Divided we fall

[shdwghst457_imp]

Chip, I'm glad to hear a positive outlook on American-made quality. I know we don't do a good job with our cars. Everyone seems to know that GM makes shoddy products, but still buy them blindly. It's that that I don't understand.

Also, I think you read the first line of my statement in a different tone than I meant to exert; I'm saying that Japanese cars are excellent and are a much better alternative to vehicles such as Kia (which you're indicating is stylized as KIA, and I'll take your word for it).

I respectfully disagree with your comment about Ford's quality; my wife worked for many years at a plaintiff's firm that mostly handled injuries caused by vehicular defects, and Ford comes in strongly in the number one position for flawed vehicles. I recall one anecdote where, before entering the court room, a paralegal was asked to take the roof of a Ford vehicle to the judge and flex it in front of him. She, being a smaller woman, was sure she wouldn't be able to do so, and was disgusted at how easy it in fact was. Ford shaves that metal to a grade just thicker than aluminum foil for the sake of saving weight. There's also the abysmally narrow Explorer that's certainly claimed more lives than any other SUV, particularly any still in production.

As far as bikes go, a Rocket III Roadster and (hopefully) my dad's '74 850 Commando (currently owned by my uncle) will be mine, as well as many other bikes that have caught my eye. I'd even like to test ride a Forty Eight, even if Sportsters are apparently not "real" H-Ds.

[grover_imp]

I'm with you, Chip, I'll take one of each!! I don't understand any intention to "shame" someone who shares your passion.

The only thing I can think is- there are true motorcyclists that absolutely love riding and everything that goes with it, and there are people in search of a lifestyle and all the peripheral "cool" cultish fervor around it. Those people seem primarily concerned with riding the bike 2 miles to the nearest watering hole where they can hang out with other "bikers" and get loaded before testing the crash-worthiness of their do rags.

grover


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Firstfour_imp]

FWIW regarding HD quality, IIRC in the recent Cycle World long-term test, one called a Switchback had parts break/fall off. Maybe they just got the rare bad one, but that's more Tradition than I'd want to put up with.

I'll also mention that in my neighborhood, several guys have Harleys, Road Kings I think, who are absolute gentlemen, and ride them from FL to NC or Sturgis or whatever. Real motorcyclists, with no surly pretentiousness whatsoever. And my lawn guy has one, and he's the nicest, most genuine person you could ever meet. He's even invited me to come along with him to ride the Dragon-on my Honda! Crazy! So it seems it's only a nasty, insecure subset of HD owners who are a PITA.

[AzBob_imp]

Chip, I'm glad to hear a positive outlook on American-made quality. I know we don't do a good job with our cars. Everyone seems to know that GM makes shoddy products, but still buy them blindly. It's that that I don't understand.

Also, I think you read the first line of my statement in a different tone than I meant to exert; I'm saying that Japanese cars are excellent and are a much better alternative to vehicles such as Kia (which you're indicating is stylized as KIA, and I'll take your word for it).

I respectfully disagree with your comment about Ford's quality; my wife worked for many years at a plaintiff's firm that mostly handled injuries caused by vehicular defects, and Ford comes in strongly in the number one position for flawed vehicles. I recall one anecdote where, before entering the court room, a paralegal was asked to take the roof of a Ford vehicle to the judge and flex it in front of him. She, being a smaller woman, was sure she wouldn't be able to do so, and was disgusted at how easy it in fact was. Ford shaves that metal to a grade just thicker than aluminum foil for the sake of saving weight. There's also the abysmally narrow Explorer that's certainly claimed more lives than any other SUV, particularly any still in production.

As far as bikes go, a Rocket III Roadster and (hopefully) my dad's '74 850 Commando (currently owned by my uncle) will be mine, as well as many other bikes that have caught my eye. I'd even like to test ride a Forty Eight, even if Sportsters are apparently not "real" H-Ds.

"Everyone knows..." the start of many a fallacy.

