How dealers lose the sale

[Ulvetanna_imp]

Hey, VLJ. I was wondering about you the other day. What happened. I take it you are not the owner of a CB1100?

Nope, still not a CB1100 owner. A few months ago I made my local dealer an offer on their 2017 EX, and we ended up $800 apart. I've been checking back in every so often to see if the bike is still there. As of a week ago, it's still there. Same vin number.

"So when are you going to actually buy the thing? It obviously has your name on it. You keep coming to visit it, so when are you going to take it home?"

"Hey, I made you an offer."

"Yes, you did."

"Three months later, this thing is still sitting here, and now we're heading into winter. Your sales guy says he has my phone number."

"Yep, we have your info stored in our system."

That's where we're at.

The thing is, other players are starting to enter the picture: the new Yamaha Tracer 900 GT, the new CB1000R, and maybe even a couple of much cheaper options like the new Z900, the new Z650, and the updated-for-2018 MT-07.

I've tried to like the new Z900RS, and while I like it more now than I did when I first saw it, I still don't like it all that much. I'm just not that impressed with its design, and I don't like what I'm hearing about the snatchy throttle response. Considering the enormous price difference, I actually prefer the basic Z900, with its stronger motor and smoother fueling.

In terms of the T120 vs CB1100 debate, I've just about eliminated the T120. I can get good heated grips for the Honda, and I've never had electronic cruise-control on a bike, so I won't miss it. My legs are short enough that the CB's reduced legroom isn't much of an issue. I still love the sound and feel of the Triumph's motor, but I'm fairly convinced now that I would also like the sound and feel of the '17 EX's motor, which sounds different from the '14, plus it's a few ponies stronger. Otherwise, I finally came to the conclusion that I just desire the CB1100 more than I desire the T120. Whereas with the T120 I fear that the bloom would soon fall from the rose once the novelty wore off, the CB1100 feels like more of a long-term affair to me.

I did a 400-mile "race" ride a few days ago on my XSR900. I'd picked up a nail in my rear Q3, which sucks, because that tire only had about two thousand miles on it. So, after replacing it with a new Q3 Plus, I wanted to scrub it in and get rid of the chicken strips.

Thus, the "race" ride. I did the Lake Berryessa/Skaggs Springs route, which is almost completely devoid of traffic this time of year. I had these roads all to my lonesome, so I really went hard. In fact, I pushed harder than I ever had on the XSR900, wanting to test its (our) limits.

Also, I wanted to test the suspension again, since it becomes a bit harsh when pushed really hard over bad stutter bumps.

My conclusions were a mixed bag. First off, yes, the suspension is a bit harsh over those bad bumps, but I seriously doubt that any bike would remain plush and fully composed over such bumps when pushed as hard as I was pushing, unless we're talking very high-dollar Ohlins or Penske suspension. This realization got me to thinking about whether I want to sink another $2-3K in upgraded suspension to make the XSR "perfect," or should I just stop being an idiot and accept that it's plenty good enough as is, and why in the hell am I still pushing that hard anyway?

I decided, no, I'm not going to sink a ton of money into suspension for the XSR. It's just fine as it is, 95% of the time. That other 5%, well, I can just back off a bit there.

During most of that ride I was having a great time, and I was definitely thinking, "This bike seriously rocks. It works perfectly. It sounds great. It's stable. The fueling and throttle response are dialed. The acceleration is insane. It's letting me go faster than I really ought to be going, and it can easily handle a whole lot more."

Up there on Skaggs Springs Rd, and Rockpile Rd, I was having a blast, and the bike really couldn't have been any better. More importantly, I knew it, too, and told myself this, right there inside my helmet. "This is all the bike you need, so stop already. Quit looking at other bikes. Quit thinking about other bikes. Be happy with what you have. This thing is absolutely killer, it sounds and feels wicked as hell, and the seating position doesn't hurt your jacked-up neck. It lets you do everything you like to do on a bike, and it's really good at the main thing you like to do on a bike, which is this stuff, right here, right now. It even gets pretty good fuel mileage (46 mpg, even on those sorts of rides), so just stop already!"

Yep, and as soon as I arrived back home, I popped onto my computer to check out some more Z900 and CB1100 videos.

I don't even know what I think the Z900 will give me that this modded XSR won't. With the ECU reflashed to eliminate all restrictions and match my full Akropovic exhaust system, this bike makes 112.4 at the wheel on the dyno, which is about what a Z900 makes at the rear wheel. It makes about 61 ft.-lbs of torque, which is a bit less than the Z900, but it makes it lower in the powerband. Combined with its much lower overall weight, I'm sure my bike is every bit as fast as a Z900, while being (or at least feeling) even punchier down low. I'm sure my brakes are better, and the suspension is probably about equal.

So why do I still want a Z900? I guess I like its looks better, and maybe the overall sound/feel/character of the motor? I like that its seat height is much lower, and with the way it has you sitting in the bike rather than atop it, like the XSR, I'm sure it offers better wind protection. Also, that price. $8,799 for the ABS model. Yow.

Great, but why do I still look at the CB1100?

I think I'm coming to realize that no matter what I look at, no matter what I ride, nothing tugs at me as hard as the '17 CB1100 EX does. I'm fully aware of its limitations, and I know it would force me to alter not only my riding style but my actual rides—no point in going to my usual race roads anymore if the bike can't handle them—yet I can't escape the CB's pull on me, which surpasses all others.

I shouldn't still be doing what I do on my XSR900. I know this. Even though it's still fun to me, the feeling of exhilaration is always tempered now by a gnawing awareness that this is just plain stupid, which diminishes the fun factor.

