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(10-11-2022, 03:57 AM)misterprofessionality_imp Wrote: (10-11-2022, 03:46 AM)GoldOxide_imp Wrote: (10-11-2022, 03:37 AM)peterbaron_imp Wrote: (10-11-2022, 03:29 AM)GoldOxide_imp Wrote: (10-11-2022, 02:54 AM)peterbaron_imp Wrote: (10-11-2022, 02:13 AM)GoldOxide_imp Wrote: I am able to ride all the Honda DCTs I had as well as all my classic clutch-based motorcycles at slow speeds. The rider must ultimately understand their machine and control it.
In terms of "jerkiness", Honda is currently doing recalls with clutch-based motorcycles (several models) and model year 202x DCT-based models for an ECU firmware update to address this. This had everything to do with cable-free throttle management whether or not it was manual clutch control or DCT-based.
Electric motorcycles will be perfected to meet a variety of riding preferences. It is all motion control system engineering. The customer will just continuously feedback their requirements to improve the product.
Thank you and finally 
Gonna wait patently and see if any long term improvement ...or it will need a dual clutch pack replacement..++ ?
Honda is not keen and very stubborn to admit malfunctions...just saying.
Thank you and finally
Gonna wait patently and see if any long term improvement ...or it will need a dual clutch pack replacement..++ ?
Honda is not keen and very stubborn to admit malfunctions...just saying.
[url=http://cb1100forum.com/forum/member.php?action=profile&uid=3454]PB - not sure if you read it well, but Honda is having issues with late model ECU firmware - whether on manual or DCT bikes. It is about throttle management. Gearbox is not relevant. In fact, some manual gearbox owners are afraid of their cable-free throttle.
In terms of DCT durability, some owners in Germany are reporting over 400,000 kms usage without issue.
(10-11-2022, 03:17 AM)pekingduck_imp Wrote: When the throttle is let off on a DCT, as it slows to a walking pace, it will suddenly disengage the engine braking by disengaging the clutch. It's this deficiency that has to be compensated for. You have to use the brake, usually the rear brake, just as you're almost ready to put your foot down. A left-side brake lever would help in this case, if you could un-learn normal clutch response.
There is no "sudden" disengagement. You are thinking maybe CVT scooter behaviour. In addition, if you are not using the rear brake to modulate a smooth stop on any motorcycle, then be careful.
Finally, I have not experienced nor read about any experienced rider "unlearning" clutch management. If people are suggesting this, maybe they should re-evaluate their own riding abilities and the safety of others on public roads.
Thank you and finally
Gonna wait patently and see if any long term improvement ...or it will need a dual clutch pack replacement..++ ?
Honda is not keen and very stubborn to admit malfunctions...just saying.
[url=http://cb1100forum.com/forum/member.php?action=profile&uid=3454]PB - not sure if you read it well, but Honda is having issues with late model ECU firmware - whether on manual or DCT bikes. It is about throttle management. Gearbox is not relevant. In fact, some manual gearbox owners are afraid of their cable-free throttle.
In terms of DCT durability, some owners in Germany are reporting over 400,000 kms usage without issue.
Will wait anyhow.
Wait for what [url=http://cb1100forum.com/forum/member.php?action=profile&uid=3454]PB? An electric motorcycle like the Zero SR/F?
Cost of entry seems prohibitive to most riders.
All else is time-testing technology that will eventually be legislated out.
That won't be true forever. I think the EV Bike market as a whole is just holding its breath for the big 4 to enter the market. as soon as they do it's going to be EVs everywhere.
That won't be true forever. I think the EV Bike market as a whole is just holding its breath for the big 4 to enter the market. as soon as they do it's going to be EVs everywhere.
Yes, agreed. Infrastructure support is key too. If a swappable battery standard becomes real and successfully adopted, I think you'll see riders having classics and an electric in their garage.
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(10-11-2022, 01:49 AM)GoldOxide_imp Wrote: (10-11-2022, 01:31 AM)The ferret_imp Wrote: Clutches can have purposes, but when you think about it, Honda sells a lot of DCT bikes that don't have manual clutches and I can tell you from experience that they can be ridden in a sporty manner.
The big difference between a DCT and an electric, or a CVT, all without manual clutches is the ability to upshift or downshift with the DCT just like a manual clutch bike with an up and down quickshifter.
An electric is most like a CVT where there is a direct connect power to drivetrain with no interruptions, although the electric is the most direct.
talking about riding an electric in a sporting manner, they race electrics in a MotoGP format, called MotoE.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpSdD4wYEAQ
like MotoGP bikes, once rolling there is no need for a manual clutch
Fantastic. Spectators probably don't need earplugs either.
