Interesting conversation re: demographics

[Houtman_imp]

If I want fish I go to Red Lobster !

[Stichill_imp]

pdedse, you're in a good boating situation and you've beaten the game by buying a quality used boat. For me, a decent fresh lake water suitable for powerboating is 1-1/2 hours away. I can get onto the Ohio River in about 45 minutes, but it's a just big muddy ditch with who knows what floating in it. I like to go for a swim when the weather is warm. Boating is similar to motorcycling in that you have a sense of freedom to go where you want and linger where you want. It's a different experience than being in a car...it's that sense of outdoor motion. Boats lean into a turn just like a motorcycle. There's nothing better than being out on a dead flat calm lake in the morning or evening and just cutting arcs through the still water.

Oh, I don't know, being on a yacht tacking into a steady 15 knot breeze would beat it. But, that's just my opinion.

Oh, I don't know, being on a yacht tacking into a steady 15 knot breeze would beat it. But, that's just my opinion.
I guess I was referring to the zenith of the power boating avocation. Every leisure pursuit has that pinnacle moment that you strive for...

Well this conversation has taken an interesting turn.

For me no boating based event can top floating down a river while surrounded by a forest and being outnumbered by bald eagles (although many prefer the scenery offered by the rivers nestled within the arid canyons out east of here). My one man inflatable pontoon boat fits in the back of my truck and gets me to places that I simply can't access by foot. For me, spending a day on/in the river spey fishing (fly fishing) for steelhead is perhaps the ultimate activity. If I had to choose between fishing and motorcycling, well I suppose I already have as nothing has eaten into my motorcycling time more than fly fishing has. Ironically I took up fishing late in life, starting not too long before launching this forum.

However, to keep things somewhat on point, I can draw a few parallels between spey fishing and motorcycling. Key amongst them would be these things:
- Both are capable of offering intense moments fueled by adrenaline (be it pushing your riding skills on a challenging road (or dodging motorists in traffic) or running rapids between spots where you can stop to fish).
- Both require that you deal with certain "discomforts" (exposure to the elements, donning lots of gear, etc. — when it comes to riding and fishing, I've done both year round).
- Both activities demand that you truly engage yourself in the process (couch potatoes need not apply).
- Most people that I've met, currently know or might meet in the future will never engage in either pursuit.

Well said, Guth. Truth is, great experiences require at least some modicum of effort to prepare for and execute, not the least of which is hours of education and skills training, regardless of the pursuit.

[Nortoon_imp]

Today I rode over to the business I retired from, to see all the folks, and got into an interesting conversation with one of the long time employees. His wife is in the Motorhome business in that she produces a magazine for an association of motorhome people. I asked him if they were seeing a down turn in motorhome sales, because the motorcycle industry was experiencing a crisis as motorcyclists are aging out and not buying as many bikes. I expected the same thing to be happening in that industry as well.

To my suprise he said the motorhome business, was actually experiencing a boom these days.

It made me think, are a lot of the older riders switching from riding motorcycles to touring by motorcoach? It sorta makes sense. If you no longer have the strength and stabilty to ride a bike, does a motorhome fill that itch to go someplace.

He said if you think guys farkle out Goldwings and Harleys you should see how they farkle out a motorhome.

Apparently millenials are not going into the motorhome group so they are not factoring into the growth, so the increasing numbers are coming from somewhere.. Are they coming from US?

As discussed boating and RVs can be expensive, but people still are willing to spend the money. I always see RVs while riding, and every lake I see is circled with boats parked at docks in front of cottages. And there are a lot of lakes in southeast Ontario. Cottages themselves are more like summer homes now and are very expensive, especially since they are only used on weekends during the summer. Motorcycles although somewhat less expensive, are far more dangerous than boating, RVs or cottages.

So why are people willing to spend the money or take the risk? To get out there! We spend most of our lives stuck in the house, school, office and weekday traffic. Boring! That's why most ads for bikes, SUVs and RVs talk about freedom and adventure. Yes most of these pastimes will not live up to the TV ads, but it's better than sitting at home month after month watching crappy TV on the boob tube.

Here in the 50s there was only 1 motorcycle shop. They sold Harley Davidsons to the Police, and Triumphs and BSAs to the public. Motorcycles were few and far between.

When I bought my first motorcycle in 1966 that shop was gone, but four more had taken their place. There were more motorcyclists, but most of us knew each other. A long time salesperson who worked in that defunct shop told me that motorcycles sales always peaked and waned. In the 60s and 70s the wave was 6 years on and 6 years off. I worked one year at one large shop that was not aware up and downs of the market. It was filled with bikes and merchandise, and also sold snowmobiles in the winter. It failed because could not sell the volume of bikes and merchandise when sales slumped.