More and more, I feel like I simply belong on the CB1100. That's my future. I thought the same thing regarding the T120, but my heart tells me that the Honda is more "me" than the slow-steering, low-revving, British Harley Sportster-equivalent Triumph could ever be.

So, yes, of the pure retros, it's the Honda for me. Now it comes down to this: pure retro, or a hard-bags equipped sport-tourer, like the Ninja 1000 or Tracer 900 GT. If the bare-bones Honda didn't cost as much as those other two—if it only cost as much as the similarly-spec'd Z900, for example—the CB1100 would be the no-brainer choice for me. However, because it does cost just as much as the much higher-spec Ninja 1000 and Tracer GT, well, the Honda becomes a much more difficult sell, particularly in comparison to the Tracer. Hard bags, heated grips, cruise control, traction control, full-color TFT display, center stand, adjustable wind protection, hand guards, adjustable seat height, more upright seating position, much greater legroom, much lower weight, remote preload-adjustable shock, fully adjustable suspension, far superior handling and braking, way more power, AND it's that killer Yamaha Triple?

Brain vs heart. The brain says the Yamaha leaves nothing to be desired. It ticks off every functional box. It's a Yamaha, so its reliability is on par with the Honda's, and the new one is no longer a bad-looking bike, nor is it overly tall, like the old one. And for all that, the heart says the Honda is the one. The Honda is pure. The Honda is why we love motorcycles in the first place. Sure, the Yamaha is faster, sportier, more comfortable, and probably more fun, yet it somehow has the feeling of being more of a two-wheeled conveyance, rather than something that stirs the soul. For all its sporting attributes, it's rather appliance-like.

The Honda is just different. It's the one true outlier. It obviously makes the least sense, while clearly being the most emotionally satisfying choice.

For me, it probably comes down to those two bikes. The Tracer GT won't be out until next summer, however, and the price has yet to be announced. If it pushes much above $12,999, I'd probably drop it from consideration.

When all is said and done, I suspect my next bike will be my original number one choice, a red CB1100 EX. For all the Tracer's welcome appointments and gadgets, I can add heated grips and attach my set of my soft bags to the Honda and not really miss anything else from the Yamaha, and there would be no worries of noisy turbulence from the Yamaha's windscreen.

I suspect that in the end the heart will win. It usually does, right?

Nope, still not a CB1100 owner. A few months ago I made my local dealer an offer on their 2017 EX, and we ended up $800 apart. I've been checking back in every so often to see if the bike is still there. As of a week ago, it's still there. Same vin number. If it's gone one day I will probably be riding it, lol!

Just kidding of course but I am on the lookout for another bike next year and the '17 EX is at the top of the list.

[VLJ_imp]

Ulvetanna, I hope you do buy it! Because of your candor on this subject, I want to hear your full review.

[Beerman_imp]

Having owned and ridden a Harley for the past 10 years since I went to my CB1100 EX, I have to say that the dealer situation with Honda, from my experience was/is a hit or miss proposition. It was somewhat of a shock for me, both from the prospective of the outstanding sales and service experience I had with my Harley dealer, and the same type top notch experience I had back in the 1970s with Honda dealers in general.

I did not have the experience some others have had with sales people/dealers lacking enthusiasm for the CB1100, but in many cases during the shopping process, I did find that more often than not, I knew more about the bike than the sales person did. When I found that my new bike had a front end vibration problem, I was very surprised to find that dealers are apparently not required to have a Honda trained and certified mechanic as part of dealership contract terms with Honda. The significance of this aside from the obvious is that the Honda warranty procedure requires that a Honda certified mechanic verify the problem in order to start any warranty process with Honda, which among other things, meant that I had to find a dealer other than the one I bought the bike from to get the problem resolved. Had I known this wrinkle during the purchase process, it would have been a consideration in deciding which dealer I bought from. Personally, I want a Honda trained mechanic working on my bike during, and after the warranty has expired.

When I bought my bike, the dealer gave me a written sheet indicating that the first service on my bike at 600 miles was very important,and that it would cost $148.50 PLUS PARTS! As we all know, that first service on the CB1100, is just an oil and filter change. I usually prefer to do basic service myself, so one day I asked the dealers General Manager if I could do that first service myself. He said they recommended having at least the first service be done by them, because it was necessary in order to get my engine registered with Honda for warranty! Some time later, while talking with Honda U.S. Customer Service about my vibration problem, I mentioned this wrinkle. I was told in no uncertain terms that what the dealer GM had told me about the first service was not true, I could do the service myself ( just document it ), and that my bike was already registered with Honda for warranty. I offered to scan and email a copy of the sheet I had been given showing the cost of the first service, and was surprised at the Reps lack of interest. I was told that the dealers are independent, and could pretty much do what they wanted in terms of pricing.

The dealer I bought from offered the best purchase price, but in hind sight, had I known all the other little wrinkles, I would have paid a bit more in order to establish a relationship with a dealer that offered all the other aspects that would benefit me in the long run. Needless to say that first dealer made a sale, but will never see me for anything else ever again. I am a fan of the Honda brand, and love my CB1100, but I think there needs to be more oversight with dealer sales and customer service policies, and to a lesser extent with Honda U.S. Customer Service. I dont want the reader to think that I do not know that there are good reputable dealers out there, because there are. That said, the bad ones can definitely be discouraging, and no one would know which is which without knowing the right questions to ask up front.