Fantastic. Spectators probably don't need earplugs either.
Like watching MotoGP on Mute 
(10-11-2022, 04:24 AM)GoldOxide_imp Wrote: (10-11-2022, 03:57 AM)misterprofessionality_imp Wrote: (10-11-2022, 03:46 AM)GoldOxide_imp Wrote: (10-11-2022, 03:37 AM)peterbaron_imp Wrote: (10-11-2022, 03:29 AM)GoldOxide_imp Wrote: (10-11-2022, 02:54 AM)peterbaron_imp Wrote: (10-11-2022, 02:13 AM)GoldOxide_imp Wrote: I am able to ride all the Honda DCTs I had as well as all my classic clutch-based motorcycles at slow speeds. The rider must ultimately understand their machine and control it.
In terms of "jerkiness", Honda is currently doing recalls with clutch-based motorcycles (several models) and model year 202x DCT-based models for an ECU firmware update to address this. This had everything to do with cable-free throttle management whether or not it was manual clutch control or DCT-based.
Electric motorcycles will be perfected to meet a variety of riding preferences. It is all motion control system engineering. The customer will just continuously feedback their requirements to improve the product.
Thank you and finally
Gonna wait patently and see if any long term improvement ...or it will need a dual clutch pack replacement..++ ?
Honda is not keen and very stubborn to admit malfunctions...just saying.
Thank you and finally
Gonna wait patently and see if any long term improvement ...or it will need a dual clutch pack replacement..++ ?
Honda is not keen and very stubborn to admit malfunctions...just saying.
[url=http://cb1100forum.com/forum/member.php?action=profile&uid=3454]PB - not sure if you read it well, but Honda is having issues with late model ECU firmware - whether on manual or DCT bikes. It is about throttle management. Gearbox is not relevant. In fact, some manual gearbox owners are afraid of their cable-free throttle.
In terms of DCT durability, some owners in Germany are reporting over 400,000 kms usage without issue.
(10-11-2022, 03:17 AM)pekingduck_imp Wrote: When the throttle is let off on a DCT, as it slows to a walking pace, it will suddenly disengage the engine braking by disengaging the clutch. It's this deficiency that has to be compensated for. You have to use the brake, usually the rear brake, just as you're almost ready to put your foot down. A left-side brake lever would help in this case, if you could un-learn normal clutch response.
There is no "sudden" disengagement. You are thinking maybe CVT scooter behaviour. In addition, if you are not using the rear brake to modulate a smooth stop on any motorcycle, then be careful.
Finally, I have not experienced nor read about any experienced rider "unlearning" clutch management. If people are suggesting this, maybe they should re-evaluate their own riding abilities and the safety of others on public roads.
Thank you and finally
Gonna wait patently and see if any long term improvement ...or it will need a dual clutch pack replacement..++ ?
Honda is not keen and very stubborn to admit malfunctions...just saying.
[url=http://cb1100forum.com/forum/member.php?action=profile&uid=3454]PB - not sure if you read it well, but Honda is having issues with late model ECU firmware - whether on manual or DCT bikes. It is about throttle management. Gearbox is not relevant. In fact, some manual gearbox owners are afraid of their cable-free throttle.
In terms of DCT durability, some owners in Germany are reporting over 400,000 kms usage without issue.
Will wait anyhow.
Wait for what [url=http://cb1100forum.com/forum/member.php?action=profile&uid=3454]PB? An electric motorcycle like the Zero SR/F?
Cost of entry seems prohibitive to most riders.
All else is time-testing technology that will eventually be legislated out.
That won't be true forever. I think the EV Bike market as a whole is just holding its breath for the big 4 to enter the market. as soon as they do it's going to be EVs everywhere.
That won't be true forever. I think the EV Bike market as a whole is just holding its breath for the big 4 to enter the market. as soon as they do it's going to be EVs everywhere.
Yes, agreed. Infrastructure support is key too. If a swappable battery standard becomes real and successfully adopted, I think you'll see riders having classics and an electric in their garage.
That won't be true forever. I think the EV Bike market as a whole is just holding its breath for the big 4 to enter the market. as soon as they do it's going to be EVs everywhere.
Yes, agreed. Infrastructure support is key too. If a swappable battery standard becomes real and successfully adopted, I think you'll see riders having classics and an electric in their garage.
When I said batteries were the problem that is what I was talking about,. The major 4 aren't going to jump into it real heavy until they can decide on what batteries format they can agree on. They are not going to branch out on their own with battery tech.
