The Case of the Too-powerful bike

[Stichill_imp]

There are several things that can happen when HP goes up:
[ul] [li]Bike gets heavier[/li] [li]Bike gets longer[/li] [li]Bike gets taller[/li] [li]Fuel tank gets bigger[/li] [li]Tires get wider[/li] [li]Brakes get larger / lever effort increases[/li] [li]Clutch gets heavier / lever effort increases[/li] [li]Engine heat increases
[/li][/ul] What this all means when put together is that a big part of the fun of a motorcycle — nimbleness — is lost in the effort to generate and manage higher HP.

I seem to always have more fun riding my CBR250R than I do any other bike. Yes, I've had bikes that are more comfortable or have much better passing power, but nothing to me so far beats a small-bore bike for riding engagement. What ferret calls "work" — twisting the throttle repeatedly and shifting up/down in response to conditions to manage speed and momentum — is what I call rider involvement in the craft of motorcycling.

Your last sentence resonates with me, especially the last phrase.

Your last sentence resonates with me, especially the last phrase.


My CBR250R has maybe 23 HP which to be honest is definitely on the lower extreme of what's pragmatic. The ideal small bike power would probably be in the 30-35 HP range. Low enough to remain small and lightweight but high enough to eliminate the need to work the engine at its limits continuously.

There are several things that can happen when HP goes up:
[ul] [li]Bike gets heavier[/li] [li]Bike gets longer[/li] [li]Bike gets taller[/li] [li]Fuel tank gets bigger[/li] [li]Tires get wider[/li] [li]Brakes get larger / lever effort increases[/li] [li]Clutch gets heavier / lever effort increases[/li] [li]Engine heat increases
[/li][/ul] What this all means when put together is that a big part of the fun of a motorcycle — nimbleness — is lost in the effort to generate and manage higher HP.

I seem to always have more fun riding my CBR250R than I do any other bike. Yes, I've had bikes that are more comfortable or have much better passing power, but nothing to me so far beats a small-bore bike for riding engagement. What ferret calls "work" — twisting the throttle repeatedly and shifting up/down in response to conditions to manage speed and momentum — is what I call rider involvement in the craft of motorcycling.

I can appreciate that. I really can. I've been there. Probably from 1965 up until the late 80s I was there. Can't imagine how many times I've twisted the throttle repeatedly, shifting up/down in response to conditions to manage speed and momentum. Hitting apexes, strafing turns, trail braking, side slipping, drafting, banging the swinging needle off the red line on the tach, braking hard, locking them up, sliding, counter steering. I'm certainly no stranger to the joy that kind of riding can provide to the so inclined.... BTDT a million times. Not to mention 10 years of racing Moto-X. I just ride a little differently now that I have a little age on me. I no longer need that extreme adrenelin rush to enjoy motorcycling. After 54 years of almost daily riding, I'm as happy now at 4000 rpms as I used to be at 9000 rpms. Don' t need the scares and close calls, being thankful for having survived that last fast run. It's why I appreciate bikes like the CB 1100 so much. It's a fun bike to ride easy. Shift if I want...don't shift if I don't feel like it. I don't have to work at riding, I just ride. Riding easier and enjoying it as much as ever.

There are several things that can happen when HP goes up:
[ul] [li]Bike gets heavier[/li] [li]Bike gets longer[/li] [li]Bike gets taller[/li] [li]Fuel tank gets bigger[/li] [li]Tires get wider[/li] [li]Brakes get larger / lever effort increases[/li] [li]Clutch gets heavier / lever effort increases[/li] [li]Engine heat increases
[/li][/ul] What this all means when put together is that a big part of the fun of a motorcycle — nimbleness — is lost in the effort to generate and manage higher HP.

I seem to always have more fun riding my CBR250R than I do any other bike. Yes, I've had bikes that are more comfortable or have much better passing power, but nothing to me so far beats a small-bore bike for riding engagement. What ferret calls "work" — twisting the throttle repeatedly and shifting up/down in response to conditions to manage speed and momentum — is what I call rider involvement in the craft of motorcycling.

