EBR goes Kaput.

[redbirds_imp]

That is a real pity. I really liked Buells, and was set to buy an XB12S. However, just then my company moved me to Singapore, and so when I got there unfortunately there was nobody importing them there. When I got back to Switzerland 4 years later I then started looking at the 1125CR instead as I thought they were great with the Rotax engines. Unfortunately it was not to be, because HD decided to shut down Buell before I got the chance to buy it.

There are many of these small bike manufacturers in Europe as well, and they all struggle. Luckily there are still enough enthusiasts around to give it a try from time to time!

Not being very familiar with the bike market in the US, I have to ask though when was the last period that bikes were for transportation there. It seems to me that basically since the end of WW2 the US has been purely a car country, and bikes have been for fun and sports with some small exceptions.

Henry Ford's Model T started the trend away from motorcycles as basic transportation in the US long before the start of WWII. Although some urban areas and especially college towns may have motorcycles (mostly scooters) used as daily transport, Americans usually own bikes strictly for recreation.

[ChipBeck_imp]

That is a real pity. I really liked Buells, and was set to buy an XB12S. However, just then my company moved me to Singapore, and so when I got there unfortunately there was nobody importing them there. When I got back to Switzerland 4 years later I then started looking at the 1125CR instead as I thought they were great with the Rotax engines. Unfortunately it was not to be, because HD decided to shut down Buell before I got the chance to buy it.

There are many of these small bike manufacturers in Europe as well, and they all struggle. Luckily there are still enough enthusiasts around to give it a try from time to time!

Not being very familiar with the bike market in the US, I have to ask though when was the last period that bikes were for transportation there. It seems to me that basically since the end of WW2 the US has been purely a car country, and bikes have been for fun and sports with some small exceptions.

Henrik,

It's been about 90 years in the U.S. since motorcycles were seen as primary transportation. From 1900 to 1920 cars were rare, exotic, and expensive. Motorcycles were much cheaper to buy, own, and operate. They outsold cars by a big margin back then. Henry Ford was constantly improving assembly line efficiency and by the mid 1920's he was selling Model T's for $260, cheaper than any motorcycle. The vast majority of Americans chose cars, motorcycle sales plunged, and it's been that way ever since. Cheers.

Chip

[JustPassinThru_imp]

That is a real pity. I really liked Buells, and was set to buy an XB12S. However, just then my company moved me to Singapore, and so when I got there unfortunately there was nobody importing them there. When I got back to Switzerland 4 years later I then started looking at the 1125CR instead as I thought they were great with the Rotax engines. Unfortunately it was not to be, because HD decided to shut down Buell before I got the chance to buy it.

There are many of these small bike manufacturers in Europe as well, and they all struggle. Luckily there are still enough enthusiasts around to give it a try from time to time!

Not being very familiar with the bike market in the US, I have to ask though when was the last period that bikes were for transportation there. It seems to me that basically since the end of WW2 the US has been purely a car country, and bikes have been for fun and sports with some small exceptions.

Henrik,

It's been about 90 years in the U.S. since motorcycles were seen as primary transportation. From 1900 to 1920 cars were rare, exotic, and expensive. Motorcycles were much cheaper to buy, own, and operate. They outsold cars by a big margin back then. Henry Ford was constantly improving assembly line efficiency and by the mid 1920's he was selling Model T's for $260, cheaper than any motorcycle. The vast majority of Americans chose cars, motorcycle sales plunged, and it's been that way ever since. Cheers.

Chip

Henrik,

It's been about 90 years in the U.S. since motorcycles were seen as primary transportation. From 1900 to 1920 cars were rare, exotic, and expensive. Motorcycles were much cheaper to buy, own, and operate. They outsold cars by a big margin back then. Henry Ford was constantly improving assembly line efficiency and by the mid 1920's he was selling Model T's for $260, cheaper than any motorcycle. The vast majority of Americans chose cars, motorcycle sales plunged, and it's been that way ever since. Cheers.

Chip
It has never been about the cost to buy - as you note, the Model T undercut every kind of transportation except maybe bicycles. Even today...you can get a good used car for the price of a CB1100.

In Europe it's the population density and taxes...some of it makes sense, some not; that's fodder for another screed. In a place like NYC, motorcycles make sense - IF the owner has a secure place to park it. Crime is a consideration.

Were the cycle manufacturers shooting for cheap transportation, not for performance or image (Harley, Indian and others) they would probably have more models like the PCX scooter (in price) - no frills transportation, perhaps made in third-world plants (I believe the PCX is made in Thailand) and sold on price and depending on mfgr, quality.

That hasn't happened yet. I hope it doesn't - because while a nation of motorcyclists sounds fun, the pressures and compromises that would GET us there, would change our world, for the worse, on so many other levels.

[Henrik_imp]

That is what I thought, which is why I was a bit confused when JustPassinThru refered to "when motorcycles moved from being transportation to recreation...". My impression when visiting the US on a number of occasions has been that it has always been a car culture and bikes are just "for fun". Certainly here in Europe they are much more a transportation device, something that can be seen in pretty much any major city in Europe south of Scandinavia.

[JustPassinThru_imp]

That is what I thought, which is why I was a bit confused when JustPassinThru refered to "when motorcycles moved from being transportation to recreation...". My impression when visiting the US on a number of occasions has been that it has always been a car culture and bikes are just "for fun". Certainly here in Europe they are much more a transportation device, something that can be seen in pretty much any major city in Europe south of Scandinavia.

Henrik:

I don't know if you've ever been to the States. The thing Europeans notice first about it is how spread out it is - a trip from Geneva to Gdansk, Poland is 1646 kilometers. That's about the distance I am, in Montana, from Chicago.

A trip from the East Coast to the West Coast can be over twice that - and that's with the shortest distance.

Also, our population density is much less. Much of the land east of the Mississippi is farmland. Much of the West is either mining or government-owned forest preserves. A lot more is desert and of little value.

In Europe, there is a lot of mass-transit options, partly, because there are many PATRONS for mass transit. In America there is not. The number of persons traveling cross-country is much fewer, per route-mile, than you have on European railways.

And much of that cross-country transit is discretionary - if somehow cars were outlawed or made inconvenient, large numbers would just opt to stay home. The American tourism industry never really took off until after WWII- with the universality of the personal auto. Few people took a train trip for a holiday - while there were parlor sleeping cars for well-heeled travelers, most folks couldn't afford it (then as well as now; Amtrak sleeper-parlor rooms are very expensive).

Our culture and habits and transportation layout came from this; from these wide-open spaces and lighter population density.

[Henrik_imp]

I have visited the US many times over the past 40 years, and although most of my visits have been confined to major cities like New York, Boston, Chicago, Miami, Houston, Dallas, Los Angeles and mostly San Francisco (I used to work for Bank of America when it was a San Francisco bank), I have also done some extensive road trips in the East (New England), South East (Florida to New Orleans) as well as the West. However, I have never actually lived there and so my view has always been that of a foreigner, and so do not assume to know how everything works. What you say nevertheless fully confirms my impressions and understanding of your country.

[Elipten_imp]

Every time I've meet German tourists out in the western states visiting national parks, they are just in shock about the distances and emptiness.


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