In the 80s motorcycles were very popular and there was lots to chose from. My motorcycle touring club had 150 members. But our largest Honda dealer failed because of the massive amount of trade-ins they had taken in trying to move new inventory.

Now there is a far greater number of motorcyclists and motor cycle shops in this area. Despite the downturn in motorcycle sales, none of them have failed. Some of the cruiser clubs in the area are huge. Despite the slow sales there are lots of people riding expensive Harleys, Goldwings and BMWs.

So I don't think that motorcycling is doomed. It may be in a slump, but will probably rebound now that smaller and more affordable motorcycles are being made to encourage new comers to the sport. I probably would not have returned if a Triumph or Honda with a base price of $13,000 were my only choices. However a Honda CB500XA with an $6800 out the door price let me ride and get out there.

[Cormanus]

pdedse, you're in a good boating situation and you've beaten the game by buying a quality used boat. For me, a decent fresh lake water suitable for powerboating is 1-1/2 hours away. I can get onto the Ohio River in about 45 minutes, but it's a just big muddy ditch with who knows what floating in it. I like to go for a swim when the weather is warm. Boating is similar to motorcycling in that you have a sense of freedom to go where you want and linger where you want. It's a different experience than being in a car...it's that sense of outdoor motion. Boats lean into a turn just like a motorcycle. There's nothing better than being out on a dead flat calm lake in the morning or evening and just cutting arcs through the still water.

Oh, I don't know, being on a yacht tacking into a steady 15 knot breeze would beat it. But, that's just my opinion.

Oh, I don't know, being on a yacht tacking into a steady 15 knot breeze would beat it. But, that's just my opinion.
I guess I was referring to the zenith of the power boating avocation. Every leisure pursuit has that pinnacle moment that you strive for...

Well this conversation has taken an interesting turn.

For me no boating based event can top floating down a river while surrounded by a forest and being outnumbered by bald eagles (although many prefer the scenery offered by the rivers nestled within the arid canyons out east of here). My one man inflatable pontoon boat fits in the back of my truck and gets me to places that I simply can't access by foot. For me, spending a day on/in the river spey fishing (fly fishing) for steelhead is perhaps the ultimate activity. If I had to choose between fishing and motorcycling, well I suppose I already have as nothing has eaten into my motorcycling time more than fly fishing has. Ironically I took up fishing late in life, starting not too long before launching this forum.

However, to keep things somewhat on point, I can draw a few parallels between spey fishing and motorcycling. Key amongst them would be these things:
- Both are capable of offering intense moments fueled by adrenaline (be it pushing your riding skills on a challenging road (or dodging motorists in traffic) or running rapids between spots where you can stop to fish).
- Both require that you deal with certain "discomforts" (exposure to the elements, donning lots of gear, etc. — when it comes to riding and fishing, I've done both year round).
- Both activities demand that you truly engage yourself in the process (couch potatoes need not apply).
- Most people that I've met, currently know or might meet in the future will never engage in either pursuit.

Well said, Guth. Truth is, great experiences require at least some modicum of effort to prepare for and execute, not the least of which is hours of education and skills training, regardless of the pursuit.

Oh, I don't know, being on a yacht tacking into a steady 15 knot breeze would beat it. But, that's just my opinion.
I guess I was referring to the zenith of the power boating avocation. Every leisure pursuit has that pinnacle moment that you strive for...
On reflection, I worded my earlier post poorly. I wasn't at all trying to take away your pleasure in power boating. You've pinged it nicely.

Returning to the original discussion ... I suppose it's possible that a decline in motorcycle sales can be linked to an increase in motorhome sales, but I can't see it myself. Surely motorhome sales reflect a large population bulge of affluent people in reasonable health casting around for things to do in their retirement. They can't necessarily afford the expense of extended overseas travel, but the opportunity of seeing large tracts of their home country is very attractive. That's particularly the case, I suspect, in large countries like the USA, Canada and Australia. Europeans probably have a similar view, although they get to be more international about it and travel to various adjacent countries.

Nortoon is quite right: ".. it's better than sitting at home month after month watching crappy TV on the boob tube."

Some of those people will have been riders, but it's hard to see a committed rider giving it up for an RV. They might leave the bike at home and have a break while they go off RV-ing with their dearly belovéd. Or, if the the RV is big enough, they may strap it to the back to use while they're stopped somewhere.

I'd like to be around long enough to see whether the boomers' fascination with RVs is picked up by following generations.

[RockHop_imp]

pdedse, you're in a good boating situation and you've beaten the game by buying a quality used boat. For me, a decent fresh lake water suitable for powerboating is 1-1/2 hours away. I can get onto the Ohio River in about 45 minutes, but it's a just big muddy ditch with who knows what floating in it. I like to go for a swim when the weather is warm. Boating is similar to motorcycling in that you have a sense of freedom to go where you want and linger where you want. It's a different experience than being in a car...it's that sense of outdoor motion. Boats lean into a turn just like a motorcycle. There's nothing better than being out on a dead flat calm lake in the morning or evening and just cutting arcs through the still water.