Quote:I recall one anecdote where, before entering the court room, a paralegal was asked to take the roof of a Ford vehicle to the judge and flex it in front of him. She, being a smaller woman, was sure she wouldn't be able to do so, and was disgusted at how easy it in fact was. Ford shaves that metal to a grade just thicker than aluminum foil for the sake of saving weight.
So does every manufacturer. It is completely useless to waste material on the roof skin. The cross member that is part of the unitized body underneath that skin is where the strength comes from.

Quote:There's also the abysmally narrow Explorer that's certainly claimed more lives than any other SUV, particularly any still in production.
Have you seen an Explorer lately? It's not even remotely related (other than in name) to the thing that Ford first introduced ~1990. If you're referring to roll-over risk (I have to assume, since you made sure to mention it was "abysmally narrow"), that had nothing at all to do with the design of the Explorer, but rather the recommended tire pressures printed on the door jam, and is the main culprit in you and I now paying extra for government-mandated tire pressure monitoring systems in passenger vehicles. The early '90's Ford Explorer was barely an inch narrower than its main competition, the Chevy Blazer, meaning, it wasn't particularly narrow at all.
I like all bikes; all riders on the other hand...

Weirdly, and pertinent to this post, my wife used to work in a biker bar and knows quite a few of the guys you folks would call the "pirates" or people wearing costumes (Lord knows *I* look like a Power Ranger in my Alpinestars gear) and I have met many, many of these guys. So many of them are unbelievably nice, would help you with anything in the world (I recall a bunch showed up at a friend of a friend's place after her house had burned down offering free furniture, food, etc.), and don't give a rat's ass about the kind of bike you ride. Many started riding a small displacement Honda themselves because Harley's are simply too expensive a bike to start riding on.

Let's try not to tar & feather an entire group of folks simply because they ride a certain bike not like ours, kind of like that lady did to the OP.

That being said, there is a certain group of self-righteous a$$hole whose ego is so wrapped up in their brand of their [insert motorcycle, watch, shoes, sunglasses, whatever) that they can't fathom some other competing product could ever come close to, or possibly surpass, the qualities of their chosen brand. These people are complete dickheads and they exist for every brand that exists so just ignore them and move on with enjoying your ride and let them waste time hating.

[ss2wheels_imp]

The bottom line is that machines are not the problem at all,it is the uninformed idiots that buy them for the wrong reasons.I would bet that most of us on this forum know how to work on our bikes and we know alot about many brands of bikes.It is fact that most HD owners have no clue of the high % of Japanese parts on thier beloved american machines.You all know that many HD owners are stuck up A--Holes! I have never felt this way about owners of any other brand from any other country.It has always been HD and everything else.I say many and not all because you guys that own HDs and foriegn bikes know that you do not fit in the HD or nothing group.Ride on brothers and sisters.

[Cormanus]

There's petrol threads, tyre threads, RLET threads, (God forbid) oil threads, and let's-kick-the-kapok-out-of-Harley-riders threads ...

[Todd_K_imp]

There's petrol threads, tyre threads, RLET threads, (God forbid) oil threads, and let's-kick-the-kapok-out-of-Harley-riders threads ...

....but they started it!

[SeaFlea_imp]

Greetings all, I think its a self-generated mind-set. When somebody spends 18,19.....25 thousand dollars on a motorcycle they have to believe it was a worthwhile purchase. They seek out like-minded people and a "click" is formed. When they look at me riding my 8K Honda CB1100 they think I'm someone thats not really serious about Motorcycle riding. I do believe they have to justify their expenditure by following the pack. Get the jacket, boots, dew rag, wallet........
What they don't get is I just like to ride. I don't have to emulate anybody or anything other than myself. I ride a Honda because I like the way it looks, sounds, and that fact thats its a very reliable machine.

We each like different bikes for a variety of personal reasons. Find the one you like and ride, ride, ride. If you want to pretend you're part of the Wild Ones, go for it! Just get out of my way and we'll get along fine.

Good Rides, SeaFlea.

[bubblerboy64_imp]

I think we have to be very careful to not link bad behavior to any other commonality what ever it may be.

