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Harley does not even have to sell the bikes to make money. It seems that they have been loosing their hard core customer for many years now. The demographics speak for the customer that's getting too old or worse, passed on, that was attracted to the models that they put out.
I worked in the equipment business for many years, and almost fell off my chair one day in a meeting when the Marketing Director announced that we did not need to sell new units because the parts business was more profitable and had a 100 year backlog of installed population. It seems that manufacturers are trading on this to carry them through the short gain that the stockholders demand......
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Interesting factoid Rex. That may explain why some <Honda> parts have gone up dramatically in price. Not sure if Covid had an influence, but that needs to be considered too I suppose.
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(02-24-2021, 11:26 AM)Roper_imp Wrote: (02-24-2021, 02:36 AM)Frulk_imp Wrote: I’ve been vacillating on purchasing an ADV bike for a number of years now. Ever since I sold the KLR. My primary concern is weight followed by enough power to pass. Secondary to that is enough room on the bike to carry about 40 pounds of camping gear, food, etc as I would remote camp at the destinations w/o developed campgrounds . I’d ride it mostly on backroad 2 lane blacktop to well maintained gravel roads to fishing spots in the mountain west.
My first choice would prob be the Moto Guzzi V85TT. It appears to make enough power and is close to the weight I prefer. A plus is supposedly seating position which leads to a low center of gravity. However, that’s a non starter based on the abysmal dealer network in the USA. Shame really as I’m drawn to the bike and price is very reasonable. Plus it seems to be somewhat road biased.
My second choice would be the Afrika Twin. Weight and power are right where I want them but at the time I was shopping more seriously than I currently am they didn’t have the tubeless rims. I know that’s been resolved. Plus the DCT is something I think I could really get into. While Honda does have a solid dealership network Honda USA(at least where I live) has absolutely zero understanding of the concept of customer service and how it plays into a long term relationships with their bottom line. I just will not buy a bike from a dealership that takes the approach of ‘one and done’.
That brings me to the Dirt Glide. Prob heavier than what I want but if center of gravity/ seating is low enough that could mitigate some of my concern about low speed handling on loose road surfaces. At 140/145 HP the power for passing is there in spades. Out the door cost will prob be close to $8-10k above the Guzzi and at that point there needs to be some serious soul searching. No doubt the dealer network will be there with follow through warranty support if needed.
I like the mid sized ADV bikes coming out and agree that the big ADV bike ground has been plowed and exploited by other manufacturers to maybe the max extent. Good observation in a previous comment that Harley may be 10 years late to the party. But, they HAVE arrived and now we’re going to see if they can dance.
I’ve yet to see the Yamaha 700 in the flesh but think it may not fill the bill for what I’m looking for which is a planted feel while doing 80mph through open plains with almost daily strong crosswinds for 200+ miles to my destinations.
Spring is around the corner and I’m itching to put the drama of 2020 behind me. A new ADV bike purchase may be the ticket to assist in that mental endeavor.
I kinda like the design of the HD Pan America, especially the Special version in orange and white. Looks like nothing else in the ADV market, that's for sure. I know that a lot of people hate the front end design. I actually like it a lot better than a "beak."
I have never owned a Harley. I probably never will. That said, the guys at Timpanogos HD in Lindon, UT are the nicest bunch of motorcycle guys I have ever met. Even when I've gone to just look at the bikes, they were incredible to talk with. The dudes at Legend Motorcycles in Springville are just as cool. It's technically a motorcycle museum (and an awesome one at that), but they have a Harley customization shop on the back. I almost bought a Sportster which they had made into a scrambler, just because the guys were so amazing to everyone who came in.
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Looks like Harley may have a winner on their hands with the Pan America:
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Good for HD... I like the steps they are taking to try to move forward. I absolutely loved my Sportster and didn't have real interest in any other bike they produced. I suspect they might be a bit late in the game for certain genres of bikes, but it's good to see them exploring.
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New CEO Jochen Zeitz seems to be a good guy who is making the changes needed.
They may have missed just a little with the Pan America in that the mid-size ADV segment is the hot trend right now, i.e. 450-ish lbs. with 750-ish engine size.
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(04-26-2021, 06:15 AM)Stichill_imp Wrote: New CEO Jochen Zeitz seems to be a good guy who is making the changes needed.
They may have missed just a little with the Pan America in that the mid-size ADV segment is the hot trend right now, i.e. 450-ish lbs. with 750-ish engine size.
That is very true. Even Honda is struggling to address that market, but there is much speculation that they will have something very soon.
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(04-26-2021, 05:13 AM)pdedse_imp Wrote: Good for HD... I like the steps they are taking to try to move forward. I absolutely loved my Sportster and didn't have real interest in any other bike they produced. I suspect they might be a bit late in the game for certain genres of bikes, but it's good to see them exploring.
I have yet to own a Harley in 50 years of riding. I almost bought a 1200 Custom some years back, but I did not fit on the bike. I am 6'3" and weighed about 210 at the time. (Slim 188 now) My legs with a 36" inseam were even cramped on a Gold Wing. Now I may want to buy one before my riding days are over and I really like the Dyna Wide Glide. And what does Harley do? They make no more Wide Glides.
Looking at used ones now with 4k miles of less, and there are lots that fit that criteria. What happened? Wide Glides selling with 3500 miles on them. I think all the wanna be bikers out there that thought, "I buy a Harley and I am cool". Now realize motorcycling involves a lot more that 'looking' the part. I fear for the market in general. I posted on this strand some of the reasons for this. I just hope it goes back up.
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Harley stunned everyone with the competitive pricing but to manufacture it at home AND be competitively priced is something else.
Unfortunately Harley are going to have a very hard time in Europe. Import duties were 6%, in the Trump period they increased to 25% and now under Biden the EU want to up the import duty to an eye watering 56% from June this year. One suspects this might be a bluff from the EU in search of tariff drops the other way? I think it al comes down to the Boeing-Airbus spat in which the US accuse the EU of subsidising Airbus unfairly (whether they do or not I have no idea).
I think the Pan America will sell very well, lots of "Biker Types" testing them in the US now and getting behind the new Harley, being enthusiastic for the brand rather than negative.
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Meanwhile the United States import tariff on European motorcycles is 1.2% for engines of up to 800cc and 2.4% for larger engines.
