li]the tinkerers who spend most of their lives staring happily at the bits on the workshop floor and wondering where on earth that last bolt goes, or getting off to adjust and lube their chain every 500 kms 'cause that's what you have to do.
[/li] I offer no criticism of any of these approaches. Whichever camp you inhabit is surely all part of the rich and diverse experience of motorcycling, isn't it?

If folk get their jollies from chains, oil and bits they have to figure out what to do with, and grease on their hands, good luck to them I say. But not me. No chance. I make no apology for the fact that I just want to get on it and ride even if I have no real idea what I'm doing. It's about the journey. It's about the ride. Getting out there with my bum on the AirHawk, burning through the fuel, adding to the carbon footprint and eating up the miles. Not worrying about the bronzing headers, the dirt or the hints of rust. Just riding.

If I never had to clean or service or attend to the thing at all; if all I had to do was get on it and ride it, I'd be a happy munchkin.

So, clearly I vote for option one. The rest of you? Discuss.

I concur with this breakdown. I've seen it in the classic car hobby:
[ul] [li]Those who like to drive/use their old cars[/li] [li]This who like to meticulously detail their immaculately restored cars[/li] [li]Those who like to take a basket case and make a restoration project out of it (they get bored when the project is finished and immediately start another)
[/li][/ul]
I fall mainly in the ride/drive/use category so reliability is very important (not interested in troublesome electrics/carbs etc.) but I do enjoy the cleaning and maintenance rituals (because not every waking moment is available for riding anyway).

[ClassicVW_imp]

True... However I like discussing things cause Im retired and have no life. Too ugly out to ride.

Yep. You can tell it's winter by the discussion topics. It won't be long for another oil discussion. When we get down to discussing oil filters and someone starts cutting open the various brands for analysis of the filtering materials and mechanisms .... that's when I throw something at the computer screen...... THAT guy has no life!

[the Ferret]

yea I guess I view it from someone who just likes to ride and one that doesn't like to wrench. It never occurs to me that someone WANTS to wrench and get greasy, but I guess there are those among us.

I guess the manufactures by eliminating all those things I mentioned earlier and leaving the chain, give a nod to those who still like to spin wrenches and get greasy.

Long live the dirty, greasy, maintainable chain!

[4 Paws_imp]

Yeah, I can go along with the basic three types of motorcycle riders.
On another forum I participate in it appears that a large percentage of folks who plan on buying that particular brand already have in hand a long and expensive list of ˆfarklesˆ that they are adding at or prior to purchase before they even ride the bike away from the dealership. Quite a competition to add more "stuff" to the bike, fully encouraged by the dealership, to make the bike 'theirs'. Many lightly used examples available at bargains in a couple of years.

The tinkerers follow a similar path, quite happily changing out bits and pieces in a never ending quest to perfect the machine into an enviable masterwork of engineering just before replacing with another new almost perfect marvel just lacking the few finishing touches. At least they do ride their bikes and rationalize the upgrades publicly, and sell their surplus bits and pieces reasonably.

I mostly fall into your first category, I enjoy motorcycling for a variety of reasons and have recently returned to the philosophy of simplicity is a good thing. I understand that there are a lot of tradeoffs in motorcycle design and manufacturing between cost and performance. I grew tired of tupperware everywhere. Taller motorcycles for shorter legged riders required costly alterations or compromises right out the door. Hours long riding comfort rarely fit with exotic styling. Greater mass requires greater power to achieve velocity further complicating handling and stopping.

In the generic classification of all round street motorcycles that perform most tasks reasonably well at a moderate price there aren't a lot of contenders. All come with their own set of compromises. As experienced motorcyclists we can recognize the limitations of the several contenders we individually identify and choose accordingly. The CB isn't ideal but it does the job reasonably well. Going back to a chain was a decision requiring acceptance of a known compromise. Oiling it requires less time and trouble than checking air pressure which I do religiously, my version of a pre-flight check. Same with moderate cleaning, find problems early.

I thoroughly enjoy riding for the sake of the ride, any innovation that prolongs the ride at the expense of preparation and maintenance time is a worthy consideration. Costing less allows me to spend less time working and more time riding. My explanation to my corporate partners when I retired was that I wanted to go ride my motorcycle for a few decades. I am.

[CA200_imp]

Boy has this thread gone off track! Victory to touring bikes to chain ver.
shaft etc. ( I really like the part about sport touring bikes , they are my fav but most I can't even lift off the side stand anymore).
I have a Victory story I like to tell once in a while so maybe will bring this back. I seem to be the one to post last on a lot of threads so I
guess I can be a little boring.
When we had our retail store and had moved into our second location
( it was a former HD dealers building) sport bikes were the big thing and we had a lot of gear for them. We were the only place in town that
stocked leather suits etc.. This being a collage town we got a lot students. A group of engineering students used to come in a lot and we
really enjoyed them as customers. After they left school some came back to see us and tell us where their life had gone. One came back and told us about how he got hired at one of the big implement co.( I
think it was the one that makes the green ones). It was the motor dept.
eng .dept in the Midwest.
After he was hired their HR dept. gave the new hires a tour of the small town where the plant was. He told me the woman who gave him the tour know from his bio that he was big into motorcycles.
She told him she was excited by that a new exotic European motorcycle dealer had just came to town. He said as she drove by the new Victory dealer he just didn't the heart to tell her they were made in Minnesota

[the Ferret]

That's funny CA. I wonder what is become of the employees at the Victory plant. Hopefully Polaris will move some of the Indian production to that facility.

[rboe]

A kid that grew up next door (small town in Montana) liked to wrench on things. He's part of the group that would rather wrench on his ride than ride (not bikes; cars, pickups, tractors etc. - I swear he was happier when it was broke than when running and sorted).

Personally; when it comes to the astronomy hobby I seem to be happier making a scope, an observing chair etc. than actually using the scope.

When it comes to bikes I don't mind wrenching on them (my 650L is bent on changing that attitude - but yesterday she finally ran!!!!) but I much prefer just filling up and riding. Chain maintenance does not take that much time; especially compared the huge pain in the kiesters they were back in the 80's. Today we have more choices than we did back then so it's pretty easy to avoid chains, water cooling or whatever sticks in your craw.

But as was pointed out earlier, each has its' cost (and time is money), I guess it just boils down to when you want to pay. I have never owned a belt drive bike; but between the shaft bike and the chain bikes; for me, meh. No difference.

What does kinda make me wonder though, Victory didn't change the looks of their bikes much over the years. Makes you wonder what they could have done if they came out with a model that looked like a Standard bike. At the very least, a non-cruiser. Did they pay Arlen Ness so much they felt they had to get their money's worth out of the design? 18 years was too long.