I can appreciate that. I really can. I've been there. Probably from 1965 up until the late 80s I was there. Can't imagine how many times I've twisted the throttle repeatedly, shifting up/down in response to conditions to manage speed and momentum. Hitting apexes, strafing turns, trail braking, side slipping, drafting, banging the swinging needle off the red line on the tach, braking hard, locking them up, sliding, counter steering. I'm certainly no stranger to the joy that kind of riding can provide to the so inclined.... BTDT a million times. Not to mention 10 years of racing Moto-X. I just ride a little differently now that I have a little age on me. I no longer need that extreme adrenelin rush to enjoy motorcycling. After 54 years of almost daily riding, I'm as happy now at 4000 rpms as I used to be at 9000 rpms. Don' t need the scares and close calls, being thankful for having survived that last fast run. It's why I appreciate bikes like the CB 1100 so much. It's a fun bike to ride easy. Shift if I want...don't shift if I don't feel like it. I don't have to work at riding, I just ride. Riding easier and enjoying it as much as ever.

It's all about what gives each rider the pleasure and satisfaction they're looking for.

[GoldOxide_imp]

There are several things that can happen when HP goes up:
[ul] [li]Bike gets heavier[/li] [li]Bike gets longer[/li] [li]Bike gets taller[/li] [li]Fuel tank gets bigger[/li] [li]Tires get wider[/li] [li]Brakes get larger / lever effort increases[/li] [li]Clutch gets heavier / lever effort increases[/li] [li]Engine heat increases
[/li][/ul] What this all means when put together is that a big part of the fun of a motorcycle — nimbleness — is lost in the effort to generate and manage higher HP.

I seem to always have more fun riding my CBR250R than I do any other bike. Yes, I've had bikes that are more comfortable or have much better passing power, but nothing to me so far beats a small-bore bike for riding engagement. What ferret calls "work" — twisting the throttle repeatedly and shifting up/down in response to conditions to manage speed and momentum — is what I call rider involvement in the craft of motorcycling.

Your last sentence resonates with me, especially the last phrase.

Your last sentence resonates with me, especially the last phrase.


My CBR250R has maybe 23 HP which to be honest is definitely on the lower extreme of what's pragmatic. The ideal small bike power would probably be in the 30-35 HP range. Low enough to remain small and lightweight but high enough to eliminate the need to work the engine at its limits continuously.

There are several things that can happen when HP goes up:
[ul] [li]Bike gets heavier[/li] [li]Bike gets longer[/li] [li]Bike gets taller[/li] [li]Fuel tank gets bigger[/li] [li]Tires get wider[/li] [li]Brakes get larger / lever effort increases[/li] [li]Clutch gets heavier / lever effort increases[/li] [li]Engine heat increases
[/li][/ul] What this all means when put together is that a big part of the fun of a motorcycle — nimbleness — is lost in the effort to generate and manage higher HP.

I seem to always have more fun riding my CBR250R than I do any other bike. Yes, I've had bikes that are more comfortable or have much better passing power, but nothing to me so far beats a small-bore bike for riding engagement. What ferret calls "work" — twisting the throttle repeatedly and shifting up/down in response to conditions to manage speed and momentum — is what I call rider involvement in the craft of motorcycling.

I can appreciate that. I really can. I've been there. Probably from 1965 up until the late 80s I was there. Can't imagine how many times I've twisted the throttle repeatedly, shifting up/down in response to conditions to manage speed and momentum. Hitting apexes, strafing turns, trail braking, side slipping, drafting, banging the swinging needle off the red line on the tach, braking hard, locking them up, sliding, counter steering. I'm certainly no stranger to the joy that kind of riding can provide to the so inclined.... BTDT a million times. Not to mention 10 years of racing Moto-X. I just ride a little differently now that I have a little age on me. I no longer need that extreme adrenelin rush to enjoy motorcycling. After 54 years of almost daily riding, I'm as happy now at 4000 rpms as I used to be at 9000 rpms. Don' t need the scares and close calls, being thankful for having survived that last fast run. It's why I appreciate bikes like the CB 1100 so much. It's a fun bike to ride easy. Shift if I want...don't shift if I don't feel like it. I don't have to work at riding, I just ride. Riding easier and enjoying it as much as ever.