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(10-11-2022, 03:46 AM)GoldOxide_imp Wrote: (10-11-2022, 03:37 AM)peterbaron_imp Wrote: (10-11-2022, 03:29 AM)GoldOxide_imp Wrote: (10-11-2022, 02:54 AM)peterbaron_imp Wrote: (10-11-2022, 02:13 AM)GoldOxide_imp Wrote: I am able to ride all the Honda DCTs I had as well as all my classic clutch-based motorcycles at slow speeds. The rider must ultimately understand their machine and control it.
In terms of "jerkiness", Honda is currently doing recalls with clutch-based motorcycles (several models) and model year 202x DCT-based models for an ECU firmware update to address this. This had everything to do with cable-free throttle management whether or not it was manual clutch control or DCT-based.
Electric motorcycles will be perfected to meet a variety of riding preferences. It is all motion control system engineering. The customer will just continuously feedback their requirements to improve the product.
Thank you and finally
Gonna wait patently and see if any long term improvement ...or it will need a dual clutch pack replacement..++ ?
Honda is not keen and very stubborn to admit malfunctions...just saying.
Thank you and finally
Gonna wait patently and see if any long term improvement ...or it will need a dual clutch pack replacement..++ ?
Honda is not keen and very stubborn to admit malfunctions...just saying.
[url=http://cb1100forum.com/forum/member.php?action=profile&uid=3454]PB - not sure if you read it well, but Honda is having issues with late model ECU firmware - whether on manual or DCT bikes. It is about throttle management. Gearbox is not relevant. In fact, some manual gearbox owners are afraid of their cable-free throttle.
In terms of DCT durability, some owners in Germany are reporting over 400,000 kms usage without issue.
(10-11-2022, 03:17 AM)pekingduck_imp Wrote: When the throttle is let off on a DCT, as it slows to a walking pace, it will suddenly disengage the engine braking by disengaging the clutch. It's this deficiency that has to be compensated for. You have to use the brake, usually the rear brake, just as you're almost ready to put your foot down. A left-side brake lever would help in this case, if you could un-learn normal clutch response.
There is no "sudden" disengagement. You are thinking maybe CVT scooter behaviour. In addition, if you are not using the rear brake to modulate a smooth stop on any motorcycle, then be careful.
Finally, I have not experienced nor read about any experienced rider "unlearning" clutch management. If people are suggesting this, maybe they should re-evaluate their own riding abilities and the safety of others on public roads.
Thank you and finally
Gonna wait patently and see if any long term improvement ...or it will need a dual clutch pack replacement..++ ?
Honda is not keen and very stubborn to admit malfunctions...just saying.
[url=http://cb1100forum.com/forum/member.php?action=profile&uid=3454]PB - not sure if you read it well, but Honda is having issues with late model ECU firmware - whether on manual or DCT bikes. It is about throttle management. Gearbox is not relevant. In fact, some manual gearbox owners are afraid of their cable-free throttle.
In terms of DCT durability, some owners in Germany are reporting over 400,000 kms usage without issue.
Will wait anyhow.
Wait for what [url=http://cb1100forum.com/forum/member.php?action=profile&uid=3454]PB? An electric motorcycle like the Zero SR/F?
Cost of entry seems prohibitive to most riders.
All else is time-testing technology that will eventually be legislated out.
Wait for what [url=http://cb1100forum.com/forum/member.php?action=profile&uid=3454]PB? An electric motorcycle like the Zero SR/F?
....
...waiting for the next 2023 season as this one is soon ending for me.
Not interested in e-bikes, even if it were given to me for free.
Posts: 12,677
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(10-11-2022, 04:35 AM)peterbaron_imp Wrote: (10-11-2022, 03:46 AM)GoldOxide_imp Wrote: (10-11-2022, 03:37 AM)peterbaron_imp Wrote: (10-11-2022, 03:29 AM)GoldOxide_imp Wrote: (10-11-2022, 02:54 AM)peterbaron_imp Wrote: (10-11-2022, 02:13 AM)GoldOxide_imp Wrote: I am able to ride all the Honda DCTs I had as well as all my classic clutch-based motorcycles at slow speeds. The rider must ultimately understand their machine and control it.
In terms of "jerkiness", Honda is currently doing recalls with clutch-based motorcycles (several models) and model year 202x DCT-based models for an ECU firmware update to address this. This had everything to do with cable-free throttle management whether or not it was manual clutch control or DCT-based.
Electric motorcycles will be perfected to meet a variety of riding preferences. It is all motion control system engineering. The customer will just continuously feedback their requirements to improve the product.