Easy to do and we all tend to make judgements. I am as guilty as the next person.

People do dumb stuff some times. Can't judge a book by it's cover and you certainly can't tell a thing about a person by the bike they ride.

[ChipBeck_imp]

Chip, I'm glad to hear a positive outlook on American-made quality. I know we don't do a good job with our cars. Everyone seems to know that GM makes shoddy products, but still buy them blindly. It's that that I don't understand.

Also, I think you read the first line of my statement in a different tone than I meant to exert; I'm saying that Japanese cars are excellent and are a much better alternative to vehicles such as Kia (which you're indicating is stylized as KIA, and I'll take your word for it).

I respectfully disagree with your comment about Ford's quality; my wife worked for many years at a plaintiff's firm that mostly handled injuries caused by vehicular defects, and Ford comes in strongly in the number one position for flawed vehicles. I recall one anecdote where, before entering the court room, a paralegal was asked to take the roof of a Ford vehicle to the judge and flex it in front of him. She, being a smaller woman, was sure she wouldn't be able to do so, and was disgusted at how easy it in fact was. Ford shaves that metal to a grade just thicker than aluminum foil for the sake of saving weight. There's also the abysmally narrow Explorer that's certainly claimed more lives than any other SUV, particularly any still in production.

As far as bikes go, a Rocket III Roadster and (hopefully) my dad's '74 850 Commando (currently owned by my uncle) will be mine, as well as many other bikes that have caught my eye. I'd even like to test ride a Forty Eight, even if Sportsters are apparently not "real" H-Ds.

"Everyone knows..." the start of many a fallacy.

Quote:I recall one anecdote where, before entering the court room, a paralegal was asked to take the roof of a Ford vehicle to the judge and flex it in front of him. She, being a smaller woman, was sure she wouldn't be able to do so, and was disgusted at how easy it in fact was. Ford shaves that metal to a grade just thicker than aluminum foil for the sake of saving weight.
So does every manufacturer. It is completely useless to waste material on the roof skin. The cross member that is part of the unitized body underneath that skin is where the strength comes from.

Quote:There's also the abysmally narrow Explorer that's certainly claimed more lives than any other SUV, particularly any still in production.
Have you seen an Explorer lately? It's not even remotely related (other than in name) to the thing that Ford first introduced ~1990. If you're referring to roll-over risk (I have to assume, since you made sure to mention it was "abysmally narrow"), that had nothing at all to do with the design of the Explorer, but rather the recommended tire pressures printed on the door jam, and is the main culprit in you and I now paying extra for government-mandated tire pressure monitoring systems in passenger vehicles. The early '90's Ford Explorer was barely an inch narrower than its main competition, the Chevy Blazer, meaning, it wasn't particularly narrow at all.
I like all bikes; all riders on the other hand...

Weirdly, and pertinent to this post, my wife used to work in a biker bar and knows quite a few of the guys you folks would call the "pirates" or people wearing costumes (Lord knows *I* look like a Power Ranger in my Alpinestars gear) and I have met many, many of these guys. So many of them are unbelievably nice, would help you with anything in the world (I recall a bunch showed up at a friend of a friend's place after her house had burned down offering free furniture, food, etc.), and don't give a rat's ass about the kind of bike you ride. Many started riding a small displacement Honda themselves because Harley's are simply too expensive a bike to start riding on.

Let's try not to tar & feather an entire group of folks simply because they ride a certain bike not like ours, kind of like that lady did to the OP.

That being said, there is a certain group of self-righteous a$$hole whose ego is so wrapped up in their brand of their [insert motorcycle, watch, shoes, sunglasses, whatever) that they can't fathom some other competing product could ever come close to, or possibly surpass, the qualities of their chosen brand. These people are complete dickheads and they exist for every brand that exists so just ignore them and move on with enjoying your ride and let them waste time hating.

AzBob,

You probably live real close to me. I'd like to buy you cocktails sometime. What a great post you put up. Thanks for taking the time to write that. Right on bro.

Chip