There are several things that can happen when HP goes up:
[ul] [li]Bike gets heavier[/li] [li]Bike gets longer[/li] [li]Bike gets taller[/li] [li]Fuel tank gets bigger[/li] [li]Tires get wider[/li] [li]Brakes get larger / lever effort increases[/li] [li]Clutch gets heavier / lever effort increases[/li] [li]Engine heat increases
[/li][/ul] What this all means when put together is that a big part of the fun of a motorcycle — nimbleness — is lost in the effort to generate and manage higher HP.

I seem to always have more fun riding my CBR250R than I do any other bike. Yes, I've had bikes that are more comfortable or have much better passing power, but nothing to me so far beats a small-bore bike for riding engagement. What ferret calls "work" — twisting the throttle repeatedly and shifting up/down in response to conditions to manage speed and momentum — is what I call rider involvement in the craft of motorcycling.

I can appreciate that. I really can. I've been there. Probably from 1965 up until the late 80s I was there. Can't imagine how many times I've twisted the throttle repeatedly, shifting up/down in response to conditions to manage speed and momentum. Hitting apexes, strafing turns, trail braking, side slipping, drafting, banging the swinging needle off the red line on the tach, braking hard, locking them up, sliding, counter steering. I'm certainly no stranger to the joy that kind of riding can provide to the so inclined.... BTDT a million times. Not to mention 10 years of racing Moto-X. I just ride a little differently now that I have a little age on me. I no longer need that extreme adrenelin rush to enjoy motorcycling. After 54 years of almost daily riding, I'm as happy now at 4000 rpms as I used to be at 9000 rpms. Don' t need the scares and close calls, being thankful for having survived that last fast run. It's why I appreciate bikes like the CB 1100 so much. It's a fun bike to ride easy. Shift if I want...don't shift if I don't feel like it. I don't have to work at riding, I just ride. Riding easier and enjoying it as much as ever.

It's all about what gives each rider the pleasure and satisfaction they're looking for.

Similar thoughts passed through my mind once when considering putting a 278 cc single, 25 hp through routine freeway duties. I felt 40 hp might be a fairer minimum, but usable start. Of course at the low end, one is filling the tank once a year ... kidding of course, but certainly less often.

[zirconxi_imp]

My guess is, for manufacturer, its more of the Marketing purpose when it come to HP. The majority buyer will always want more HP for every penny they spend. They can throw in more gadgets, more electronics, but if the HP is too low, people will tend to go for a higher HP bike in the same price range. For usage wise, its a different story for everyone. Some like the more effort needed in riding low HP bike, some like the thrills of high HP, some like to have extras whenever they need it, some like the wilds untameable, some like it dosmesticated. In other words, its safe for Manufacturer to give more HP, rather than too low compare to competitor. More Horsepower, happy salesmans, easy to get customers. Too low, salesman need more effort in convincing customer. Personally for me, anything below 0.25hp/kg is not suitable for freeways (not suitable doesn't mean not able). anything above 0.5hp/kg is not going to be fully ultilized riding in town. But anyway, its just like if I am a millionaire, doesn't means i need to spend all my money, right, so, i still believe more HP = happier rider, even i didn't utilized 30% of what's available. Now, that's where i believe CB need to improve.. more HP please..

[Wisedrum]

The horsepower discussion within a motorbike is a very personal one. The 3 bikes I own nearly double the hp from one to the other, from the weakest, Bullet, to the strongest one, CB. Also their cubic inches increase and the torque. 27-48-90 PS. All are fun to ride in their own specific way. Yesterday I did a trip with each of them and can confirm this statement once again. All are in a way not exactly but similar geared. So most of the time I ride between 2.000-4.000rpm. Means up to 120km/h. Sometimes a little faster with the stronger bikes. Acceleration is not of any great interest for me. I mostly let all bikes work their speed up commod, don't like to ride as to be shot out of a gun. It also doesn't wear parts out too fast and keep fuel consumption on the lower side. If you ride a lot of km per year, this also counts too. At least for me.

The longer I ride motorbikes, for many many years now, I come to the conclusion, it is not the horsepower and amount of torque or cubic inches or the weight and size, that makes a bike more or less enjoyable to ride, it is the way how the engine is build and how it "talks, communicate" to the rider optically and ridingwise. Again at least for me. So I choosed the ones which speak my language and I can afford.

Wisedrum

[GoldOxide_imp]

Wisedrum - amen.