Thank you and finally
Gonna wait patently and see if any long term improvement ...or it will need a dual clutch pack replacement..++ ?
Honda is not keen and very stubborn to admit malfunctions...just saying.
Thank you and finally
Gonna wait patently and see if any long term improvement ...or it will need a dual clutch pack replacement..++ ?
Honda is not keen and very stubborn to admit malfunctions...just saying.
[url=http://cb1100forum.com/forum/member.php?action=profile&uid=3454]PB - not sure if you read it well, but Honda is having issues with late model ECU firmware - whether on manual or DCT bikes. It is about throttle management. Gearbox is not relevant. In fact, some manual gearbox owners are afraid of their cable-free throttle.
In terms of DCT durability, some owners in Germany are reporting over 400,000 kms usage without issue.
(10-11-2022, 03:17 AM)pekingduck_imp Wrote: When the throttle is let off on a DCT, as it slows to a walking pace, it will suddenly disengage the engine braking by disengaging the clutch. It's this deficiency that has to be compensated for. You have to use the brake, usually the rear brake, just as you're almost ready to put your foot down. A left-side brake lever would help in this case, if you could un-learn normal clutch response.
There is no "sudden" disengagement. You are thinking maybe CVT scooter behaviour. In addition, if you are not using the rear brake to modulate a smooth stop on any motorcycle, then be careful.
Finally, I have not experienced nor read about any experienced rider "unlearning" clutch management. If people are suggesting this, maybe they should re-evaluate their own riding abilities and the safety of others on public roads.
Thank you and finally
Gonna wait patently and see if any long term improvement ...or it will need a dual clutch pack replacement..++ ?
Honda is not keen and very stubborn to admit malfunctions...just saying.
[url=http://cb1100forum.com/forum/member.php?action=profile&uid=3454]PB - not sure if you read it well, but Honda is having issues with late model ECU firmware - whether on manual or DCT bikes. It is about throttle management. Gearbox is not relevant. In fact, some manual gearbox owners are afraid of their cable-free throttle.
In terms of DCT durability, some owners in Germany are reporting over 400,000 kms usage without issue.
Will wait anyhow.
Wait for what [url=http://cb1100forum.com/forum/member.php?action=profile&uid=3454]PB? An electric motorcycle like the Zero SR/F?
Cost of entry seems prohibitive to most riders.
All else is time-testing technology that will eventually be legislated out.
Wait for what [url=http://cb1100forum.com/forum/member.php?action=profile&uid=3454]PB? An electric motorcycle like the Zero SR/F?
....
...waiting for the next 2023 season as this one is soon ending for me.
Not interested in e-bikes, even if it were given to me for free.
It is just as well since the CB1100 (or CB1100s in your case) will always pack that riding experience one expects every time they mount the saddle. You already have it.
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(10-11-2022, 04:28 AM)The ferret_imp Wrote: (10-11-2022, 01:49 AM)GoldOxide_imp Wrote: (10-11-2022, 01:31 AM)The ferret_imp Wrote: Clutches can have purposes, but when you think about it, Honda sells a lot of DCT bikes that don't have manual clutches and I can tell you from experience that they can be ridden in a sporty manner.
The big difference between a DCT and an electric, or a CVT, all without manual clutches is the ability to upshift or downshift with the DCT just like a manual clutch bike with an up and down quickshifter.
An electric is most like a CVT where there is a direct connect power to drivetrain with no interruptions, although the electric is the most direct.
talking about riding an electric in a sporting manner, they race electrics in a MotoGP format, called MotoE.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpSdD4wYEAQ
like MotoGP bikes, once rolling there is no need for a manual clutch
Fantastic. Spectators probably don't need earplugs either.
Fantastic. Spectators probably don't need earplugs either.
Like watching MotoGP on Mute
(10-11-2022, 04:24 AM)GoldOxide_imp Wrote: (10-11-2022, 03:57 AM)misterprofessionality_imp Wrote: (10-11-2022, 03:46 AM)GoldOxide_imp Wrote: (10-11-2022, 03:37 AM)peterbaron_imp Wrote: (10-11-2022, 03:29 AM)GoldOxide_imp Wrote: (10-11-2022, 02:54 AM)peterbaron_imp Wrote: (10-11-2022, 02:13 AM)GoldOxide_imp Wrote: I am able to ride all the Honda DCTs I had as well as all my classic clutch-based motorcycles at slow speeds. The rider must ultimately understand their machine and control it.
In terms of "jerkiness", Honda is currently doing recalls with clutch-based motorcycles (several models) and model year 202x DCT-based models for an ECU firmware update to address this. This had everything to do with cable-free throttle management whether or not it was manual clutch control or DCT-based.