As someone that has some background in retail management, I am reminded of the old adage, "the boss cant fix the problem if he does not know what the problem is". It got me to thinking, suppose a channel was opened with Honda Japan about these types of problems? By channel, I mean with a select/limited number of moderators of large owners groups like CB1100 Forum, communicating by email with someone specifically assigned at Honda Japan as a contact for these sorts of issues. Go to the top in Japan, and let directives from the top pass down to Honda U.S. for correction. Knowing how protective Honda Japan is of their name and reputation, it just might bring about positive change. A pipe dream, perhaps, but suppose it was proposed to Honda..no one knows what might happen until it is tried.

Of course. This is true of all motorcycle dealers, car dealers, etc.

Hey, VLJ. I was wondering about you the other day. What happened. I take it you are not the owner of a CB1100?

Nope, still not a CB1100 owner. A few months ago I made my local dealer an offer on their 2017 EX, and we ended up $800 apart. I've been checking back in every so often to see if the bike is still there. As of a week ago, it's still there. Same vin number.

"So when are you going to actually buy the thing? It obviously has your name on it. You keep coming to visit it, so when are you going to take it home?"

"Hey, I made you an offer."

"Yes, you did."

"Three months later, this thing is still sitting here, and now we're heading into winter. Your sales guy says he has my phone number."

"Yep, we have your info stored in our system."

That's where we're at.

The thing is, other players are starting to enter the picture: the new Yamaha Tracer 900 GT, the new CB1000R, and maybe even a couple of much cheaper options like the new Z900, the new Z650, and the updated-for-2018 MT-07.

I've tried to like the new Z900RS, and while I like it more now than I did when I first saw it, I still don't like it all that much. I'm just not that impressed with its design, and I don't like what I'm hearing about the snatchy throttle response. Considering the enormous price difference, I actually prefer the basic Z900, with its stronger motor and smoother fueling.

In terms of the T120 vs CB1100 debate, I've just about eliminated the T120. I can get good heated grips for the Honda, and I've never had electronic cruise-control on a bike, so I won't miss it. My legs are short enough that the CB's reduced legroom isn't much of an issue. I still love the sound and feel of the Triumph's motor, but I'm fairly convinced now that I would also like the sound and feel of the '17 EX's motor, which sounds different from the '14, plus it's a few ponies stronger. Otherwise, I finally came to the conclusion that I just desire the CB1100 more than I desire the T120. Whereas with the T120 I fear that the bloom would soon fall from the rose once the novelty wore off, the CB1100 feels like more of a long-term affair to me.

I did a 400-mile "race" ride a few days ago on my XSR900. I'd picked up a nail in my rear Q3, which sucks, because that tire only had about two thousand miles on it. So, after replacing it with a new Q3 Plus, I wanted to scrub it in and get rid of the chicken strips.

Thus, the "race" ride. I did the Lake Berryessa/Skaggs Springs route, which is almost completely devoid of traffic this time of year. I had these roads all to my lonesome, so I really went hard. In fact, I pushed harder than I ever had on the XSR900, wanting to test its (our) limits.

Also, I wanted to test the suspension again, since it becomes a bit harsh when pushed really hard over bad stutter bumps.

My conclusions were a mixed bag. First off, yes, the suspension is a bit harsh over those bad bumps, but I seriously doubt that any bike would remain plush and fully composed over such bumps when pushed as hard as I was pushing, unless we're talking very high-dollar Ohlins or Penske suspension. This realization got me to thinking about whether I want to sink another $2-3K in upgraded suspension to make the XSR "perfect," or should I just stop being an idiot and accept that it's plenty good enough as is, and why in the hell am I still pushing that hard anyway?

I decided, no, I'm not going to sink a ton of money into suspension for the XSR. It's just fine as it is, 95% of the time. That other 5%, well, I can just back off a bit there.

During most of that ride I was having a great time, and I was definitely thinking, "This bike seriously rocks. It works perfectly. It sounds great. It's stable. The fueling and throttle response are dialed. The acceleration is insane. It's letting me go faster than I really ought to be going, and it can easily handle a whole lot more."

Up there on Skaggs Springs Rd, and Rockpile Rd, I was having a blast, and the bike really couldn't have been any better. More importantly, I knew it, too, and told myself this, right there inside my helmet. "This is all the bike you need, so stop already. Quit looking at other bikes. Quit thinking about other bikes. Be happy with what you have. This thing is absolutely killer, it sounds and feels wicked as hell, and the seating position doesn't hurt your jacked-up neck. It lets you do everything you like to do on a bike, and it's really good at the main thing you like to do on a bike, which is this stuff, right here, right now. It even gets pretty good fuel mileage (46 mpg, even on those sorts of rides), so just stop already!"

Yep, and as soon as I arrived back home, I popped onto my computer to check out some more Z900 and CB1100 videos.

I don't even know what I think the Z900 will give me that this modded XSR won't. With the ECU reflashed to eliminate all restrictions and match my full Akropovic exhaust system, this bike makes 112.4 at the wheel on the dyno, which is about what a Z900 makes at the rear wheel. It makes about 61 ft.-lbs of torque, which is a bit less than the Z900, but it makes it lower in the powerband. Combined with its much lower overall weight, I'm sure my bike is every bit as fast as a Z900, while being (or at least feeling) even punchier down low. I'm sure my brakes are better, and the suspension is probably about equal.

So why do I still want a Z900? I guess I like its looks better, and maybe the overall sound/feel/character of the motor? I like that its seat height is much lower, and with the way it has you sitting in the bike rather than atop it, like the XSR, I'm sure it offers better wind protection. Also, that price. $8,799 for the ABS model. Yow.

