The future of Harley-Davidson

[Bheezy27403_imp]

Hope none of those actor boys get burnt up on one of those things....maybe.

[the Ferret]

Strange looking headlight nacelle

[GoldOxide_imp]

HD Pan America update from NYC:

[url=https://www.rideapart.com/articles/386663/weekend-wtf-harley-davidson-under-glass/]Weekend WTF: Harley-Davidson Under Glass

[GoldOxide_imp]

I think even the press is tired of their bs.

Probably true.

- - -

I was actually beginning to think that the display prototype models were glued together.

[ChipBeck_imp]

Gentlemen,

I've got 5 Honda's and 2 Harley Davidson's in my garage. They are all fantastic motorcycles that are enjoyable in different ways. Here in AZ I see as many Honda/Yamaha/Suzuki/ Kawasaki sport bike riders high speed lane splitting while wearing no helmet, no gloves, and tennis shoes with a screaming loud aftermarket exaust as I see objectionable HD riders with loud pipes. At least Mick has considerable experience with HD and gives an informed decision. I think a few here who have never even ridden one are sounding off without the benefit of experiencing how cool they are to ride. HD has bikes that are way smoother than my CB1100 on the highway, and they have bikes that aren't. All heavyweight motorcycle sales are way down since 2007 and HD's customer demographic has gotten too old. Young kids are not nearly as interested in cars, motorcycles, airplanes, and guns/hunting as my generation was and there isn't anything HD can do about that. I don't think HD is going anywhere and they'll still be building and selling motorcycles long after we are all dead. In the late 70's HD was on it's death bed but they came back and smashed the Japanese makers in heavyweight motorcycle sales like a bug. I really liked the new Gold Wing when I took one for a ride, but the new Electra Glide was more fun to ride so when I sell my Road Kind I'll buy another new HD. It's all good gentlemen. You don't have to like the bikes but cheering on the demise of a century old American motorcycle maker is counterproductive IMO. At least, that's my take on it.

Chip

[the Ferret]

Chip, the hill (mountain)I see for Harley Davidson is ignoring other aspects of the market to concentrate on their "core" customers ie old guys on cruisers for so many years. There has been a generation or two asking Harley to build something other than a cruiser..an ADV, a Sport tourer, a standard. More hp, less weight, better handling more amenities and better ergos only to be told by Harley they are just not going to do it, has alienated at least 2 generations of riders. Now they are trying with the Pan Am and the Bronx. Too little too late? Only time will tell. Yes Harley made a comeback once. Can they do it again? It' going to be a lot tougher than it was last time. Last time they only had to beat the Japanese at making a cruiser. And they had a market place that was "Pro American". Now they have to compete across the board as far as models go to a market that has decidedly changed to a world market. I'm afraid as they face quarterly decline after quarterly decline they will eventually be a shell of their former self. And with Indian producing new competing models that are arguably better than the originals, it does not bode well. Tough incline.

You, near my age, and about done buying bikes are decidedly pro Harley due to your upbringing. My son at 40 with quite a few bikes to buy in his career yet is decidedly not.

To me noise is noise whether it's an I-4 with a pipe or a V2 with a pipe. Personally, I wish it were totally illegal to mess with stock exhausts that meet a certain decibel level. Open pipes on any bike, to me, is just plain obnoxious.

[GoldOxide_imp]

Hmm, I do hope HD has success with new bikes like the Pan America. Marketing might is on their side. The question always seems: Do they have it in them to properly leverage it with innovative products?

[bioman_imp]

The Pan Am and the Bronx will be very fine motorbikes. But selling them will be a challenge. Both the ADV market and the naked streetbike market are very crowded, full with other "very fine" bikes. These other bikes (Japanese & European) will most likely be significantly cheaper, have a excellent reputation for reliability, have a giant aftermarket, and an acceptable-to-good dealership distribution (except Moto Guzzi ). An other important problem with HD is their current clientele. I don't see the average current HD rider switch to a Bronx or Pan Am. So that means that HD will have to find buyers who are new to HD. And that's going to be very difficult.

[GoldOxide_imp]

(+1) All excellent points bioman.

[ChipBeck_imp]

Chip, the hill (mountain)I see for Harley Davidson is ignoring other aspects of the market to concentrate on their "core" customers ie old guys on cruisers for so many years. There has been a generation or two asking Harley to build something other than a cruiser..an ADV, a Sport tourer, a standard. More hp, less weight, better handling more amenities and better ergos only to be told by Harley they are just not going to do it, has alienated at least 2 generations of riders. Now they are trying with the Pan Am and the Bronx. Too little too late? Only time will tell. Yes Harley made a comeback once. Can they do it again? It' going to be a lot tougher than it was last time. Last time they only had to beat the Japanese at making a cruiser. And they had a market place that was "Pro American". Now they have to compete across the board as far as models go to a market that has decidedly changed to a world market. I'm afraid as they face quarterly decline after quarterly decline they will eventually be a shell of their former self. And with Indian producing new competing models that are arguably better than the originals, it does not bode well. Tough incline.

You, near my age, and about done buying bikes are decidedly pro Harley due to your upbringing. My son at 40 with quite a few bikes to buy in his career yet is decidedly not.

To me noise is noise whether it's an I-4 with a pipe or a V2 with a pipe. Personally, I wish it were totally illegal to mess with stock exhausts that meet a certain decibel level. Open pipes on any bike, to me, is just plain obnoxious.

Mick,

Unfortunately you nailed it here. As I consider my next street and dirt bikes I don't think of them as my "next" bikes. I think of them as my "last" bikes. Depressing but that's life. And my son, now 26, rides a Ducati 796. The bike in my garage he and his friends are drawn to is the Sportster 48 because it looks cool but it's not a good "only bike" (then again, either is that 796). As a General Motors dealer for decades I watched the demographic of Cadillac, Mercury, Oldsmobile, and Buick get so old that their core buyers would all be dead in 15 years. Cadillac is the only brand that was able to get cool and younger again with rappers and hip-hop artists driving them. The others gave it a weak try before dying.

GM would have gone bankrupt 20 years earlier without their strong customer and dealer base. That momentum kept them going long after they should have died. HD has that same advantage today giving them time to figure it out. I hope they do.

Chip