Electric motorcycles will be perfected to meet a variety of riding preferences. It is all motion control system engineering. The customer will just continuously feedback their requirements to improve the product.
Thank you and finally
Gonna wait patently and see if any long term improvement ...or it will need a dual clutch pack replacement..++ ?
Honda is not keen and very stubborn to admit malfunctions...just saying.
Thank you and finally
Gonna wait patently and see if any long term improvement ...or it will need a dual clutch pack replacement..++ ?
Honda is not keen and very stubborn to admit malfunctions...just saying.
[url=http://cb1100forum.com/forum/member.php?action=profile&uid=3454]PB - not sure if you read it well, but Honda is having issues with late model ECU firmware - whether on manual or DCT bikes. It is about throttle management. Gearbox is not relevant. In fact, some manual gearbox owners are afraid of their cable-free throttle.
In terms of DCT durability, some owners in Germany are reporting over 400,000 kms usage without issue.
(10-11-2022, 03:17 AM)pekingduck_imp Wrote: When the throttle is let off on a DCT, as it slows to a walking pace, it will suddenly disengage the engine braking by disengaging the clutch. It's this deficiency that has to be compensated for. You have to use the brake, usually the rear brake, just as you're almost ready to put your foot down. A left-side brake lever would help in this case, if you could un-learn normal clutch response.
There is no "sudden" disengagement. You are thinking maybe CVT scooter behaviour. In addition, if you are not using the rear brake to modulate a smooth stop on any motorcycle, then be careful.
Finally, I have not experienced nor read about any experienced rider "unlearning" clutch management. If people are suggesting this, maybe they should re-evaluate their own riding abilities and the safety of others on public roads.
Thank you and finally
Gonna wait patently and see if any long term improvement ...or it will need a dual clutch pack replacement..++ ?
Honda is not keen and very stubborn to admit malfunctions...just saying.
[url=http://cb1100forum.com/forum/member.php?action=profile&uid=3454]PB - not sure if you read it well, but Honda is having issues with late model ECU firmware - whether on manual or DCT bikes. It is about throttle management. Gearbox is not relevant. In fact, some manual gearbox owners are afraid of their cable-free throttle.
In terms of DCT durability, some owners in Germany are reporting over 400,000 kms usage without issue.
Will wait anyhow.
Wait for what [url=http://cb1100forum.com/forum/member.php?action=profile&uid=3454]PB? An electric motorcycle like the Zero SR/F?
Cost of entry seems prohibitive to most riders.
All else is time-testing technology that will eventually be legislated out.
That won't be true forever. I think the EV Bike market as a whole is just holding its breath for the big 4 to enter the market. as soon as they do it's going to be EVs everywhere.
That won't be true forever. I think the EV Bike market as a whole is just holding its breath for the big 4 to enter the market. as soon as they do it's going to be EVs everywhere.
Yes, agreed. Infrastructure support is key too. If a swappable battery standard becomes real and successfully adopted, I think you'll see riders having classics and an electric in their garage.
That won't be true forever. I think the EV Bike market as a whole is just holding its breath for the big 4 to enter the market. as soon as they do it's going to be EVs everywhere.
Yes, agreed. Infrastructure support is key too. If a swappable battery standard becomes real and successfully adopted, I think you'll see riders having classics and an electric in their garage.
When I said batteries were the problem that is what I was talking about,. The major 4 aren't going to jump into it real heavy until they can decide on what batteries format they can agree on. They are not going to branch out on their own with battery tech.
This is the genius of a company like Tesla. You think they sell cars? think again. They sell batteries and chargers. The cars are just there to get you excited about electric cars. The same goes for the motorcycles. The big 4 are going to essentially have to bow to battery and charger tech already established by Tesla, even though Tesla doesn't even make bikes. They don't **want** to, but they will. Right now they're just exploring other options so that they don't have to be beholden to another battery manufacturer for standards and practices. Case in point: the Charger ports on the Live Wire and the Zero are the same IIRC....the same as a tesla. go figure.
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e-bike Free? I 'd take one in a heartbeat.
Heck I've owned 2 strokes and 4 strokes, singles, twins (Parallel and V), triples, and fours (inline and transverse), autos, 3 speeds, 4 speeds, 5 speeds and 6 speeds, right hand shift, left hand shift and belly shift, hand clutch, foot clutch,and no clutch CVT's and a DCT. Chain drive, belt drive and shaft drive, air cooled, air-oil cooled and liquid cooled.
I think it would be awesome to own an electric motorcycle before I give up riding.
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