Great, but why do I still look at the CB1100?

I think I'm coming to realize that no matter what I look at, no matter what I ride, nothing tugs at me as hard as the '17 CB1100 EX does. I'm fully aware of its limitations, and I know it would force me to alter not only my riding style but my actual rides—no point in going to my usual race roads anymore if the bike can't handle them—yet I can't escape the CB's pull on me, which surpasses all others.

I shouldn't still be doing what I do on my XSR900. I know this. Even though it's still fun to me, the feeling of exhilaration is always tempered now by a gnawing awareness that this is just plain stupid, which diminishes the fun factor.

More and more, I feel like I simply belong on the CB1100. That's my future. I thought the same thing regarding the T120, but my heart tells me that the Honda is more "me" than the slow-steering, low-revving, British Harley Sportster-equivalent Triumph could ever be.

So, yes, of the pure retros, it's the Honda for me. Now it comes down to this: pure retro, or a hard-bags equipped sport-tourer, like the Ninja 1000 or Tracer 900 GT. If the bare-bones Honda didn't cost as much as those other two—if it only cost as much as the similarly-spec'd Z900, for example—the CB1100 would be the no-brainer choice for me. However, because it does cost just as much as the much higher-spec Ninja 1000 and Tracer GT, well, the Honda becomes a much more difficult sell, particularly in comparison to the Tracer. Hard bags, heated grips, cruise control, traction control, full-color TFT display, center stand, adjustable wind protection, hand guards, adjustable seat height, more upright seating position, much greater legroom, much lower weight, remote preload-adjustable shock, fully adjustable suspension, far superior handling and braking, way more power, AND it's that killer Yamaha Triple?

Brain vs heart. The brain says the Yamaha leaves nothing to be desired. It ticks off every functional box. It's a Yamaha, so its reliability is on par with the Honda's, and the new one is no longer a bad-looking bike, nor is it overly tall, like the old one. And for all that, the heart says the Honda is the one. The Honda is pure. The Honda is why we love motorcycles in the first place. Sure, the Yamaha is faster, sportier, more comfortable, and probably more fun, yet it somehow has the feeling of being more of a two-wheeled conveyance, rather than something that stirs the soul. For all its sporting attributes, it's rather appliance-like.

The Honda is just different. It's the one true outlier. It obviously makes the least sense, while clearly being the most emotionally satisfying choice.

For me, it probably comes down to those two bikes. The Tracer GT won't be out until next summer, however, and the price has yet to be announced. If it pushes much above $12,999, I'd probably drop it from consideration.

When all is said and done, I suspect my next bike will be my original number one choice, a red CB1100 EX. For all the Tracer's welcome appointments and gadgets, I can add heated grips and attach my set of my soft bags to the Honda and not really miss anything else from the Yamaha, and there would be no worries of noisy turbulence from the Yamaha's windscreen.

I suspect that in the end the heart will win. It usually does, right?

I don't know your financial situation or if $800 is a meaningful amount of money to you, but I think you'd completely forget about it after a month of ownership.

This will sound strange, but sometimes when I drive a hard bargain and get my price, I end up questioning the quality and integrity of what I bought. When I pay a fair price, I get complete ownership satisfaction and fulfillment.

I don't know your financial situation or if $800 is a meaningful amount of money to you, but I think you'd completely forget about it after a month of ownership.

This will sound strange, but sometimes when I drive a hard bargain and get my price, I end up questioning the quality and integrity of what I bought. When I pay a fair price, I get complete ownership satisfaction and fulfillment.
I have zero doubts as to the quality or integrity of what I'm buying. It's a Honda, and a top-shelf Honda at that. I'm in the business, so I know the market, and I know what a fair price is for that bike. I also know how much money I lose the moment I ride the bike off the lot. Including all the fees and immediate depreciation, I lose $5000 in five minutes.

Because I still have the XSR, I'm not desperate to make the purchase. Either I will get the bike at a price I can somewhat stomach, or I'll wait. Come February, if I still want that bike and it's still sitting there, he'll move on the price. Then again, depending on what I see it going for elsewhere, I may no longer be willing to buy it at my initial offer price. If I see it becoming another fire-sale situation, as it was with the last CB1100, then my current offer is too high.

You are 100% correct, though, about the buyer's mindset and how he feels depending on what he paid for the vehicle. People who haggle down to the very last penny rarely feel content with the purchase. They're always miserable. They're also always the ones who kill you on the CSI survey. The people who pay full price are almost always thrilled. They bought an item, not a price, and they usually give nothing but happy feedback in their CSI surveys. Additionally, whereas the full-pop buyer tends to be a very loyal customer, the grinders rarely return to buy again. They scour the internet, make calls to the fleet/internet department managers, and drive a hundred miles to save eighty-seven bucks.

I don't particularly like the owner of my local Honda store. I know the guy. No one likes him, really. He's condescending, arrogant, disinterested, and not the least bit concerned with customer service. He's not even a motorcyclist. He can take them or leave them. I'm not about to overpay to buy a bike from that guy. Because he's my only local Honda dealer, yes, I will buy from him, but only at a price I can stomach. If I had a better local alternative, that's where I'd go.

I don't know your financial situation or if $800 is a meaningful amount of money to you, but I think you'd completely forget about it after a month of ownership.

This will sound strange, but sometimes when I drive a hard bargain and get my price, I end up questioning the quality and integrity of what I bought. When I pay a fair price, I get complete ownership satisfaction and fulfillment.
I know what a fair price is for that bike. I also know how much money I lose the moment I ride the bike off the lot. Including all the fees and immediate depreciation, I lose $5000 in five minutes.