Oh, I don't know, being on a yacht tacking into a steady 15 knot breeze would beat it. But, that's just my opinion.

Oh, I don't know, being on a yacht tacking into a steady 15 knot breeze would beat it. But, that's just my opinion.
I guess I was referring to the zenith of the power boating avocation. Every leisure pursuit has that pinnacle moment that you strive for...

Well this conversation has taken an interesting turn.

For me no boating based event can top floating down a river while surrounded by a forest and being outnumbered by bald eagles (although many prefer the scenery offered by the rivers nestled within the arid canyons out east of here). My one man inflatable pontoon boat fits in the back of my truck and gets me to places that I simply can't access by foot. For me, spending a day on/in the river spey fishing (fly fishing) for steelhead is perhaps the ultimate activity. If I had to choose between fishing and motorcycling, well I suppose I already have as nothing has eaten into my motorcycling time more than fly fishing has. Ironically I took up fishing late in life, starting not too long before launching this forum.

However, to keep things somewhat on point, I can draw a few parallels between spey fishing and motorcycling. Key amongst them would be these things:
- Both are capable of offering intense moments fueled by adrenaline (be it pushing your riding skills on a challenging road (or dodging motorists in traffic) or running rapids between spots where you can stop to fish).
- Both require that you deal with certain "discomforts" (exposure to the elements, donning lots of gear, etc. — when it comes to riding and fishing, I've done both year round).
- Both activities demand that you truly engage yourself in the process (couch potatoes need not apply).
- Most people that I've met, currently know or might meet in the future will never engage in either pursuit.

Well said, Guth. Truth is, great experiences require at least some modicum of effort to prepare for and execute, not the least of which is hours of education and skills training, regardless of the pursuit.

Oh, I don't know, being on a yacht tacking into a steady 15 knot breeze would beat it. But, that's just my opinion.
I guess I was referring to the zenith of the power boating avocation. Every leisure pursuit has that pinnacle moment that you strive for...
On reflection, I worded my earlier post poorly. I wasn't at all trying to take away your pleasure in power boating. You've pinged it nicely.

Returning to the original discussion ... I suppose it's possible that a decline in motorcycle sales can be linked to an increase in motorhome sales, but I can't see it myself. Surely motorhome sales reflect a large population bulge of affluent people in reasonable health casting around for things to do in their retirement. They can't necessarily afford the expense of extended overseas travel, but the opportunity of seeing large tracts of their home country is very attractive. That's particularly the case, I suspect, in large countries like the USA, Canada and Australia. Europeans probably have a similar view, although they get to be more international about it and travel to various adjacent countries.

Nortoon is quite right: ".. it's better than sitting at home month after month watching crappy TV on the boob tube."

Some of those people will have been riders, but it's hard to see a committed rider giving it up for an RV. They might leave the bike at home and have a break while they go off RV-ing with their dearly belovéd. Or, if the the RV is big enough, they may strap it to the back to use while they're stopped somewhere.

I'd like to be around long enough to see whether the boomers' fascination with RVs is picked up by following generations.

Congratulations Cormanus, you may have made it! Read on ...

Today I rode over to the business I retired from, to see all the folks, and got into an interesting conversation with one of the long time employees. His wife is in the Motorhome business in that she produces a magazine for an association of motorhome people. I asked him if they were seeing a down turn in motorhome sales, because the motorcycle industry was experiencing a crisis as motorcyclists are aging out and not buying as many bikes. I expected the same thing to be happening in that industry as well.

To my suprise he said the motorhome business, was actually experiencing a boom these days.

It made me think, are a lot of the older riders switching from riding motorcycles to touring by motorcoach? It sorta makes sense. If you no longer have the strength and stabilty to ride a bike, does a motorhome fill that itch to go someplace.

He said if you think guys farkle out Goldwings and Harleys you should see how they farkle out a motorhome.

Apparently millenials are not going into the motorhome group so they are not factoring into the growth, so the increasing numbers are coming from somewhere.. Are they coming from US?

Read a recent article based on the RV Industry Association data that claimed over half of new RV sales were to buyers under 45. The caveat is that most of these are campers and travel trailers under $40k. It appears millennials are buying RVs, but they just can't afford the cost of a motorhome.

Families camping at the lake in campers/trailers and older couples touring the country in motorhomes is clearly not the same, so it is hard to say how many of these entry level RV buyers will eventually buy motorhomes. In answer to Ferret's question, I suspect the growth in motorhome sales is more likely from current RV owners moving up as they acquire more disposable income than from motorcyclists moving over to motorhomes.

Of course it could be neither and simply the wave of retired boomers looking for something to do.

[Stichill_imp]

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