Because I still have the XSR, I'm not desperate to make the purchase. Either I will get the bike at a price I can somewhat stomach, or I'll wait. Come February, if I still want that bike and it's still sitting there, he'll move on the price. Then again, depending on what I see it going for elsewhere, I may no longer be willing to buy it at my initial offer price. If I see it becoming another fire-sale situation, as it was with the last CB1100, then my current offer is too high.

You are 100% correct, though, about the buyer's mindset and how he feels depending on what he paid for the vehicle. People who haggle down to the very last penny rarely feel content with the purchase. They're always miserable. They're also always the ones who kill you on the CSI survey. The people who pay full price are almost always thrilled. They bought an item, not a price, and they usually give nothing but happy feedback in their CSI surveys. Additionally, whereas the full-pop buyer tends to be a very loyal customer, the grinders rarely return to buy again. They scour the internet, make calls to the fleet/internet department managers, and drive a hundred miles to save eighty-seven bucks.

I don't particularly like the owner of my local Honda store. I know the guy. No one likes him, really. He's condescending, arrogant, disinterested, and not the least bit concerned with customer service. He's not even a motorcyclist. He can take them or leave them. I'm not about to overpay to buy a bike from that guy. Because he's my only local Honda dealer, yes, I will buy from him, but only at a price I can stomach. If I had a better local alternative, that's where I'd go. This is good stuff VLJ! A reminder that so long as the money is in your pocket. you have the whip hand!

I also wanted the Ex in red...but other options come along.

Beerman

[Guth_imp]

Reading over this thread, I feel fortunate that I did not have to deal with the most of the issues being discussed. I did not hesitate to pay full price for my CB1100. There were no test rides involved, nor did I ask for one as I had ordered my CB before they had even arrived here in North America. As soon as I saw the photos of the bike that [url=https://rideapart.com/articles/honda-cb1100-spied-in-california]a Honda rep was "test riding" in California (long before Honda officially announced that they were going to release the CB1100 here) I just knew that it was what I wanted. I was never looking for anything more than what Honda had intended — a basic, but high quality retro standard that was was built with great attention to detail much in the tradition of a number of their classic CBs of the past.

That probably made things much easier (simpler) for me. I've never once worried about the price that I paid, nor have I wanted to trade my CB in on a newer model or for some other ride. I'm glad that I bought when I did as no version released since the original has held as much appeal for me. I can admire newer bikes that are being offered by other manufacturers, but none of these offerings have caused me to like my CB any less. While my CB1100 hasn't been perfect, I can still say that it's been great. I'm grateful that I still feel this way about "my bike". Preparing my CB for sitting idle this winter has made me realize that I myself am ready to come out of my "riding hibernation". I'm once again looking forward to jumping back on my bike when the right opportunity next presents itself.

With that in mind, I really feel for those of you that would like to purchase a CB1100 under your own terms and can't even find a dealer to at least work with you to some degree. I wish it weren't this way. It's a bummer to hear that this is how it is for so many who might otherwise also find enjoyment in the CB1100.

[Cormanus]

Hey, VLJ. I was wondering about you the other day. What happened. I take it you are not the owner of a CB1100?

Nope, still not a CB1100 owner. A few months ago I made my local dealer an offer on their 2017 EX, and we ended up $800 apart. I've been checking back in every so often to see if the bike is still there. As of a week ago, it's still there. Same vin number.

"So when are you going to actually buy the thing? It obviously has your name on it. You keep coming to visit it, so when are you going to take it home?"

"Hey, I made you an offer."

"Yes, you did."

"Three months later, this thing is still sitting here, and now we're heading into winter. Your sales guy says he has my phone number."

"Yep, we have your info stored in our system."

That's where we're at.

The thing is, other players are starting to enter the picture: the new Yamaha Tracer 900 GT, the new CB1000R, and maybe even a couple of much cheaper options like the new Z900, the new Z650, and the updated-for-2018 MT-07.

I've tried to like the new Z900RS, and while I like it more now than I did when I first saw it, I still don't like it all that much. I'm just not that impressed with its design, and I don't like what I'm hearing about the snatchy throttle response. Considering the enormous price difference, I actually prefer the basic Z900, with its stronger motor and smoother fueling.

In terms of the T120 vs CB1100 debate, I've just about eliminated the T120. I can get good heated grips for the Honda, and I've never had electronic cruise-control on a bike, so I won't miss it. My legs are short enough that the CB's reduced legroom isn't much of an issue. I still love the sound and feel of the Triumph's motor, but I'm fairly convinced now that I would also like the sound and feel of the '17 EX's motor, which sounds different from the '14, plus it's a few ponies stronger. Otherwise, I finally came to the conclusion that I just desire the CB1100 more than I desire the T120. Whereas with the T120 I fear that the bloom would soon fall from the rose once the novelty wore off, the CB1100 feels like more of a long-term affair to me.

I did a 400-mile "race" ride a few days ago on my XSR900. I'd picked up a nail in my rear Q3, which sucks, because that tire only had about two thousand miles on it. So, after replacing it with a new Q3 Plus, I wanted to scrub it in and get rid of the chicken strips.

Thus, the "race" ride. I did the Lake Berryessa/Skaggs Springs route, which is almost completely devoid of traffic this time of year. I had these roads all to my lonesome, so I really went hard. In fact, I pushed harder than I ever had on the XSR900, wanting to test its (our) limits.

Also, I wanted to test the suspension again, since it becomes a bit harsh when pushed really hard over bad stutter bumps.

My conclusions were a mixed bag. First off, yes, the suspension is a bit harsh over those bad bumps, but I seriously doubt that any bike would remain plush and fully composed over such bumps when pushed as hard as I was pushing, unless we're talking very high-dollar Ohlins or Penske suspension. This realization got me to thinking about whether I want to sink another $2-3K in upgraded suspension to make the XSR "perfect," or should I just stop being an idiot and accept that it's plenty good enough as is, and why in the hell am I still pushing that hard anyway?

I decided, no, I'm not going to sink a ton of money into suspension for the XSR. It's just fine as it is, 95% of the time. That other 5%, well, I can just back off a bit there.

During most of that ride I was having a great time, and I was definitely thinking, "This bike seriously rocks. It works perfectly. It sounds great. It's stable. The fueling and throttle response are dialed. The acceleration is insane. It's letting me go faster than I really ought to be going, and it can easily handle a whole lot more."

Up there on Skaggs Springs Rd, and Rockpile Rd, I was having a blast, and the bike really couldn't have been any better. More importantly, I knew it, too, and told myself this, right there inside my helmet. "This is all the bike you need, so stop already. Quit looking at other bikes. Quit thinking about other bikes. Be happy with what you have. This thing is absolutely killer, it sounds and feels wicked as hell, and the seating position doesn't hurt your jacked-up neck. It lets you do everything you like to do on a bike, and it's really good at the main thing you like to do on a bike, which is this stuff, right here, right now. It even gets pretty good fuel mileage (46 mpg, even on those sorts of rides), so just stop already!"

Yep, and as soon as I arrived back home, I popped onto my computer to check out some more Z900 and CB1100 videos.

I don't even know what I think the Z900 will give me that this modded XSR won't. With the ECU reflashed to eliminate all restrictions and match my full Akropovic exhaust system, this bike makes 112.4 at the wheel on the dyno, which is about what a Z900 makes at the rear wheel. It makes about 61 ft.-lbs of torque, which is a bit less than the Z900, but it makes it lower in the powerband. Combined with its much lower overall weight, I'm sure my bike is every bit as fast as a Z900, while being (or at least feeling) even punchier down low. I'm sure my brakes are better, and the suspension is probably about equal.

So why do I still want a Z900? I guess I like its looks better, and maybe the overall sound/feel/character of the motor? I like that its seat height is much lower, and with the way it has you sitting in the bike rather than atop it, like the XSR, I'm sure it offers better wind protection. Also, that price. $8,799 for the ABS model. Yow.

Great, but why do I still look at the CB1100?

I think I'm coming to realize that no matter what I look at, no matter what I ride, nothing tugs at me as hard as the '17 CB1100 EX does. I'm fully aware of its limitations, and I know it would force me to alter not only my riding style but my actual rides—no point in going to my usual race roads anymore if the bike can't handle them—yet I can't escape the CB's pull on me, which surpasses all others.

I shouldn't still be doing what I do on my XSR900. I know this. Even though it's still fun to me, the feeling of exhilaration is always tempered now by a gnawing awareness that this is just plain stupid, which diminishes the fun factor.

More and more, I feel like I simply belong on the CB1100. That's my future. I thought the same thing regarding the T120, but my heart tells me that the Honda is more "me" than the slow-steering, low-revving, British Harley Sportster-equivalent Triumph could ever be.

So, yes, of the pure retros, it's the Honda for me. Now it comes down to this: pure retro, or a hard-bags equipped sport-tourer, like the Ninja 1000 or Tracer 900 GT. If the bare-bones Honda didn't cost as much as those other two—if it only cost as much as the similarly-spec'd Z900, for example—the CB1100 would be the no-brainer choice for me. However, because it does cost just as much as the much higher-spec Ninja 1000 and Tracer GT, well, the Honda becomes a much more difficult sell, particularly in comparison to the Tracer. Hard bags, heated grips, cruise control, traction control, full-color TFT display, center stand, adjustable wind protection, hand guards, adjustable seat height, more upright seating position, much greater legroom, much lower weight, remote preload-adjustable shock, fully adjustable suspension, far superior handling and braking, way more power, AND it's that killer Yamaha Triple?

Brain vs heart. The brain says the Yamaha leaves nothing to be desired. It ticks off every functional box. It's a Yamaha, so its reliability is on par with the Honda's, and the new one is no longer a bad-looking bike, nor is it overly tall, like the old one. And for all that, the heart says the Honda is the one. The Honda is pure. The Honda is why we love motorcycles in the first place. Sure, the Yamaha is faster, sportier, more comfortable, and probably more fun, yet it somehow has the feeling of being more of a two-wheeled conveyance, rather than something that stirs the soul. For all its sporting attributes, it's rather appliance-like.

The Honda is just different. It's the one true outlier. It obviously makes the least sense, while clearly being the most emotionally satisfying choice.

For me, it probably comes down to those two bikes. The Tracer GT won't be out until next summer, however, and the price has yet to be announced. If it pushes much above $12,999, I'd probably drop it from consideration.

When all is said and done, I suspect my next bike will be my original number one choice, a red CB1100 EX. For all the Tracer's welcome appointments and gadgets, I can add heated grips and attach my set of my soft bags to the Honda and not really miss anything else from the Yamaha, and there would be no worries of noisy turbulence from the Yamaha's windscreen.

I suspect that in the end the heart will win. It usually does, right?

Great post, VLJ, and so true: the heart will win.

Have you considered a second hand EX? I haven't looked, but I assume there'll be one or two out there.

[tate_imp]

I have been an on and off member of this forum (great forum) for a couple of years or so. I had been interested in a 13/14 1100, and more recently the 2017 EX and RS. As in properly interested - ready to sign the cheque.

I visited several UK dealers who conveyed the following:

1. Disparaging comments about my Guzzi as a trade in (I didn't need a trade in, but was curious).
2. Portrayed the 1100 as a niche model: their customer base is interested in smaller bikes, or the Africa Twin.
3. No chance of a test ride.

The CB1100 is, in my humble opinion, a beautiful looking bike. I just hope I get to ride one day, because for now my (small, inconsequential)deal has gone to Triumph. Honda do not need my business, which is a greater pity to me than Honda - but I do think the members of this forum are riding a fabulous bike!

I will return (thus justifying Honda's treatment of me!).

Beerman

That's a shame they treated you that way and lost business it's in no way like that were I live they pretty much beg you to drive one and try every act in the book to sell it to you hahahah.

[VLJ_imp]

Hey, VLJ. I was wondering about you the other day. What happened. I take it you are not the owner of a CB1100?

Nope, still not a CB1100 owner. A few months ago I made my local dealer an offer on their 2017 EX, and we ended up $800 apart. I've been checking back in every so often to see if the bike is still there. As of a week ago, it's still there. Same vin number.

"So when are you going to actually buy the thing? It obviously has your name on it. You keep coming to visit it, so when are you going to take it home?"

"Hey, I made you an offer."

"Yes, you did."

"Three months later, this thing is still sitting here, and now we're heading into winter. Your sales guy says he has my phone number."

"Yep, we have your info stored in our system."

That's where we're at.

The thing is, other players are starting to enter the picture: the new Yamaha Tracer 900 GT, the new CB1000R, and maybe even a couple of much cheaper options like the new Z900, the new Z650, and the updated-for-2018 MT-07.

I've tried to like the new Z900RS, and while I like it more now than I did when I first saw it, I still don't like it all that much. I'm just not that impressed with its design, and I don't like what I'm hearing about the snatchy throttle response. Considering the enormous price difference, I actually prefer the basic Z900, with its stronger motor and smoother fueling.

In terms of the T120 vs CB1100 debate, I've just about eliminated the T120. I can get good heated grips for the Honda, and I've never had electronic cruise-control on a bike, so I won't miss it. My legs are short enough that the CB's reduced legroom isn't much of an issue. I still love the sound and feel of the Triumph's motor, but I'm fairly convinced now that I would also like the sound and feel of the '17 EX's motor, which sounds different from the '14, plus it's a few ponies stronger. Otherwise, I finally came to the conclusion that I just desire the CB1100 more than I desire the T120. Whereas with the T120 I fear that the bloom would soon fall from the rose once the novelty wore off, the CB1100 feels like more of a long-term affair to me.

I did a 400-mile "race" ride a few days ago on my XSR900. I'd picked up a nail in my rear Q3, which sucks, because that tire only had about two thousand miles on it. So, after replacing it with a new Q3 Plus, I wanted to scrub it in and get rid of the chicken strips.

Thus, the "race" ride. I did the Lake Berryessa/Skaggs Springs route, which is almost completely devoid of traffic this time of year. I had these roads all to my lonesome, so I really went hard. In fact, I pushed harder than I ever had on the XSR900, wanting to test its (our) limits.

Also, I wanted to test the suspension again, since it becomes a bit harsh when pushed really hard over bad stutter bumps.

My conclusions were a mixed bag. First off, yes, the suspension is a bit harsh over those bad bumps, but I seriously doubt that any bike would remain plush and fully composed over such bumps when pushed as hard as I was pushing, unless we're talking very high-dollar Ohlins or Penske suspension. This realization got me to thinking about whether I want to sink another $2-3K in upgraded suspension to make the XSR "perfect," or should I just stop being an idiot and accept that it's plenty good enough as is, and why in the hell am I still pushing that hard anyway?

I decided, no, I'm not going to sink a ton of money into suspension for the XSR. It's just fine as it is, 95% of the time. That other 5%, well, I can just back off a bit there.

During most of that ride I was having a great time, and I was definitely thinking, "This bike seriously rocks. It works perfectly. It sounds great. It's stable. The fueling and throttle response are dialed. The acceleration is insane. It's letting me go faster than I really ought to be going, and it can easily handle a whole lot more."

Up there on Skaggs Springs Rd, and Rockpile Rd, I was having a blast, and the bike really couldn't have been any better. More importantly, I knew it, too, and told myself this, right there inside my helmet. "This is all the bike you need, so stop already. Quit looking at other bikes. Quit thinking about other bikes. Be happy with what you have. This thing is absolutely killer, it sounds and feels wicked as hell, and the seating position doesn't hurt your jacked-up neck. It lets you do everything you like to do on a bike, and it's really good at the main thing you like to do on a bike, which is this stuff, right here, right now. It even gets pretty good fuel mileage (46 mpg, even on those sorts of rides), so just stop already!"

Yep, and as soon as I arrived back home, I popped onto my computer to check out some more Z900 and CB1100 videos.

I don't even know what I think the Z900 will give me that this modded XSR won't. With the ECU reflashed to eliminate all restrictions and match my full Akropovic exhaust system, this bike makes 112.4 at the wheel on the dyno, which is about what a Z900 makes at the rear wheel. It makes about 61 ft.-lbs of torque, which is a bit less than the Z900, but it makes it lower in the powerband. Combined with its much lower overall weight, I'm sure my bike is every bit as fast as a Z900, while being (or at least feeling) even punchier down low. I'm sure my brakes are better, and the suspension is probably about equal.

So why do I still want a Z900? I guess I like its looks better, and maybe the overall sound/feel/character of the motor? I like that its seat height is much lower, and with the way it has you sitting in the bike rather than atop it, like the XSR, I'm sure it offers better wind protection. Also, that price. $8,799 for the ABS model. Yow.

Great, but why do I still look at the CB1100?

I think I'm coming to realize that no matter what I look at, no matter what I ride, nothing tugs at me as hard as the '17 CB1100 EX does. I'm fully aware of its limitations, and I know it would force me to alter not only my riding style but my actual rides—no point in going to my usual race roads anymore if the bike can't handle them—yet I can't escape the CB's pull on me, which surpasses all others.

I shouldn't still be doing what I do on my XSR900. I know this. Even though it's still fun to me, the feeling of exhilaration is always tempered now by a gnawing awareness that this is just plain stupid, which diminishes the fun factor.

More and more, I feel like I simply belong on the CB1100. That's my future. I thought the same thing regarding the T120, but my heart tells me that the Honda is more "me" than the slow-steering, low-revving, British Harley Sportster-equivalent Triumph could ever be.

So, yes, of the pure retros, it's the Honda for me. Now it comes down to this: pure retro, or a hard-bags equipped sport-tourer, like the Ninja 1000 or Tracer 900 GT. If the bare-bones Honda didn't cost as much as those other two—if it only cost as much as the similarly-spec'd Z900, for example—the CB1100 would be the no-brainer choice for me. However, because it does cost just as much as the much higher-spec Ninja 1000 and Tracer GT, well, the Honda becomes a much more difficult sell, particularly in comparison to the Tracer. Hard bags, heated grips, cruise control, traction control, full-color TFT display, center stand, adjustable wind protection, hand guards, adjustable seat height, more upright seating position, much greater legroom, much lower weight, remote preload-adjustable shock, fully adjustable suspension, far superior handling and braking, way more power, AND it's that killer Yamaha Triple?

Brain vs heart. The brain says the Yamaha leaves nothing to be desired. It ticks off every functional box. It's a Yamaha, so its reliability is on par with the Honda's, and the new one is no longer a bad-looking bike, nor is it overly tall, like the old one. And for all that, the heart says the Honda is the one. The Honda is pure. The Honda is why we love motorcycles in the first place. Sure, the Yamaha is faster, sportier, more comfortable, and probably more fun, yet it somehow has the feeling of being more of a two-wheeled conveyance, rather than something that stirs the soul. For all its sporting attributes, it's rather appliance-like.

The Honda is just different. It's the one true outlier. It obviously makes the least sense, while clearly being the most emotionally satisfying choice.

For me, it probably comes down to those two bikes. The Tracer GT won't be out until next summer, however, and the price has yet to be announced. If it pushes much above $12,999, I'd probably drop it from consideration.

When all is said and done, I suspect my next bike will be my original number one choice, a red CB1100 EX. For all the Tracer's welcome appointments and gadgets, I can add heated grips and attach my set of my soft bags to the Honda and not really miss anything else from the Yamaha, and there would be no worries of noisy turbulence from the Yamaha's windscreen.

I suspect that in the end the heart will win. It usually does, right?

Great post, VLJ, and so true: the heart will win.

Have you considered a second hand EX? I haven't looked, but I assume there'll be one or two out there.

Great post, VLJ, and so true: the heart will win.

Have you considered a second hand EX? I haven't looked, but I assume there'll be one or two out there.
I tried to buy a new leftover black '14, but missed it by a couple of days. Otherwise, the only used ones I would consider would be a '14 Deluxe like mickey's, or a '17 EX. Has to be a red six-speed. I've seen a couple of '14 DLX's here and there, and no used '17 EX's. I would love to find a barely-used, much more affordable '17 EX with factory heated grips.

[Ulvetanna_imp]

Ulvetanna, I hope you do buy it! Because of your candor on this subject, I want to hear your full review.

We'll see what prices and availability look like after the new year.

I looked over a Z900RS very carefully today and it is a beautiful machine, really flagship quality. I am pretty sure Kawasaki will sell many of them.

But to me, and since I already own a Z900 Supernaked, that bike wouldn't serve any purpose but to remind me how much faster and better handling the "R" model is.

On the other hand, the CB1100 would actually fulfill the role of a retro bike. I'm pretty sure the Dual Bending Valve forks and many other upgrades have put it much closer to where I was trying to arrive in the first place.

Of course the weight is still there, but in this case it is a benefit because it is indeed "road-hugging". Under 500 pounds is excellent for handling and pushing around in the garage but on the longer rides the Z900 does lack the solid stability and ride quality of the CB1100. Over 10,000 miles on the 2013, I am pretty sure I know what I would like to see changed.

The weight I'll have to manage as always but the tradeoff may be worth it.

I do not think there will be another version of the CB1100 again. This one is probably it.

[VLJ_imp]

Before all is said and done, I would at least expect the CB1100 RS to make its way to our shores. Not sure which version I'd prefer then, either. I like the monotone paint scheme on the RS's motor, plus its heftier suspension and brakes, but I prefer the chrome pieces, stitched seat, solid red color, traditional turnsignals, and more upright seating position of the EX. Regarding the differences in the wheels, I'm torn. I prefer the look of the EX's polished spokes, but the tubeless 17" cast wheels on the RS are obviously easier to live with. If the EX's wheels were tubeless, I'd definitely prefer the spokes.

[Cormanus]

VLJ, https://www.cycletrader.com/listing/2017...-120582885